AnsweredPerformance Win 7 <--> Win 8.1 (Same PC, but Sonar's Performance is different)

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Baseman
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2013/12/11 01:19:16 (permalink)

Performance Win 7 <--> Win 8.1 (Same PC, but Sonar's Performance is different)

Hi there:)
 
Constellation: Intel Core i5 2500 3,3 GHz with RME HDSP 9652
 
I've made a fresh Partition with Win 8.1. newest drivers for Graphics, Audio, Lan etc...
Old Partition with Win 7, newest drivers for Win 7!
 
Now I started "Latency Checker", and both Windows are OK, at about (Yellow) 1000 µs , but mor stable in Windows 8.1, in win 7 there are some Peaks, but not bad.
So far so good, if I start Sonar and any Project, the Performance of Win 7 is much better than in Win 8.1, the CPU View shows it double as high as in Win 7!!! Why?? Same PC, same Audio Card, newest drivers and the "Latency Checker" and the "Latency Mon" both mean that it is OK!!!
 
Any Ideas?? Any Win Services I have to throw out in Win 8.1??
 
Thanks;)
Basie
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Splat
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Re: Performance Win 7 <--> Win 8.1 (Same PC, but Sonar's Performance is different) 2013/12/11 01:51:55 (permalink)
Under performance options make sure you optimize "processor scheduling" for programs NOT background services.
Check to see if you are running antivirus (always a good idea to run antivirus, please don't disable it, just make sure you exclude folders relevant to your DAW).


You might think you are up to date with drivers but running this has proven me wrong on many occasions:
http://forum.cakewalk.com/Driver-Boost-m2928792.aspx
 
Also check this:
http://forum.cakewalk.com/Todays-windows-optimization-tip-m2935172.aspx

This might be very useful to you:
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-gb/sysinternals/bb896653.aspx
 
When running please enable show details for all processes.

Don't forget to run windows update everywhere and defrag.
 
Remember occasionally you are swapping performance out for stability (with todays processor power we often have the luxury to use it elsewhere when it is useful). 
 
Cheers...
post edited by CakeAlexS - 2013/12/11 01:58:56

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@48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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TS
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Re: Performance Win 7 <--> Win 8.1 (Same PC, but Sonar's Performance is different) 2013/12/11 02:10:38 (permalink)
CakeAlexS
Under performance options make sure you optimize "processor scheduling" for programs NOT background services.

 
Hello Alex,
I have read posts with the same notice (including a post from Noël Borwick).
But i am a little irresolute, because the manual of my audio interface (Roland UA-101) recommands to give the priority to background services.
What do you think about that ?
Thanks you.

Laptop HP DV7 (i7 720 QM, Win 7/64, 4 Go Ram), UA-101 (2), Focal Solo6 Be, Sennh HD 600, set micros (MD441, M88, M160, MD431, Mk-012, K2, etc)
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Re: Performance Win 7 <--> Win 8.1 (Same PC, but Sonar's Performance is different) 2013/12/11 02:18:10 (permalink)

Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed.
@48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
#4
TS
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Re: Performance Win 7 <--> Win 8.1 (Same PC, but Sonar's Performance is different) 2013/12/11 02:30:33 (permalink)
 
Thanks you for the advice and the link.
I think i will change my settings this way (it's seems logical, as Sonar is surely not a "background service").

Laptop HP DV7 (i7 720 QM, Win 7/64, 4 Go Ram), UA-101 (2), Focal Solo6 Be, Sennh HD 600, set micros (MD441, M88, M160, MD431, Mk-012, K2, etc)
#5
Sandmännchen
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Re: Performance Win 7 <--> Win 8.1 (Same PC, but Sonar's Performance is different) 2013/12/11 05:46:36 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Ruben 2013/12/14 12:09:38
Hi Basie,
as you can read here http://www.thesycon.de/eng/latency_check.shtml latency checker did not display proper results under Windows 8.x
Only latencymon http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon can do this. So please run latencymon on both OS. Relevant is the highest reported DPC Routine execution time.

Asrock H77 Pro4/MVP,  i7 3770, TC Impact Twin,  EMU 1616m PCIe,  3 Powercore PCI,  Sonar Producer X3e (64 Bit),  Windows 10 (64)

#6
robert_e_bone
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Re: Performance Win 7 <--> Win 8.1 (Same PC, but Sonar's Performance is different) 2013/12/11 09:24:58 (permalink)
You might also consider checking your Power Management options in both Windows 7 and Windows 8.
 
