PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets?

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Lunatique
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2011/01/04 04:03:14 (permalink)

PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets?

The moment I realized how the screensets are designed and implemented in X1 (not global and cannot be reused in other projects unless you import from an open project, and cannot be used with custom global key-binding for all projects), my enthusiasm for X1 fell thorough the floor and into the abyss. I cannot fathom how a development team could make that kind of mistake. Did NO ONE during the entire development cycle of X1 noticed this as a glaring problem, and no beta users noticed this either? How is this even possible?

In past versions of Sonar, I have custom layouts that I switch between on the fly that are absolutely crucial to my work (using dual displays). I jump around between them with the custom key-bindings of SHIFT+A (track + synth rack view), SHIFT+D (track + console view), SHIFT+S (track + pianoroll view), SHIFT+E (full console view), SHIFT+W (full pianoroll view). I absolutely must have this in order to work smoothly like I'm used to. The fact X1 has taken away that ability is absolutely mind-boggling. I don't mind that Cakewalk likes the idea of unique screensets for each project, but AT LEAST allow us to KEEP the global layouts if we so choose, or allow us to toggle between using project-based screensets of global screensets.

And just how is the project-based screensets better? Most people using Sonar are NOT doing a huge variety of different types of productions. People are either musicians doing tracking, mixing, mastering, or composers working with video, or FX guys doing sound design, and so on. Very, very few people do all of them, and even if they do, 10 global screensets are more than enough to cover just about anyone's needs, ESPECIALLY when many things can be tabbed. So, why then, would anyone need to have 10 unique screensets PER PROJECT, as if they are constantly doing radically different tasks every time they use Sonar? Who does Cakewalk think their target audience is? And to think we lost our global layouts views switchable with custom key-binding over this. Garrrhhh... Like I said, why not have the cake and eat it too--why does it have to be either, or? Why not give us the option to choose what we want? For an upgrade that makes a huge fuss about customizability and ergonomics, this is an embarrassment. ( I know I sound agitated, and I apologize, but this really got to me.)

Please Cakewalk. I beg you. Fix this.

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    FastBikerBoy
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    Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2011/01/04 04:31:22 (permalink)
    Not exactly global but available for every project..........

    1. Open a template
    2. Set up your 10 screensets how you want them
    3. save as template....... Normal.... Yourtemplate

    Now they are available in every project you start from that template
    #2
    Lunatique
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    Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2011/01/04 04:45:34 (permalink)
    That's a pretty simple workaround, but seeing how I have a bunch of work-in-progress projects that I want to continue in X1, I'd then have to copy those screensets from the template for all of them. I don't mind having to do that, but I still want to see this fixed, as it's one of the worst flubs I've ever witnessed any software development.

    Website + Blog: www.ethereality.info
    #3
    FastBikerBoy
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    Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2011/01/04 05:07:35 (permalink)
    Yeah I agree. I'm a huge fan of screensets. IMHO one of the best parts of X1, hugely powerful with a lateral imagination.

    Without a doubt a better way of saving/exporting and loading/importing them would be great. If they do go global though, I'd still like a local option though.
    #4
    mudgel
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    Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2011/01/04 05:16:32 (permalink)
    I haven't done anything with screensets yet.

    Would it be possible to save a normal template with a set of 10 screensets that you would use as a global arrangement and if necessary just edit any that needed changing for that particular project?
    Would that get around the problem you see?

    Mike V.   

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    #5
    Freddie H
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    Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2011/01/04 05:20:13 (permalink)
    Lunatique


    That's a pretty simple workaround, but seeing how I have a bunch of work-in-progress projects that I want to continue in X1, I'd then have to copy those screensets from the template for all of them. I don't mind having to do that, but I still want to see this fixed, as it's one of the worst flubs I've ever witnessed any software development.


    The new Screensets features in X1 work and are implemented exactly the same as in Cubase, Nuendo & Logic. I suggest you send a feature request "how" this new feature should been implemented instead.

    http://www.cakewalk.com/s.port/FeatureRequest.aspx


    Regards
    Freddie


    -Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
    #6
    CakeFan
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    Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2011/01/04 06:25:51 (permalink)
    Not only could I save and import my screen "Layouts" in Sonar & Cakewalk Pro Audio (since PA 5, I know) but I even had my favorite Layout assigned to a Key Binding and I even had a quick CAL program that would set up the file for live use including the "Layout" and save it.

    I HIGHLY doubt that Cubase, Nuendo & Logic put in such a great feature without the ability to save/import their "screensets".

    I'm sure it will be fixed in the X1b and I appreciate what Cakewalk is doing with the GUI... I do wish they would have baked it a little longer and bypassed all the negativity though.

