PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets?

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FastBikerBoy
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Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2012/04/15 02:27:46 (permalink)
for example, the Photoshop-like "grabber tool" that allows complete freedom in navigating the workspace, with 360 degrees of movement, in any situation where we currently are forced to use the damn scroll bars to move around.
That's existed for several versions, it's called the navigator. Access by pressing Alt+Shift+8.

HTH
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John
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Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2012/04/15 02:30:41 (permalink)
Also I use a tilt wheel mouse to navigate X1. And did I say I also use a CS too?



Best
John
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Lunatique
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Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2012/04/15 02:40:34 (permalink)
John


So you are saying we need a Lunatic running CW? OK



In this day and age, it takes someone who's a bit crazy to really make a difference. ;)

Do I really think I can do a better job? I honestly don't know, because there are things going behind the scenes I can't know right now. I've worked in video game development and CG animation at the top level, so I'm no stranger to software development and complex production pipelines. But who know? Maybe if I ran Cakewalk's software development, I'll make some of users very happy, but end up pissing off the rest. There's also a chance that I can completely transform cakewalk--it can go either way. 


Anyway, I'm really just venting my frustrations. 



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Lunatique
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Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2012/04/15 02:42:59 (permalink)
FastBikerBoy


for example, the Photoshop-like "grabber tool" that allows complete freedom in navigating the workspace, with 360 degrees of movement, in any situation where we currently are forced to use the damn scroll bars to move around.
That's existed for several versions, it's called the navigator. Access by pressing Alt+Shift+8.

HTH

Not the same thing at all. Not even close. I've already had this discussion in this forum about it. The Navigator is like an alien cousin of the grabber tool (and more like Photoshop's Navigator tool), but it's not the same at all. For one, it's useless in the pianoroll, where we most need such a tool to navigate a complex arrangement that spans many octaves, without constantly changing the zoom level. 

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FastBikerBoy
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Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2012/04/15 02:45:44 (permalink)
Sorry I mis-understood. Guess it didn't help at all then.
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John
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Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2012/04/15 03:05:56 (permalink)
There was an area in Logic 4 and 5 at the bottom far left that when clicked on would move the entire arrange area in any direction. It took me a long time to stumble over it (it was not documented) but it was handy.

I have an idea what Lunatique is talking about. Of most DAWs that I have used I like the way Sonar, X1 navigates. However, if CW could add that same ability Logic had in much the same way I would not be displeased. One has to remember that Logic had a different GUI that was migrated from the Atari computer. It was not a true Windows GUI.

Best
John
#36
chuckebaby
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Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2012/04/15 07:23:58 (permalink)
Lunatique


So now it's well over a year later, and still nothing's been done about global screenset option? Instead, Cakewalk spends its time developing audio effects, rather than work on workflow key issues that are far more vital to the user experience? Why the hell would we want more and more audio effects when there are plenty of options on the market already, of cheap yet high quality effects suite that we can easily afford? We can buy third-party effects but we can't buy a better workflow--unless we abandon the software altogether.

If that's not a company with its head stuck in its own ass, then I don't know what is. How effing hard could it possible be to implement a global screenset option? Looks like Cakewalk is just being stubborn, thinking they know better than the users what the users themselves want. If they indeed do have such clairvoyant ability like that of Steve Jobs/Apple, then Cakewalk wouldn't be what it is now. 

The most useful features I have continually begged for for since years ago are still nowhere to be found--ones that I feel do have the clairvoyant quality of Jobs/Apple, where even though the user base might not have thought of it, will become extremely popular once implemented (for example, the Photoshop-like "grabber tool" that allows complete freedom in navigating the workspace, with 360 degrees of movement, in any situation where we currently are forced to use the damn scroll bars to move around).

The best software development teams understand that flexibility and customizability is key to a good product, especially when it comes to any kind of complex software where the workflow will make or break the experience. 

I swear, if I ran Cakewalk as its head of development, I'd completely change the way Cakewalk is run. 

cakewalk is a business and there effects and expantion modules bring in revenue not fixing a global screenset.
im sure there going to incorperate something in the near future but who are you or i or anyone else to sit here and say this is an easy fix for cakewalk and they should have just thrown it out in a patch.i admire your passion to get things right but you also need to be sensable,calling out the very business you use to do your work?..thats not right,have you sent in a feature request?,im guessing not.but yet you want it to be widely known in here hoping someone from cake will take notice and make a change.
like i said,i admire your passion,but your post is off the hook.

