williamcopper
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Paste problems in platinum
Screen shot attached. There is a serious bug somewhere deep in sonar that surfaces after a heavy work session. 
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promidi
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Re: Paste problems in platinum
May 16, 15 8:12 AM
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Unfortunately the screen shot is too small to show what issue you are having. Could you also describe in words what issue you are having.
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Doktor Avalanche 
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Re: Paste problems in platinum
May 16, 15 8:12 AM
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Steps to reproduce please (yup image too small and I'm not sure what we are supposed to be looking at).
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williamcopper
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Re: Paste problems in platinum
May 16, 15 8:13 AM
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An attempted paste gives a blank dialog box, the screen stops refreshing. Until I turned off autosave, this kind of thing also resulted in a crash ... now the signal is the screen refresh issue, so I close and reboot and start over, at least not losing work.
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Paste problems in platinum
May 16, 15 8:17 AM
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Exactly what are you copying and pasting? Where are you copy and pasting? What dialogue is it? What else are you doing? You need to get into the specifics with as much detail as possible so we don't have to waste time asking questions. We need steps! For those interested larger image here. Ta.
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williamcopper
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Re: Paste problems in platinum
May 16, 15 8:26 AM
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I'm sorry, this is not an easily reproduced situation: it only happens after several hours of heavy work. The post was just a reminder to the programmers that there really is or are deep issues that remain.
Also, this arose from many many edits but no weird things like messing with VSTs or FX chains.
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Paste problems in platinum
May 16, 15 8:31 AM
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I totally get you... I have a few issues I can't pinpoint.
Sadly though without the specifics or even a general background almost impossible to do anything about it. The only way is to test until you get the right conditions to repro.
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mudgel
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Re: Paste problems in platinum
May 16, 15 9:28 AM
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williamcopper
I'm sorry, this is not an easily reproduced situation: it only happens after several hours of heavy work. The post was just a reminder to the programmers that there really is or are deep issues that remain.
Also, this arose from many many edits but no weird things like messing with VSTs or FX chains.
Sadly in this format, programmers are hardly likely to even see the comments you've made.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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Wookiee
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Re: Paste problems in platinum
May 16, 15 9:35 AM
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I would highly recommend you reporting this with the emphasis on it being time related issue. I have noticed some oddities with the paste function when I have spent time MIDI editing. i.e. miss pasting even when using the option to paste special or the keyboard short-cut ctrl-alt-V, telling where to paste to have it paste starting on a different track.
post edited by Wookiee - May 16, 15 9:42 AM
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brundlefly
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Re: Paste problems in platinum
May 16, 15 11:15 AM
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williamcopper
I'm sorry, this is not an easily reproduced situation: it only happens after several hours of heavy work.
Given you've apparently seen it more than once but it's never been reported by anyone else (to my knowledge), if it's not environment-specific, I would suspect it's a product of a very particular workflow that you have, and only you will be able to determine the sequence of events that causes it. It seems likely to me that using floated windows might be a contributing factor. Related to that, what are all those minimized windows at the bottom of your desktop?
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Anderton
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Re: Paste problems in platinum
May 16, 15 11:28 AM
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If you want to see the picture at full size you can right-click on the image, choose copy, then open Paint and paste into it.
Many hours on sessions with big sample libraries may be a memory issue. The great thing about 64-bit systems is you can load a zillion libraries into RAM, and 64 GB sure seems like it would be plenty for just about anything, but multi-gigabyte samples add up if they're left in memory even if you're not using them. Kontakt has a purge function to help with this, not sure about other samplers. Note that even streaming from disk uses up quite a bit of memory because the sampler has to store all the note attacks in RAM.
Might be worth getting into a workflow for a week or two where after two hours you save, re-boot to clear out the RAM, then re-open the project and see if the problem still occurs.
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Paste problems in platinum
May 16, 15 11:50 AM
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Wookiee
I would highly recommend you reporting this with the emphasis on it being time related issue. I have noticed some oddities with the paste function when I have spent time MIDI editing. i.e. miss pasting even when using the option to paste special or the keyboard short-cut ctrl-alt-V, telling where to paste to have it paste starting on a different track.
I certainly wouldn't bother reporting it until better steps can be obtained. Without even slightly better steps to repro I suspect QA would probably skip this and move onto another issue more easily reproduced (better use of their time). It will be like searching for a needle in a haystack. Right now it's far too easy to assume it's an environmental issue (whether that's true or not remains to be seen, it's anybodies guess). If it's a screen refresh issue you might try updating your display drivers (for what it's worth).