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    #7
    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2011/01/04 07:36:29 (permalink)
    I do wish they would have baked it a little longer and bypassed all the negativity though.


    With some of the jokers on here? You must be having a laugh.


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    wetdentist
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    Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2011/01/04 08:28:19 (permalink)
    i like screensets, but only working in new projects that i have just begun in X1 after the screensets have been saved doesn't account for all the projects i am currently working on.  that's gotta get fixed, easily

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    #9
    FastBikerBoy
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    Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2011/01/04 08:32:43 (permalink)
    If you want to use your screensets in old projects, it's not difficult. Not as elegant as it could be though.

    All you have to do is open a project with your screensets already set up. Open the old project and then select "Import screensets from..." in the screenset control module. All of them are imported in one go.

    You don't even have to worry about changing the "Only allow one project at a time" option - 'cos that doesn't work anyway.
    #10
    HumbleNoise
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    Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2011/01/04 09:22:47 (permalink)
    "I absolutely must have this in order to work smoothly like I'm used to..."

    I get your frustration but X1 is definitely NOT about working like YOU used to.

    For better or worse it's been totally re-thought and re-designed and that's going to alienate a bunch of customers but not all. And believe it or not there are many users who really like the changes and haven't found the lack of global Screen Sets to be that big a deal.

    Like FBB suggests they did include a way to integrate the new Screen Sets into old projects. Could be more elegant I think but it's there.

    I'd only suggest to dive in and really use the program and see if it really is as awful as missing global screen sets at first appears.

    Humbly Yours

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    #11
    ba_midi
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    Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2011/01/04 11:05:08 (permalink)
    FastBikerBoy


    If you want to use your screensets in old projects, it's not difficult. Not as elegant as it could be though.

    All you have to do is open a project with your screensets already set up. Open the old project and then select "Import screensets from..." in the screenset control module. All of them are imported in one go.

    You don't even have to worry about changing the "Only allow one project at a time" option - 'cos that doesn't work anyway.

    I like screensets, but with there was at least ONE 'global' screenset available.   Why?
     
    Aside from working with pre-X1 projects, which is an issue, if you ever have to load a project in SAFE MODE, it's very very difficult to get a screenset back from the project as it was.
     
    In pre X1, you could just "load layout."   In X1, once you're in SAFE MODE, there is no "Load Screensets."  So you have to use the above method which, if/when they fix it, brings yet another set of things one must do before one can keep working.
     
    Fixable?  I dunno.  Problem?  For now.
     
    Try it you'll see what I mean.
     
     

    Billy Arnell (ba-midi)

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    CakeFan
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    Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2011/01/04 11:11:47 (permalink)
    Cool, I didn't realize that... Thanks!
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    yorolpal
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    Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2011/01/04 11:20:23 (permalink)
    Screensets should, at the very very very least, have a "global" option.  Go ahead and call those "layouts" again... who cares...just bring them back.  For those of you who do find screensets useful, rock on.  But to many of us they seem about as useful as tits on a boar hog.

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    ba_midi
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    Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2011/01/04 11:49:18 (permalink)
    yorolpal


    Screensets should, at the very very very least, have a "global" option.  Go ahead and call those "layouts" again... who cares...just bring them back.  For those of you who do find screensets useful, rock on.  But to many of us they seem about as useful as tits on a boar hog.

    I think they do serve some purpose, indeed.  Just not in every situation or in trouble situations like I mentioned about Safe mode.
     
    Seems to me there is some consensus that having BOTH options would be the best solution.
     
     

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    FastBikerBoy
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    Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2011/01/04 11:56:16 (permalink)
    yorolpal


    Screensets should, at the very very very least, have a "global" option.  Go ahead and call those "layouts" again... who cares...just bring them back.  For those of you who do find screensets useful, rock on.  But to many of us they seem about as useful as tits on a boar hog.


    Yeah I could live with a global option, just as long as they keep the local option too.

    I don't know about you but I don't want to go changing something in one project just to find the same change had been made in all my other projects too. That's what a global screenset would do. Their not just a new name for layouts, they're far more powerful.

    Remember we're not just talking about the way the screens look but the snap to settings, zoom settings, amongst many others would all be changed in other projects. I really think a global screenset would be confusing, wondering what had changed the project you haven't opened for weeks. Each to their own though, as long as the local option exists, I can live with a global one too.

    #16
    yorolpal
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    Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2011/01/04 12:18:23 (permalink)
    Right, it should be an option.  For someone like me who always uses (for all practical purposes) the same general settings and views for ALL of my projects a global option is the only way to go.  I'm such a dullard... I can't imagine having multiple screensets that are proprietary to each individual project...as long as my mix settings are saved with the session, I'm good to go:-)

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    UnderTow
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    Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2011/01/04 12:20:11 (permalink)
    Freddie H


    The new Screensets features in X1 work and are implemented exactly the same as in Cubase, Nuendo & Logic.