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#37
ba_midi
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Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2012/04/15 07:28:16 (permalink)
FastBikerBoy


MaharishiPuppyChow


I agree with Lunatique. I'm now experiencing this same irritation in Sonar X1 Producer Expanded. I went from having two 19" monitors, to a 32" HDMI, and now have to redrag my output strips into position on over 650 separate projects (individually), then.... I can save them like that. Why can't Sonar have a (Lock-to-all-projects) screenset function ? You can unlock it when you want to add or delete them. I'm busy for the next solid week doing computer maintenance to my projects now. 


You can import screensets from an existing project. You need to set the option to allow two projects open together first. Then open the source project, then a target project and in the target select "Import screensets from source project" from the Screenset menu. If there's any screensets in the target  project you don't want over-written lock them first.

I agree that there could be & should be a more elegant way of loading screensets. Personally, I don't want 'global' screensets though. I do not want a situation where changing a screenset in one project changes the corresponding ss in all projects. For example, I frequently hide and unhide tracks as I archive them in projects and finding that track 3 through 7 have suddenly been hidden in every project will create chaos for me and I suspect most people. That is how I would expect a truly 'global' screenset to behave and it won't suit me at all.

If they do ever go truly global I hope it's as an option, else the program would become almost unusable for me.

I wouldn't mind seeing a way to treat screensets like "presets" - which they are similar to already in many ways:  we can name them, copy them, rename them, etc.   So why not let us "save them " out to storage (hard disk, etc) aND LOAD them back in like we can most presets.

And, if they were treated like branches, as one example, or chains as another example, we could "gang" them up like a global import or a group preset/screenset.

I'm sure the CW programmers could come up with a myriad of ideas in this regard (and wonder why they haven't).

If they're saving this for some big deal "it'll be in X2" approach, I'd be somewhat upset, frankly.

There are some things that should have been in X1 or at least made available in one of the updates without it having to cost the users.  I know CW HAVE given some things in the updates without cost, and kudos for that; but I still think getting some of the basics right (which screensets are, imho) matters still.



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#38
keith
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Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2012/04/15 07:52:59 (permalink)
chuckebaby

cakewalk is a business and there effects and expantion modules bring in revenue not fixing a global screenset. 

And as a business they will fully understand the need to meet their users' requirements. A great feature half-implemented yields frustration. Frustration yields dwindling base of users, save the few diehards who are willing to stick it out in hopes of things improving "in the near future". Screenset presets -- global, per-project, defaultable, overridable, mergeable, etc. -- in the context of the the useful screensets feature seems like a no-brainer. I don't think the OP is out of line in expressing frustration.

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FastBikerBoy
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Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2012/04/15 08:11:18 (permalink)
I wouldn't mind seeing a way to treat screensets like "presets" - which they are similar to already in many ways:  we can name them, copy them, rename them, etc.   So why not let us "save them " out to storage (hard disk, etc) aND LOAD them back in like we can most presets.

And, if they were treated like branches, as one example, or chains as another example, we could "gang" them up like a global import or a group preset/screenset.

I'm sure the CW programmers could come up with a myriad of ideas in this regard (and wonder why they haven't).

If they're saving this for some big deal "it'll be in X2" approach, I'd be somewhat upset, frankly.

There are some things that should have been in X1 or at least made available in one of the updates without it having to cost the users.  I know CW HAVE given some things in the updates without cost, and kudos for that; but I still think getting some of the basics right (which screensets are, imho) matters still.