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - May 16, 15 12:01 AM
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Jimbo 88
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Re: Paste problems in platinum
May 16, 15 12:11 AM
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Yes, this does happen. I have experienced it many times, for many years. It is a memory and buffer issue. your edit history and other things become overwhelming. So you save and exit (try emptying your Picture Cashe folder on occasion also, that solves many of these issues!). When you reload the project it will be good for again for a decent amount of time (if emptying the Picture Cashe folder fixes things it will be good for a long time.) Panu's program "Duckbar" will do this for you. Dload this program and look under "Tasks" http://www.sonarmods.com/forum/index.php Plus it will make your Sonar GUI look really cool if you so desire. A more powerful computer with more memory will help also. I think I need to upgrade mine.
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Anderton
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Re: Paste problems in platinum
May 16, 15 3:05 PM
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Jimbo 88
A more powerful computer with more memory will help also. I think I need to upgrade mine.
But the OP has an i7 and 64 GB of RAM, not quite sure where he'd go from there. I don't know enough about computers to comment on this in depth, but I've heard of programs not releasing data from RAM and just continuing to fill up the RAM until eventually, there's not enough room left for basic operations (like storing data in RAM for pastes), and I've also heard about "memory leakage." Maybe someone with more computer savvy could give more details.
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Paste problems in platinum
May 16, 15 4:02 PM
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It could just as easily be a drivers issue (most likely audio interface). I would update all drivers and firmware everywhere and run windows update several times. Update motherboard bios and chipset drivers. Right now impossible to tell. Memory leakage could be any buggy app, but that could be down to any app or any drivers. Or it could be caused by something like antivirus locking the files of an app turning it into a buggy app. The best way to tell if that's happening is to download a copy of process explorer (taskman replacement) and just keep monitoring the graph, if you start getting cores filling up to 100% you are in trouble and you can locate the process effected (note I see process effected it could be some other process that's causing it). You could also monitor your memory/IO/GPU if you like on the summary graph We however don't really know if it's even a memory leak yet. In fact I'm experiencing an issue with this myself (unfortunately with no steps to repro) with the Native Instruments hardware service and control surfaces maxing out cores in Sonar. Looks like a NI issue but hard to tell right now so not pointing fingers..
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - May 16, 15 4:09 PM
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Paste problems in platinum
May 16, 15 4:11 PM
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BTW the end result is it crashes Sonar but it's hard to tell whether it's VS700 controller, the NI service or NI drivers right now, or indeed Sonar core code. To the layman it would look like Sonar crashing but there's no way to point the finger right now of the cause without more detailed research.
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williamcopper
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Re: Paste problems in platinum
May 16, 15 7:56 PM
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All good comments. As noted I have a pretty good computer, lots of ram, a good audio card with latest driver. As far as I know there's nothing odd about my workflow, but who knows? Sometimes things I do, and post about, get greeted here with "oh I never do it that way..."
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williamcopper
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Re: Paste problems in platinum
May 16, 15 8:06 PM
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Maybe someone can improve my workflow: I spend endless hours taking a single track, derived from a printed score, and breaking it into many tracks in order to make an instrument with many different articulations: staccato, accent, legato, spi-ccato, quiet, loud, sustained, crescendo, diminuendo. So lots of selecting small units, cutting from the source track, and pasting into the destination track.
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icontakt
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Re: Paste problems in platinum
May 16, 15 9:22 PM
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williamcopper
Maybe someone can improve my workflow: I spend endless hours taking a single track, derived from a printed score, and breaking it into many tracks in order to make an instrument with many different articulations: staccato, accent, legato, spi-ccato, quiet, loud, sustained, crescendo, diminuendo. So lots of selecting small units, cutting from the source track, and pasting into the destination track.
I haven't read most of the above posts, so this might have already been suggested, but I think you just need to select those note events in the PRV and click one of track headers in the Track view (to move focus to the view) and then hit Num 8 or Num 2 to move those notes to the previous or next track. I actually never move notes or clips using Ctrl+X and Ctrl+V or Paste Special (Ctrl+Alt+V), which I find not very efficient. I use either Nudge or (Shift-)dragging. Note that nudging notes in Take lanes can cause a serious problem (confirmed as a bug), so don't do it in Take lanes.