I use the High-Performance power plan, and further adjust a couple of things in the advanced options.
 
1.  I make sure to turn off the Selective Disabling of Idle USB devices.  (My audio interface and/or midi controllers would otherwise get disconnected after some period of time).
 
2.  I also always make sure to change the Minimum Processor State to be at 100%, meaning I fix the CPU performance at its maximum.
 
3.  I actually don't bother with tweaking my antivirus software, as my performance is fine even with it running and not excluding folders and such, but lots of folks do add exclusions to their antivirus software.  Some folks suspend antivirus software when running Sonar sessions.  (I use Avast's free version - I DO suspend it when downloading Sonar updates/upgrades).
 
Bob Bone
 

Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
 
Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es
Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms  
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fireberd
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Re: Performance Win 7 <--> Win 8.1 (Same PC, but Sonar's Performance is different) 2013/12/11 10:04:56 (permalink)
The DPC  Latency Checker is invalid for Win 8 (unless they have finally published the new compatible version in the last couple of days). 
 
I don't know how to compare but I don't really see any difference between Win 7 64 bit/Sonar X3 and Win 8.1 64 bit/Sonar X3.  That is on the same hardware with a dual boot system (i7 3770 CPU, 16GB RAM).  I'm seriously considering moving my "production" to 8.1.  I've been checking all my add-ons, hardware, etc and all of it works in 8.1.
 
 

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nyogisanz
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Re: Performance Win 7 <--> Win 8.1 (Same PC, but Sonar's Performance is different) 2013/12/11 12:10:14 (permalink)
Quite interesting. Id sure consider it unto my next build ;)
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Re: Performance Win 7 <--> Win 8.1 (Same PC, but Sonar's Performance is different) 2013/12/11 17:06:03 (permalink)
 
Something curious : when i check my system (Win 7 / 64) with DPC (dpclat.exe), it indicates ther is no problem for audio,
but when i run  Latencymon it indicates a problem (hard pagefault).

Laptop HP DV7 (i7 720 QM, Win 7/64, 4 Go Ram), UA-101 (2), Focal Solo6 Be, Sennh HD 600, set micros (MD441, M88, M160, MD431, Mk-012, K2, etc)
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Baseman
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Re: Performance Win 7 <--> Win 8.1 (Same PC, but Sonar's Performance is different) 2013/12/14 04:16:29 (permalink)
HI:)
 
@CakeAlexS
Driver Booster says that all drivers are up to date, I got the newest drivers!
Tomorrow I have time to look at Process Explorer....  thanks for the tipps;)
 
@Sandmännchen
Hab ich nicht gewusst, aber highest DPC Routine wäre 266, 043542 für Win 7 , Win 8.1 kuck ich gleich nach...der letzte Balken geht ziemlich ins Rote bei Win 7, hat das was zu sagen?? Ich bin auch dämlich, hatte ein Supersystem mit Win 7 laufen, das hab ich jetzt mit Win 8.1 überschrieben in der Hoffnung dass es gut wird
Quark, hab doch ein Backup, aber da ist halt noch Sonar X2 drauf, mal kucken eventuell spiel ich das Backup zurück und versuche dann X3 zu installieren, aber Win 8.1 wäre mir eigentlich schon lieber...
 
@robert_e_bone
1. OK 2. OK 3. Ok that's all fine:) I have it like that!!
 
Let me try Process Explorer, I hope I can find out, where the Problem is....
 
Baseman.
 
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Baseman
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Re: Performance Win 7 <--> Win 8.1 (Same PC, but Sonar's Performance is different) 2013/12/14 04:54:15 (permalink)
Hi again:)
 
OK Latency Mon now is very different (I've stopped some services)
Win 7  1. very low and stable 1-5 bulks 2. 3 bulks very stable  3. not visible 4. 3 bulks stable 5. 5 bulks stable 6. fully in red
Win 8.1 1. very unstable from 1 to about 17 bulks 2. 16 bulks stable 3 not visible 4. 3 bulks 4. 5 bulks 6. fully in red
highest DPC Routine Win 7 266,043542 Win 8 197, 031480
 
Don't know what to do with it, the Jumps of the first line is not good I think....what do you mean?
Thanks;)
Baseman.
 
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Performance Win 7 <--> Win 8.1 (Same PC, but Sonar's Performance is different) 2013/12/14 10:37:31 (permalink)
@Baseman - I haven't run LatencyMon for quite a while, as my system has been behaving wonderfully peppy.  What are the 'bulks' you are referring to?  I also had no idea of what the rest of what you were trying to explain in all of that (I am just ignorant of LatencyMon and ProcessExplorer, due to it having been a couple of years since doing anything with them - Windows XP I believe for me)
 
So, if you don't mind elaborating a little on your prior post, that would likely teach me something I might be able to use if I ever run into problems.
 