    Rubbish.

    Cubase has Global or Per Project Workspace Presets. Also, in Cubase, the Project Workspace Presets are automatically saved with the project so that if you open it somewhere else, all your Project Workspaces are available. As you can quickly copy Project Workspace Presets to Global Workspace Presets and vice versa, you can easily bring all your Workspace Presets with you when working elsewhere. (No need export or import anything. Just open the "Manage Workspaces" tool and copy Presets around simply by clicking). But it goes even further: There is an option to automatically copy all your Global Workspace Presets to any new project you create or any project you open. In other words, in Cubase, all your Global Presets are instantly available on your local DAW or anywhere you open any of your projects without ever having to think about it. This is clearly not "implemented exactly the same".

    I suggest you send a feature request "how" this new feature should been implemented instead.
    I suggest Cakewalk do their homework before replacing existing functionality with lesser tools. All they need to do is read the Cubase manual to see a better implementation. Proper research should be the FIRST thing a software developer does before even thinking of changing an existing tool.

    UnderTow
    #18
    FastBikerBoy
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    Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2011/01/04 12:23:19 (permalink)
    Yorolpal, you can still have all your screensets the same for all projects. Get a project set up how you want it with all the screensets sorted out and then save it as a template.

    All the screensets are recalled when you start a new project from that template.

    For existing projects see my post #10 above. Not ideal I agree but it only takes a couple of seconds per project and only needs to be done once.
    #19
    rbowser
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    Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2011/01/04 12:46:25 (permalink)
    Lunatique


    That's a pretty simple workaround, but seeing how I have a bunch of work-in-progress projects that I want to continue in X1, I'd then have to copy those screensets from the template for all of them. I don't mind having to do that, but I still want to see this fixed, as it's one of the worst flubs I've ever witnessed any software development.


    Hi, Lunatique - It really is a shock, to see how differently Sonar now handles layouts.  Why the company had to take users by such surprise, with implementations that don't even resemble the earlier workings of Sonar - that's anyone's guess.  You can see the Forum here has been littered with the gasps and moans from users ever since the X1 release date.

    One theory, not that it really matters, is that a young development committee convinced the company that Sonar was hopelessly "last decade" and needed to look simple enough for new customers to have no fear of.  I think it's possible that part of the decision was to purposely make the program dumber to parallel the shorter attention spans of new customers.

    But specifically regarding Screensets - I agree that most of us won't be happy until they are available easily and globally, the way Layouts were.

    It does work, however, to make a template with all your basic layouts, and then use that as the starting point for new projects.  I'm talking about a bare bones template that basically is just arranging where components are on the screen.  The more tracks, FX, synths in a template, the more likely you are to have problems.

    But once you have such a template, if it's put together correctly, it does work, despite messages you might have read to the contrary.  AND don't forget that you can use the new Browser to drag-n-drop entire projects--so in the case you're talking about, I would suggest making your template, then start by dragging in the work you've done so far with your works-in-progress.

    Randy B.


    post edited by rbowser - 2011/01/04 12:48:30

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    #20
    yorolpal
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    Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2011/01/04 12:52:52 (permalink)
    FastBikerBoy


    Yorolpal, you can still have all your screensets the same for all projects. Get a project set up how you want it with all the screensets sorted out and then save it as a template.

    All the screensets are recalled when you start a new project from that template.

    For existing projects see my post #10 above. Not ideal I agree but it only takes a couple of seconds per project and only needs to be done once.


    Right FBB.  I've already done that as regards my "Normal" template.  But I'm currently working on my latest CD project (over 20 songs I hope to cull down to about 12) which were done in 8.5.3 and they, of course will not have the screensets, unless I import them.  Which I might.  All my future X1 projects (if I decide to stay with X1) will have my three pitiful little screen sets.

    https://soundcloud.com/doghouse-riley/tracks 
     
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    HumbleNoise
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    Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2011/01/04 14:44:42 (permalink)
    yorolpal


    .......will have my three pitiful little screen sets.


    I only use 3 or 4 at most.

    Humbly Yours

    Larry

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    rbowser
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    Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2011/01/04 15:02:58 (permalink)
    yorolpal




    ...I'm currently working on my latest CD project (over 20 songs I hope to cull down to about 12) which were done in 8.5.3 and they, of course will not have the screensets, unless I import them.  Which I might...


    Yorolpal, have you experimented with drag-n-dropping your 8.5 projects into X1 from the browser?  Maybe that'll get what you need.