No arguments here Billy, any improvement to screensets gets my vote. I have two or three templates set up with the various screenset 'sets' that I use for varying projects but a better way to load/save and manage them will definitely be a welcome addition to a great feature.
#40
Lunatique
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Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2012/04/15 08:36:46 (permalink)
@chuckebaby - Actually, ever since version 2 or so, I have consistently used the official feature request form to submit feature requests for every new version that didn't address the issues I've kept posting about over and over in the forums every year, hoping to bring more awareness to the problems I see.
.
As for whether they need to develop audio effects in order to keep the company afloat, don't you think that the people needed to implement a global screenset option would be different from the people needed to code audio effects? One requires no knowledge of DSP algorithms, while the other does. There is no overlap between the two responsibilities.
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I don't think I'm out of line. If I want the software I use to improve, I have to be honest in my opinion--whether it's about the software or the people who make the software.
.
I have been in software development since 1998 and know what it's like to develop software that costs millions of dollars of R&D, and that sometimes you have to do things you don't want just to make ends meet. But sometimes a company needs to grabbed by the shoulders and shaken a bit to wake them up. Why do you think companies sometimes go down a one-way street of doom and end up killing themselves off? They don't do it on purpose--there's usually some kind of fallacy in judgment--be it losing sight of what's important, forgetting who their users are, being too stubbornly subjective, or bad development/business strategies, etc. Even giant companies with extensive history/experience and huge financial backing can go down in flames when they miscalculate their developmental path.
.
Maybe they are doing well financially and their strategy is right, but that doesn't change the fact there are some glaring issues with their flagship product--some that has lasted for many years and never addressed. Yes, they need to prioritize, but some missteps are so mind-boggling that I'd have put them on the priority list even if they're not ones that'll directly make them more money. It's called company pride.
.
Yes, I know I'm being kind of harsh, but this is frustration that's accumulated over the last decade. I'm not saying Cakewalk hasn't made progress--obviously they have, and they have done some things right for sure. Even some of my long-time standing feature requests are sometimes addressed, although it took them years to do it. I'm fuming now only because after seeing one Pro-Channel/effects update/expansion after another for the last year or so while core workflow issues are not addressed, just broke this camel's back.
 
post edited by Lunatique - 2012/04/17 01:44:41

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#41
FastBikerBoy
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Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2012/04/15 08:44:07 (permalink)
Personally I find the PC modules a big improvement for my workflow, which I guess just goes to show how different users have different needs.

I'd like to see some of the buss envelope bugs fixed, drum mapping and their PRV integration improved. I'd also like to see some of the newer features improved, such as screenset management. I know others want the Staff view fixed, which to me personally isn't important in the slightest. I guess there is always going to be someone who's disappointed with development decisions.
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Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2012/04/15 09:53:40 (permalink)
keith


chuckebaby

cakewalk is a business and there effects and expantion modules bring in revenue not fixing a global screenset. 

And as a business they will fully understand the need to meet their users' requirements. A great feature half-implemented yields frustration. Frustration yields dwindling base of users, save the few diehards who are willing to stick it out in hopes of things improving "in the near future". Screenset presets -- global, per-project, defaultable, overridable, mergeable, etc. -- in the context of the the useful screensets feature seems like a no-brainer. I don't think the OP is out of line in expressing frustration.

yes keith i do think hes out of line,when you start saying cakewalk has their heads up their own a%$# 
and how effing hard is it to....
i didnt say i didnt agree with his ideas nor his passion.
maybe you failed to read that post hmm?
or did you just read what you wanted to read?
theres no need to sink in to the dungeon here,id like to think we are all grown ups(or most of us)
that post also broke the tos a couple times..so thats okay to?
so you know what,this isnt the only thing that some users(even myself)would like changed,but there is a way to go about things and clearly if everytime i was upset about a feature that was dropped and important to me,am i allowed to go on a rant?
that post was a rant,it wasnt a frustrated post.
now this is all im going to say because clearly this is important for cakewalk to look at this and hopefully impliment it in the future and by me sitting here aurguing about what i thought his post was justified or not isnt the point nor isit going to help matters and frankly its just taking away from the point.

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#43
ba_midi
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Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2012/04/15 11:20:45 (permalink)
FastBikerBoy


I wouldn't mind seeing a way to treat screensets like "presets" - which they are similar to already in many ways:  we can name them, copy them, rename them, etc.   So why not let us "save them " out to storage (hard disk, etc) aND LOAD them back in like we can most presets.

And, if they were treated like branches, as one example, or chains as another example, we could "gang" them up like a global import or a group preset/screenset.

I'm sure the CW programmers could come up with a myriad of ideas in this regard (and wonder why they haven't).

If they're saving this for some big deal "it'll be in X2" approach, I'd be somewhat upset, frankly.

There are some things that should have been in X1 or at least made available in one of the updates without it having to cost the users.  I know CW HAVE given some things in the updates without cost, and kudos for that; but I still think getting some of the basics right (which screensets are, imho) matters still.