Thanks, 
 
Bob Bone
 

Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
 
Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
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Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms  
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Splat
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Re: Performance Win 7 <--> Win 8.1 (Same PC, but Sonar's Performance is different) 2013/12/14 11:23:10 (permalink) ☼ Best Answerby Baseman 2013/12/17 05:39:41
Screenshots :)

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@48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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Baseman
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Re: Performance Win 7 <--> Win 8.1 (Same PC, but Sonar's Performance is different) 2013/12/17 05:46:56 (permalink)
Hi there:)
How can I insert Images here, it's just possible to insert a link to an image....
 
Thanks
 
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Baseman
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Re: Performance Win 7 <--> Win 8.1 (Same PC, but Sonar's Performance is different) 2013/12/17 05:47:56 (permalink)
Hi there:)
How can I insert Images here, it's just possible to insert a link to an image....
 
Thanks
 
#16
Baseman
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Re: Performance Win 7 <--> Win 8.1 (Same PC, but Sonar's Performance is different) 2013/12/17 05:58:57 (permalink)
Hi again:)
I hope it works...
Win 7:
http://s25.postimg.org/uc8f74otb/Win_7.png



Win 8.1

http://s25.postimg.org/svwwozlwf/Win_8_1.png

The first line is more stable since I installed TuneUp Utilities and cleaned everything and stopped 3 programs...
But not as good as in Win 7!! No Idea anymore what to do:(
 
It's not a problem, cause all my projects work well in both Win 7 and Win 8.1, but it's in my brain, to see that sonar is working better in Win 7:(
Perhaps I'm looking for WDK and Performance Kit to see, which drivers don't work well....perhaps the newest Hammerfall driver, which is much newer than the one in Win 7 (Okt 2013 instead of Mar 2013)
 
Baseman.
 
post edited by Baseman - 2013/12/17 06:09:00
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Baseman
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Re: Performance Win 7 <--> Win 8.1 (Same PC, but Sonar's Performance is different) 2013/12/17 06:00:39 (permalink)
No Pictures:(
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lawp
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Re: Performance Win 7 <--> Win 8.1 (Same PC, but Sonar's Performance is different) 2013/12/17 08:18:50 (permalink)
forum doesn't support pngs? the images are visible if you open the link directly
#19
robert_e_bone
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Re: Performance Win 7 <--> Win 8.1 (Same PC, but Sonar's Performance is different) 2013/12/17 09:30:54 (permalink)
I was able to see the screen shots, by selecting the text of the link, right-clicking on it, then clicking on the 'Go to .....' in the drop-down (.... is the link).  This worked for both links.
 
I am, though, a bit confused, and please forgive my ignorance on some of this.
 
In your Windows 7 screen shot, it looks like your DPC latency is 180 us (little fuzzy on the screen, but that's what it looked like to me)
 
In your Windows 8 screen shot, it looks like your DPC latency is 137 us.
 
So, it looks like Windows 8 is performing with a lower detected DPC Latency.
 
Bob Bone

Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
 
Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es
Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms  
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Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
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Re: Performance Win 7 <--> Win 8.1 (Same PC, but Sonar's Performance is different) 2013/12/17 09:32:42 (permalink)
Have a look in Control Panel -> System -> Device Manager for any (!).  
Also, insure that you have the correct chipset drivers installed for your system.  
Make sure the disk transfer mode is correctly set.
 
Open IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers
For Win7/8, right click any ATA Channel 0/1/etc. and choose Properties
Click Advanced Settings and have a look at Device Properties.  Insure
'Enable DMA' is checked if it's present.
 

post edited by Keith Albright [Cakewalk] - 2013/12/17 09:45:56

Keith
#21
Paul P
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Re: Performance Win 7 <--> Win 8.1 (Same PC, but Sonar's Performance is different) 2013/12/17 09:55:02 (permalink)
Thanks Keith for this.
 
I'm wondering if I haven't discovered a problem on my system.  I seem to have two drivers per channels 0-5, one of each which has DMA enabled, the other not, then channel 6 no and channel 7 yes.
 

 
Can you or anybody else shed some light on this ?  I get the impression I have two sets installed, one from Intel and one from Microsoft.
 
Is this a problem ?  If so, how do I get rid of the microsoft set ?
 
