Helpful ReplyPiano Roll grey and white gridlines get mis-aligned [Sonar Premium]

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Tripecac
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2016/01/22 14:23:03 (permalink)

Piano Roll grey and white gridlines get mis-aligned [Sonar Premium]

Sometimes the horizontal grey and white grid lines get mis-aligned.  Closing the piano roll and reopening it fixes the problem temporarily, but soon they are mis-aligned again.
 
Is there a fix for this?
 

post edited by Tripecac - 2016/06/04 22:48:57

tripecac.com
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#1
brundlefly
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Re: Piano Roll grey and white gridlines get reversed [Sonar Premium] 2016/01/22 14:52:10 (permalink)
I have not encountered this, but a number of users have reported the keyboard getting out of alignment with the PRV rows. Changing vertical zoom level should correct it without having to re-open the PRV. It seems no one has ever found a reproducible recipe for the Bakers to investigate.

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#2
Paul P
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Re: Piano Roll grey and white gridlines get reversed [Sonar Premium] 2016/01/22 20:33:42 (permalink)
 
I can't get it to screw up either, but I must thank you for making me realize that the black keys are painted across the grid.  I'd never noticed this.  This is going to be a real help when working on notes far from the displayed keyboard.
 
I'll keep an eye out in case they reverse themselves.
 

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#3
msorrels
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Re: Piano Roll grey and white gridlines get reversed [Sonar Premium] 2016/01/22 23:17:01 (permalink)
It's the bug that's been haunting Sonar since the 'A' release.  Drives me nuts!  One of the monthly releases actually claimed to fix this but it still happens. 
 
When it happens, you have to hit the vertical zoom (plus or minus) to get the keyboard to sync up with the MIDI lanes.  Usually once you have done the zoom the bug won't happen again on that MIDI clip.  I've seen it more often when using MIDI clips (dragged in from the browser or from a VST) but what exactly causes it to happen has never been fully worked out. 
 
I wish the Cakewalk developers would work backwards on this bug.  Assume the MIDI lanes and keyboard aren't in sync, then work backwards and figure out ways the PRV could get into that state.  Next time it happens for me I'm going to use Visual Studio and capture a full debug dump of the running Sonar, like what the crash reporter does only with even more data and not requiring a crash.  Maybe that would help them, assuming the support group bothers to pass it on.

-Matt
 
#4
Tripecac
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Re: Piano Roll grey and white gridlines get reversed [Sonar Premium] 2016/03/20 15:47:35 (permalink)
The bug is still happening.
 
Is there a faster way to zoom the piano roll in and out than clicking the little "+" and "-" with the mouse?  A keyboard shortcut, perhaps?  Or another workaround?

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#5
brundlefly
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Re: Piano Roll grey and white gridlines get reversed [Sonar Premium] 2016/03/21 10:36:18 (permalink)
Alt + Scroll Wheel

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Tripecac
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Re: Piano Roll grey and white gridlines get reversed [Sonar Premium] 2016/04/17 22:09:59 (permalink)
Despite even more Sonar updates, this bug is still here, and still annoying me.
 
Is anyone actively trying to troubleshoot it?  Has anyone found steps to reproduce it consistanty?

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#7
Tripecac
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Re: Piano Roll grey and white gridlines get reversed [Sonar Premium] 2016/06/04 12:59:38 (permalink)
This bug is still present in 2016.05. 
 
Has anyone else noticed it?
 
Has anyone else reported it?

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#8
soens
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Re: Piano Roll grey and white gridlines get reversed [Sonar Premium] 2016/06/04 17:59:04 (permalink)
This has never happened to me so it sounds like a video card issue, or another video process interfering with Sonar.
 
 
 
"[Sonar Premium]"
So they DID change the name?!?? (sigh) No more lifetime updates....
post edited by soens - 2016/06/05 03:20:33
#9
Tripecac
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Re: Piano Roll grey and white gridlines get reversed [Sonar Premium] 2016/06/04 21:34:01 (permalink)
I seriously doubt it's an issue with the graphics card.  It seems like an error in the programing logic when initially rendering the PRV.
 
Here are some other topics which discuss this bug:
 
http://forum.cakewalk.com...nt-Issue-m3253652.aspx
 
http://forum.cakewalk.com/PRV-keyboard-misalignment-m3232663.aspx
 
http://forum.cakewalk.com/Problem-with-the-PRV-in-Sonar-Platinum-m3153996-p2.aspx#3154928
 
http://forum.cakewalk.com/MIDI-editing-shows-wrong-notes-on-side-keyboard-m3171589.aspx
 
 
 
 

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#10
backwoods
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Re: Piano Roll grey and white gridlines get reversed [Sonar Premium] 2016/06/04 22:00:42 (permalink)
goneburger

 
#11
Tripecac
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Re: Piano Roll grey and white gridlines get reversed [Sonar Premium] 2016/06/04 22:32:26 (permalink)
Changing to the new theme didn't help the issue either.