No arguments here Billy, any improvement to screensets gets my vote. I have two or three templates set up with the various screenset 'sets' that I use for varying projects but a better way to load/save and manage them will definitely be a welcome addition to a great feature.
Well thanks to all your videos and efforts to enlighten everyone about screensets, I, too, have some templates that work out nicely; but as i think most of us agree, there is room for improvement with respect to global use/access, etc.






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#44
keith
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Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2012/04/15 12:18:47 (permalink)
chuckebaby


keith


chuckebaby

cakewalk is a business and there effects and expantion modules bring in revenue not fixing a global screenset. 

And as a business they will fully understand the need to meet their users' requirements. A great feature half-implemented yields frustration. Frustration yields dwindling base of users, save the few diehards who are willing to stick it out in hopes of things improving "in the near future". Screenset presets -- global, per-project, defaultable, overridable, mergeable, etc. -- in the context of the the useful screensets feature seems like a no-brainer. I don't think the OP is out of line in expressing frustration.

yes keith i do think hes out of line,when you start saying cakewalk has their heads up their own a%$# 
and how effing hard is it to....
i didnt say i didnt agree with his ideas nor his passion.
maybe you failed to read that post hmm?
or did you just read what you wanted to read?
theres no need to sink in to the dungeon here,id like to think we are all grown ups(or most of us)
that post also broke the tos a couple times..so thats okay to?
so you know what,this isnt the only thing that some users(even myself)would like changed,but there is a way to go about things and clearly if everytime i was upset about a feature that was dropped and important to me,am i allowed to go on a rant?
that post was a rant,it wasnt a frustrated post.
now this is all im going to say because clearly this is important for cakewalk to look at this and hopefully impliment it in the future and by me sitting here aurguing about what i thought his post was justified or not isnt the point nor isit going to help matters and frankly its just taking away from the point.
 
Lunatique is a "she", if I'm not mistaken. Anyway...
 
As far as your response to my comments... there seem to be a few around here that approach Cakewalk and SONAR in particular as: "Cakewalk is doing everything they possibly can to give us the best possible solution. SONAR X1 is as good as they could have designed it, and how dare you question their decision making when it comes to allocating time and resources!".
 
Your reponse to the OP is the opitome of that attitude, IMO -- Cakewalk needs revenue (which is true), and revenue is not going to come from fixing a half-assed implementation of a feature (which is true for the bean counters, but hogwash for the customers). Yes, lack of basic file/preset management for a major functional feature is half-assed. Ooh, look at me, I dared to point out that the Decision Makers left The Emperor's preset management on the Royal Whiteboard in the conference room!
 
"so you know what,this isnt the only thing that some users(even myself)would like changed,but there is a way to go about things and clearly if everytime i was upset about a feature that was dropped and important to me,am i allowed to go on a rant? "
 
Yes, actually, you should rant. Feature request forms are only as useful as the priority they get on the other end of the chain. Besides, feature requests for individual features entirely misses the point of the OP's posts in this thread. It's not about a specific feature -- it's frustration with a culmination of years of institutionalized decision making and priority setting. "Yes, this or that should have been better designed or implemented N years ago, but we've had other priorities since then." 
 
Name one major feature introduced in the last ten years where you said to yourself: wow, they really nailed this one... it's 98% of the way there, and if it did this or that it would exceed my expectations!
 
Matrix View?
Beatscape?
Staff View?
ACT?
V-Vocal?
AudioSnap?
Automation?
ProChannel?
 
If customers want to rant, then I welcome it. It sparks healthy debate and constructive discussion amongst users... you know, the ones worried about workflow and usability, not balance sheets and quarterly reports. And hopefully gives the company useful feedback as to the general attitude of the user base, which they have been generally tuned into, IMO and IME.
#45
FastBikerBoy
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Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2012/04/15 12:29:50 (permalink)
Name one major feature introduced in the last ten years where you said to yourself: wow, they really nailed this one...

Screensets?
#46
stevec
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Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2012/04/15 12:48:10 (permalink)
Besides, feature requests for individual features entirely misses the point of the OP's posts in this thread. It's not about a specific feature

 
It's interesting how different people can read the same thing and yet get something completely different out of it.   I just re-read the OP and saw nothing *but* Screen Sets in it.  I didn't see anything resembling "all the half-baked features", just Screen Sets.  But I wasn't looking for anything either.
 