    Randy B.

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    Ingvarius
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    Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2011/02/06 08:59:53 (permalink)
    There definitely should be an option to save and load Screensets to separate "Screenset" files. While Sonar X1 really needed the new GUI, such a lack of functionality is striking to me. I work with a ton of applications, all sorts of the well known multi media apps, as well as many other because I am a programmer at day time :-)
    And being able to save templates to disc and load them later, is a must.
    These features are simple to implement, they will not interfere with ohter functionality, so they represent no risks and therefore also represent almost no need for extra testing before release.
    Ingvar
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    FastBikerBoy
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    Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2011/02/06 09:06:40 (permalink)
    There definitely should be an option to save and load Screensets to separate "Screenset" files


    +10000000000000. If they ever get that they'll be almost perfect (once the known bugs are fixed)
    #25
    MaharishiPuppyChow
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    Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2012/04/14 15:48:54 (permalink)
    I agree with Lunatique. I'm now experiencing this same irritation in Sonar X1 Producer Expanded. I went from having two 19" monitors, to a 32" HDMI, and now have to redrag my output strips into position on over 650 separate projects (individually), then.... I can save them like that. Why can't Sonar have a (Lock-to-all-projects) screenset function ? You can unlock it when you want to add or delete them. I'm busy for the next solid week doing computer maintenance to my projects now. 
    #26
    John
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    Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2012/04/14 16:05:25 (permalink)
    There definitely should be an option to save and load Screensets to separate "Screenset" files +10000000000000. If they ever get that they'll be almost perfect (once the known bugs are fixed)
    This is one feature I would greatly appreciate. I wanted this as soon I got X1. But FFB knows this already. LOL

    Best
    John
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    FastBikerBoy
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    Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2012/04/15 01:45:02 (permalink)
    MaharishiPuppyChow


    I agree with Lunatique. I'm now experiencing this same irritation in Sonar X1 Producer Expanded. I went from having two 19" monitors, to a 32" HDMI, and now have to redrag my output strips into position on over 650 separate projects (individually), then.... I can save them like that. Why can't Sonar have a (Lock-to-all-projects) screenset function ? You can unlock it when you want to add or delete them. I'm busy for the next solid week doing computer maintenance to my projects now. 


    You can import screensets from an existing project. You need to set the option to allow two projects open together first. Then open the source project, then a target project and in the target select "Import screensets from source project" from the Screenset menu. If there's any screensets in the target  project you don't want over-written lock them first.

    I agree that there could be & should be a more elegant way of loading screensets. Personally, I don't want 'global' screensets though. I do not want a situation where changing a screenset in one project changes the corresponding ss in all projects. For example, I frequently hide and unhide tracks as I archive them in projects and finding that track 3 through 7 have suddenly been hidden in every project will create chaos for me and I suspect most people. That is how I would expect a truly 'global' screenset to behave and it won't suit me at all.

    If they do ever go truly global I hope it's as an option, else the program would become almost unusable for me.
    #28
    Lunatique
    Max Output Level: -87 dBFS
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    Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2012/04/15 02:23:23 (permalink)
    So now it's well over a year later, and still nothing's been done about global screenset option? Instead, Cakewalk spends its time developing audio effects, rather than work on workflow key issues that are far more vital to the user experience? Why the hell would we want more and more audio effects when there are plenty of options on the market already, of cheap yet high quality effects suite that we can easily afford? We can buy third-party effects but we can't buy a better workflow--unless we abandon the software altogether.

    If that's not a company with its head stuck in its own ass, then I don't know what is. How effing hard could it possible be to implement a global screenset option? Looks like Cakewalk is just being stubborn, thinking they know better than the users what the users themselves want. If they indeed do have such clairvoyant ability like that of Steve Jobs/Apple, then Cakewalk wouldn't be what it is now. 

    The most useful features I have continually begged for for since years ago are still nowhere to be found--ones that I feel do have the clairvoyant quality of Jobs/Apple, where even though the user base might not have thought of it, will become extremely popular once implemented (for example, the Photoshop-like "grabber tool" that allows complete freedom in navigating the workspace, with 360 degrees of movement, in any situation where we currently are forced to use the damn scroll bars to move around).

    The best software development teams understand that flexibility and customizability is key to a good product, especially when it comes to any kind of complex software where the workflow will make or break the experience. 

    I swear, if I ran Cakewalk as its head of development, I'd completely change the way Cakewalk is run. 

    Website + Blog: www.ethereality.info
    #29
    John
    Forum Host
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    Re:PLEASE, is there any way to have global screensets? 2012/04/15 02:27:24 (permalink)
    So you are saying we need a Lunatic running CW? OK

    Best
    John
    #30
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