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Re: Piano Roll grey and white gridlines get reversed [Sonar Premium] 2016/06/04 23:04:37 (permalink)
It's not a graphic card/video driver issue, it's all internal to Sonar. I've installed every nVidia driver for pretty much ever (years) and this bug has reproduced on all of them at one time or another since the first release of Platinum.
 
I haven't seen it in the last few weeks, but I see no reason to believe it won't still happen.  I suspect it has something to do with how Sonar remembers/tracks the zoom level for a MIDI clip and the track it's in.  Since dragged into MIDI clips don't have that out-of-band data it showed up there first, they made some changes in that area and claimed it was fixed, but I think it's still possible for a MIDI clip/track to get in that strange state.  Perhaps because of editing operations, maybe even editing outside of the Piano Roll?  If it was easily reproducible perhaps it would get fixed, but the exact steps to make it happen aren't obvious.

-Matt
 
#13
soens
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Re: Piano Roll grey and white gridlines get reversed [Sonar Premium] 2016/06/05 03:04:14 (permalink)
Sorry. I'm still on X3 where there's no issue. I'll just leave quietly.....
#14
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Re: Piano Roll grey and white gridlines get reversed [Sonar Premium] 2016/06/05 04:10:22 (permalink)
Tripecac
This bug is still present in 2016.05. 
 
Has anyone else noticed it?
 
Has anyone else reported it?


It's happened to me a couple of times recently. I haven't reported it as I can fiddle around and it'll sort itself out. The first time it happened I was a bit freaked out as I thought I had transposed the midi and had no idea how I'd done it.

It does strike me that it is completely unnecessary for it to go wrong.

Grum.

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Re: Piano Roll grey and white gridlines get reversed [Sonar Premium] 2016/06/05 04:51:25 (permalink)
it happens. 

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Re: Piano Roll grey and white gridlines get mis-aligned [Sonar Premium] 2016/06/05 12:15:01 (permalink)
I've experienced this issue in Sonar for years. Definitely a Sonar bug.

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Glyn Barnes
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Re: Piano Roll grey and white gridlines get mis-aligned [Sonar Premium] 2016/06/05 14:12:08 (permalink)
I saw it just the other day. Seems to be related to zoom level in some way.

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Steffen Heller
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Re: Piano Roll grey and white gridlines get mis-aligned [Sonar Premium] 2016/06/06 09:47:35 (permalink)
This might be a stupid idea, but just to be on the safe side:
Have you checked that "Snap to Scale" is deactivated?
=> https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR%20X3&language=3&help=EditingMIDI.40.html
 
"Snap to Scale" aligns grey rows with those keys that are not within the set scale. As a result, grey rows and black keys have nothing to do with each other and can be "misaligned" completely ;-)
 
If I set "Snap to Scale" to F# major, wouldn't the piano roll look exactly the same as the screenshot from tripecac from post 1?

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#19
msorrels
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Re: Piano Roll grey and white gridlines get mis-aligned [Sonar Premium] 2016/06/06 12:08:24 (permalink)
It's not a snap to scale problem.  It fixes itself if you zoom in or out using the vertical zoom buttons.  Snap to scale would continue to stay no matter what the zoom is.  The two parts of the window (the keys on the left and the rows on the right) are just not in sync when this happens.

-Matt
 
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AllanH
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Re: Piano Roll grey and white gridlines get mis-aligned [Sonar Premium] 2016/06/06 21:25:50 (permalink)
I've seen it, too. For me 2016.5 or possibly the previous release was the first time in a very long time.

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Tripecac
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Re: Piano Roll grey and white gridlines get mis-aligned [Sonar Premium] 2016/06/06 21:55:45 (permalink)
Are you able to see this bug report (from 22 April):
 
https://www.cakewalk.com/...em-Report-Status/49792
 
How long can we expect it to stay in "New" status?
 
What is the point of having a bug reporting system if Cakewalk never actually gets around to reviewing the bugs???

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#22
msorrels
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Re: Piano Roll grey and white gridlines get mis-aligned [Sonar Premium] 2016/06/06 23:54:52 (permalink)
We can't see your bug reports, only our own when we follow that link.

-Matt
 
#23
Tripecac
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Re: Piano Roll grey and white gridlines get mis-aligned [Sonar Premium] 2016/06/07 00:16:11 (permalink)
Well, evidently Cakewalk can't see my bug reports either. 
 
They're still in "New" (unreviewed) status even though the most recent one is from back in April.

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Re: Piano Roll grey and white gridlines get mis-aligned [Sonar Premium] 2016/06/07 06:19:09 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby chuckebaby 2016/06/07 13:02:10
Tripecac
Well, evidently Cakewalk can't see my bug reports either. 
 
They're still in "New" (unreviewed) status even though the most recent one is from back in April.


Seriously dude.... methinks you complain too much! How many threads do you think can you resurrect before someone calls you out? 

Bruce.
 