 

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#22
Splat
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Re: Performance Win 7 <--> Win 8.1 (Same PC, but Sonar's Performance is different) 2013/12/17 10:16:47 (permalink)
Looks fine to me. If it's running OK, it's running OK..

Check for latest chipset and other drivers here:
http://forum.cakewalk.com/Driver-Boost-m2928792.aspx
 

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@48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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#23
Paul P
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Re: Performance Win 7 <--> Win 8.1 (Same PC, but Sonar's Performance is different) 2013/12/18 10:10:21 (permalink)
Me
I'm wondering if I haven't discovered a problem on my system.  I seem to have two drivers per channels 0-5, one of each which has DMA enabled, the other not, then channel 6 no and channel 7 yes.




After further review, and to close this issue in case anyone finds a similar situation when looking at their SATA controllers...
 
My system has 1 SSD, 3 HDDs and 2 optical drives.  These are handled by the X79 controller.
The system also has 2 (pseudo) SATA III ports provided by a Marvell chip.  I don't use these ports and even though I've disabled them in the BIOS, Windows somehow sees the chip and, since all six ports are taken up on the X79 controller, goes ahead and installs a generic SATA controller with 8 channels and puts the Marvell on the 8th.
 
With some trepidation, I gradually deactivated all the non-DMA channels, then the generic SATA controller (rebooting after each step).  I then had only the six X79 channels 0-5 showing in the devices list.  Everything continued to work so I uninstalled the generic controller.  On reboot Windows goes and reinstalls the generic controller with all 8 channels (the extra 0-7) and puts the Marvell chip on channel 7.
 
So I've just deactivated the generic controller without removing it and my channel list now shows only channels 0-5 off the X79 controller.
 

Sonar Platinum [2017.10], Win7U x64 sp1, Xeon E5-1620 3.6 GHz, Asus P9X79WS, 16 GB ECC, 128gb SSD, HD7950, Mackie Blackjack
#24
Splat
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Re: Performance Win 7 <--> Win 8.1 (Same PC, but Sonar's Performance is different) 2013/12/18 14:09:20 (permalink)
Good lord - I'm glad that worked (I wouldn't have had the guts)...
 
Congrats....
 
Cheers...

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@48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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hockeyjx
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Re: Performance Win 7 <--> Win 8.1 (Same PC, but Sonar's Performance is different) 2013/12/18 14:16:45 (permalink)
You can also go to http://www.intel.com/p/en_US/support/detect and update from them automatically (I recommend using Internet Explorer to run it). That way you can check if a) A system scan recognizes WHAT you have and b) update any chipset drivers

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#26
Splat
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Re: Performance Win 7 <--> Win 8.1 (Same PC, but Sonar's Performance is different) 2013/12/18 14:28:52 (permalink)
hockeyjx
You can also go to http://www.intel.com/p/en_US/support/detect and update from them automatically (I recommend using Internet Explorer to run it). That way you can check if a) A system scan recognizes WHAT you have and b) update any chipset drivers



Last time I did that it didn't work on Windows 8.1. Let me know if the situation has changed... Cheers..

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@48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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hockeyjx
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Re: Performance Win 7 <--> Win 8.1 (Same PC, but Sonar's Performance is different) 2013/12/18 21:24:59 (permalink)
I tell you, WIN8 is THE DEVIL!

Intel i7 950 Proc, Asus Sabertooth x58 MB, 2 Crucial 128GB SSDs and Seagate 1TBGB drive, 12GB Corsair 1600mhz 8-8-8-24 Memory, Nvidia GeForece 8400 Dual Monitor vid card
Cooler Master Silent Pro 700w Power Supply, Cooler Master Sileo 500


Win 7 64 bit, SPlat 64-bit, Komplete 10 Ultimate, AmpliTube3 and AD2


Tascam FW-1884 and AKAI MPK-49
#28
Baseman
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 41
  • Joined: 2008/05/05 05:50:19
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Re: Performance Win 7 <--> Win 8.1 (Same PC, but Sonar's Performance is different) 2013/12/19 04:00:58 (permalink)
Hi all there:)
 
Thank to to all your answers!!! It is solved, but I don't know why!!!! Sorry:)
 
I've looked to so much things, drivers, services a.s.o 
After I installed Tuneup 2014 and cleaned the system, after reboot it was all OK, even now better than in Win 7!!!
So if anyone want's to know what I have done insomma, I must look and see....
 
The problem is solved!!!!  Thanks to all:)
 
Baseman.
 
#29
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