Personally, Screen Set changes would not be at the top of my list, although I wouldn't turn it down.   I would much rather see enhancements to Automation, AudioSnap/VVocal (ARA?  :-)), a "pool" feature in the Browser, "chasing" MIDI notes during playback, the ability to output a single MIDI track to multiple synths, etc.    Nothing in the current X1 stops me from doing anything, but like everything else in the world it could of course be improved.  Otherwise we'd never need an X2. 
 

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#47
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Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2012/04/15 12:51:34 (permalink)
I can't think of anything, software, hardware, instrument, literally anything, that couldn't be improved in some way, 'cos then it'd be perfect wouldn't it? Does perfection exist?

'cept screensets maybe.....
#48
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Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2012/04/15 12:51:52 (permalink)
FastBikerBoy


Name one major feature introduced in the last ten years where you said to yourself: wow, they really nailed this one...

Screensets?

I'd have to say it is YOU who nailed it - found creative ways to use their feature.  They, on the other hand, did not ;)



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stevec
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Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2012/04/15 13:02:28 (permalink)
Good point, Billy.   CW could use some of Karl's ideas as defaults!
 

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#50
ba_midi
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Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2012/04/15 13:03:22 (permalink)
FastBikerBoy


I can't think of anything, software, hardware, instrument, literally anything, that couldn't be improved in some way, 'cos then it'd be perfect wouldn't it? Does perfection exist?

'cept screensets maybe.....

I've long ago come to the conclusion we humans are perfectly imperfect. 

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ba_midi
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Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2012/04/15 13:04:27 (permalink)
stevec


Good point, Billy.   CW could use some of Karl's ideas as defaults!
 

Yep- and another reason to give us some sort of "preset" function or "save to disk" function for such things ;)



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Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2012/04/15 13:17:19 (permalink)
Billy, now both you and Steve are making me blush....
#53
ba_midi
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Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2012/04/15 15:07:59 (permalink)
FastBikerBoy


Billy, now both you and Steve are making me blush....

Heh, well, blushing is not a bad thing, and, again, you earned it well, Karl :)


Hey - how about a Blushing Screenset??  LOL 





Billy Arnell (ba-midi)

http://www.ba-midi.com/music/files
Music gives me life, so I give life Music.
Thanks for listening - Let's Dance to the rhythm of life! :)
#54
Michael Five
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Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2012/04/16 20:19:11 (permalink)
chuckebaby


keith


chuckebaby

cakewalk is a business and there effects and expantion modules bring in revenue not fixing a global screenset. 

And as a business they will fully understand the need to meet their users' requirements. A great feature half-implemented yields frustration. Frustration yields dwindling base of users, save the few diehards who are willing to stick it out in hopes of things improving "in the near future". Screenset presets -- global, per-project, defaultable, overridable, mergeable, etc. -- in the context of the the useful screensets feature seems like a no-brainer. I don't think the OP is out of line in expressing frustration.

yes keith i do think hes out of line,when you start saying cakewalk has their heads up their own a%$# 
and how effing hard is it to....



I have to agree with Keith and Luna here.  Chuck, I think you're missing that Luna's post is more than just a user venting frustration - which it is - but it's also a bit of an expert opinion from someone with professional experience doing what Cakewalk does for a living and offering a critique, which, coming from a similar background as Luna, I agree with pretty strongly.  As these things go, I don't think Sonar is a particularly good piece of software.   I don't see a reason to belabor this point, really, I have chosen to use Sonar and can make it do what I need it to, and have a pretty long-term commitment to Cake.  But I don't think we should be so quick to dismiss the point, either, when it comes up.  I think it's important feedback to the people who run development there in Boston and should be heard.  JMO...
 
 

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#55
Lunatique
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Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2012/04/17 01:50:23 (permalink)
keith



Lunatique is a "she", if I'm not mistaken. Anyway...
       
I'm actually a dude. I used to use one of my favorite photos I've ever taken as a photographer (of my wife) as my avatar, but seeing how that's confused people, I've changed it to... Oh crap. Now people think I'm a wolf that knows how to type.

Website + Blog: www.ethereality.info
#56
FastBikerBoy
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Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2012/04/17 02:11:06 (permalink)
Wow.... News... Lunatique is a typing, DAW using wolf... respect.
#57
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