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msorrels
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Re: Piano Roll grey and white gridlines get mis-aligned [Sonar Premium] 2016/06/07 10:58:28 (permalink)
Posting on these forums is the only way to get Cakewalk to address bugs in Sonar.  It has been this way for some time.  The support channels are mostly there to handle sales and minor installation problems.  It gives a false sense of security that support actually exists.  The wall between front-line support and the Sonar development teams is nearly impossible to breach.
 

-Matt
 
#26
Tripecac
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Re: Piano Roll grey and white gridlines get mis-aligned [Sonar Premium] 2016/06/07 12:27:59 (permalink)
Has it always been like this, or was Cakewalk more responsive to bugs back in the pre-X1 days?  (I didn't experience nearly as many bugs prior to X1, so don't know how to compare before-and-after support quality.)

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Re: Piano Roll grey and white gridlines get mis-aligned [Sonar Premium] 2016/06/07 13:00:30 (permalink)
msorrels
Posting on these forums is the only way to get Cakewalk to address bugs in Sonar.  It has been this way for some time.  The support channels are mostly there to handle sales and minor installation problems.  It gives a false sense of security that support actually exists.  The wall between front-line support and the Sonar development teams is nearly impossible to breach.
 


while I understand some of your opinion, its not true.
bringing attention the details that need fixing / constant complaining are two different things.
its one thing to come here and share your ideas, discuss issues that need fixing, then its another thing to come here only to voice your displeasure.
can you imagine if every single person did this ? who would be here ? no one.
 
I also don't believe the "Squeaky wheel gets the grease" either.
there are certain things I would love to see improved and a few minor issues I would like to see resolved as well. 
but im not going to go on a mission of thread after thread of negative feedback.
that helps no one.
 
I put my trust in the developers/bakers that sooner or later they will address issues.
if I don't put my trust in the developers/bakers I wouldn't be using Sonar and I surely wouldn't be here.
 
I've always looked at this forum as a give and take. (now that's just my opinion / the way I think)
I have received help from good people here...and in return, I've returned that favor by helping others.
you give... you take.
 
 
 
 

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#28
Steffen Heller
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Re: Piano Roll grey and white gridlines get mis-aligned [Sonar Premium] 2016/06/07 13:06:28 (permalink)
Tripecac
Well, evidently Cakewalk can't see my bug reports either. 
They're still in "New" (unreviewed) status even though the most recent one is from back in April.



That is in accordance with my experience. I have a problem report from 3/13/2016 that is still on status "New".

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#29
Tripecac
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Re: Piano Roll grey and white gridlines get mis-aligned [Sonar Premium] 2016/06/07 13:35:31 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby BeingSavedbyGrace 2016/12/14 15:33:40
I put my trust in the developers/bakers that sooner or later they will address issues.

 
Well, trust has to be earned.  And it can be lost. 
 
As of Sonar 8.5.3 I was pretty trusting.  When I started to have problems with X1, then X2, then X3, then Platinum... my trust in Cakewalk eroded.
 
When I see bugs I submitted in April still marked "New" and "not yet reviewed", that further erodes my trust in Cakewalk.
 
It seems like the only threads that I've posted which actually get Cakewalk's attention are the ones which question their business model.  In other word, Cakewalk seems far more interested in what we give them (money) than what they give us (quality product and support).  This disparity further erodes my trust in Cakewalk.
 
I'm sorry if you find my attempts at getting bugs fixed annoying.  I tried the forum first.  Nothing.  Then I tried the problem reporter.  Nothing.  Now I am trying the forum again, seeking to find other people who are experiencing the same problems. 
 
Please tell me: How else can I get the bugs fixed?  Cakewalk's code is not available for scrutiny and recompilation.  If it was, I would fix these bugs myself.
 
Should I just give up?  Let the bugs win?  Move to another software package?  What? 
 
I'm not some whiny newbie, irritated at the slightest little hitch. 
 
I have been using Cakewalk products since 2000, and have a well-established work flow.  When Cakewalk introduces new bugs that interrupt that workflow, I get annoyed.  Naturally.  And I try to get those bugs fixed.  Naturally.  I don't just quietly, stoically suffer.  I am not a sheep (despite the fact that I live in New Zealand).
 
Unlike the blindly faithful (and faithfully blind), I believe that sometimes you HAVE to be a squeaky wheel in order to get adequate customer support.  In my case, when the "quiet" path (of using the problem reporter) doesn't work, I have to resort to the "loud" path (of repetition on the forums).
 
I'm sorry if my bug reporting bothers you.  I am trying to draw Cakewalk's attention to the bugs, so that they can be fixed.  If you don't want to read my topics, then don't.  If you see "tripecac" as the starter of a topic, then don't open it.  And certainly don't post to it, because each time you do, it pushes the thread to the top of the queue, thus encouraging other people to contribute to it, adding even more noise.  By posting in my topics you are only making the wheel squeakier, which helps me, but annoys you.  So why do it?  Why deliberately annoy yourself?

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