Tak T. Primary Laptop: Core i7-4710MQ CPU, 16GB RAM, 7200RPM HDD, Windows 7 Home Premium OS (Japanese) x64 SP1Secondary Laptop: Core2 Duo CPU, 8GB RAM, 7200RPM HDD, Windows 7 Professional OS (Japanese) x64 SP1Audio Interface: iD14 (ASIO)Keyboard Controller/MIDI Interface: A-800PRODAW: SONAR Platinum x64 (latest update installed)
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tenfoot
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Re: Paste problems in platinum
May 16, 15 9:55 PM
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Anderton
Jimbo 88
A more powerful computer with more memory will help also. I think I need to upgrade mine.
But the OP has an i7 and 64 GB of RAM, not quite sure where he'd go from there.
The acuity of your responses amaze me every time Craig. Now and then I get to laugh out loud as well:)
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Anderton
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Re: Paste problems in platinum
May 16, 15 10:33 PM
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williamcopper
Maybe someone can improve my workflow: I spend endless hours taking a single track, derived from a printed score, and breaking it into many tracks in order to make an instrument with many different articulations: staccato, accent, legato, spi-ccato, quiet, loud, sustained, crescendo, diminuendo. So lots of selecting small units, cutting from the source track, and pasting into the destination track.
Again this may be totally bogus, so take it for what it's worth and I'm sure someone computer-savvy will correct me if I'm wrong...but computers deal in blocks of memory. My hard drive is partitioned in 4K blocks. So this means that even a text file with 256 bytes will take up 4K. I have all kinds of little files (asset files and such) yet they cannot take up any less than 4K. Don't know if RAM works the same way, but those zillions of little edits might add up. I certainly experience something similar in Sony Vegas, where I have many more tiny edits than I would ever do in SONAR. After an hour or so I save a Vegas project, close it, and then re-open it. Crashes and weirdnesses pretty much disappear when I do that.
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williamcopper
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Re: Paste problems in platinum
May 17, 15 1:25 AM
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Answering a question from earlier, what are all the minimized windows: it's my attempt to sanitize and sanify the horrible nature of the PRV controller pane. See screenshot attached, the result of deciding to add one more midi track to a group of related tracks in one of those windows: after having pared down all the extraneous controller lanes to just the velocity, CC1, and CC11, I get the view as shown. And I have to click in the tiny tiny "minus-sign-in-a-box" in each lane, accurately, to close ONE of them. Then the screen jumps, all the lanes reposition themselves, and I have to click in the next tiny tiny "minus-sign-in-a-box", accurately, to close a second one. Then the screen jumps, all the lanes reposition themselves, and I have to click in the next tiny tiny "minus-sign-in-a-box", accurately, to close a second one. Then the screen jumps, all the lanes reposition themselves, and I have to ... you get the idea! (Though the programmers, so far, don't seem to ...)  
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williamcopper
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Re: Paste problems in platinum
May 17, 15 1:31 AM
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icontakt, I tried your suggestion, and it doesn't seem to work as described? I select notes in one track, in PRV, click in track view, turn off num-lock, press 8 on the number pad, and the track focus shifts to the previous track, but the notes remain where they were. Am I doing something wrong?
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icontakt
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Re: Paste problems in platinum
May 17, 15 3:59 AM
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williamcopper
icontakt, I tried your suggestion, and it doesn't seem to work as described? I select notes in one track, in PRV, click in track view, turn off num-lock, press 8 on the number pad, and the track focus shifts to the previous track, but the notes remain where they were. Am I doing something wrong?
It should work as I described. Try it in a new project. Does Process > Nudge > Up or Down in the menu bar not work, either?
Tak T. Primary Laptop: Core i7-4710MQ CPU, 16GB RAM, 7200RPM HDD, Windows 7 Home Premium OS (Japanese) x64 SP1Secondary Laptop: Core2 Duo CPU, 8GB RAM, 7200RPM HDD, Windows 7 Professional OS (Japanese) x64 SP1Audio Interface: iD14 (ASIO)Keyboard Controller/MIDI Interface: A-800PRODAW: SONAR Platinum x64 (latest update installed)
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williamcopper
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Re: Paste problems in platinum
May 17, 15 6:00 AM
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Process - nudge - down/up works. I think I may have unbound the number pad numbers in an attempt to stop sonar from going crazy when I accidentally type a number without properly giving focus.
Of course, the keyboard shortcut name is hardcoded in the menu text, whether it works or not Sometimes I really wonder about who they get to program around here.
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