keith

10Ten

This is about the controls in the track header not the menus. In the other versions you could have very little info and instantly get it in the inspector or you could have it all in the TVH. Since I never use the CV I need all that info where I can see it.

The "old people" are probably more likely want to use CV heavily for mixing. The "young people" should... and I mean should... be able to only use TV for just about everything. I hadn't used CV in years, and thought X1 would change that... i.e., I would actually want to use CV, because it's so much better than the old CV. Now I don't have a choice. It's CV or nothing. Well, actually, I do have a choice, but that's another "open letter" thread for a another time... Or maybe "nothing" can be replaced with some Blender-esque alt-ctrl-shift-meta key combination that I have no patience for. We'll see. Need to spend more time with X1. Not having options is a bummer though.

Well... Maybe this is so, but I'm an old one for sure... Even if not the oldest...

...and I rarely use CV. I use it mostly to access  seeing/copying plugins on multiple tracks at once. the Bus view in TV is not good for this purpose unless I maximize it so it's faster to go back and forth to CV when I need this. I live in TV with constant excursions to PRV... Other than that? it's inside each plugin...

CV for mixing? I don't have the time for that as I can write in my desires far faster than I can capture them with mechanical movements (faders)... I stopped most of my m working career back when tape was still really the only way to record... and there was very little automation. I remember doing a session at the Power Station in NYC on their' SSL (was it a G4000? In the "piano room"),,, the automation was so primitive it couldn't keep up with us and updating... so we switched back top the old multiple-hands and edit-forward mixing we had always done... ;-)

I have an old Peavey-Cakewalk StudioMix which tho it has it's problems and limitations, I could easily use ot for automation moves... But I'm so much faster at editing it on-screen to my exact desires, that I never bother....

Keni

Yes, this is one of my bugbears with X1. I like all the original functionality of the track strip restored (or at least make it customiseable that we can add functions that we want).

Ta!

There is a pull down menu just above the tracks in TV . I think the default says"custom"
Sellect Track control manager .You can make anything that you want visable.
  Is this what you guys are talking about?

jben


There is a pull down menu just above the tracks in TV . I think the default says"custom"
Sellect Track control manager .You can make anything that you want visable.
  Is this what you guys are talking about?

Hi "jben"...


Yes, it's ONE of the points...


Unfortunately, you CAN'T make ANYTHING visible, as many features are NO LONGER available in the track header (nor in the track control manager....), as "input quantize", "snap to scale", "key transposition", "arpeggiator"...


Those features, which are RELATED to the tracks themselves, in X1, have been instead "moved" to the track inspector, meaning you have NOW to stroll around and about among tracks, inspectors, and awful menus.... !!!!

Those "related" features were previously ALL accessible in the track headers, ALL AT ONCE.... making MIDI editing quite comfortable....

Why take such a strong set of immediately available powerful features away from sight....!!?

They will never get me on this.... It's a step back.... thus things need to be changed....

gothic.angel

BTW, while you're working on it, also bring back a "dark skin" (v8.5 was terrific to the eyes...), and the classic Sonar LOGO... thanks... 

Agree 100%.

I don't understand why software developers feel this need to change what aint broken. The new X1 GUI, while in terms of shapes and colors, isn't bad at all, but in terms of value and contrast, why is it so much brighter? Who the hell likes a bright GUI? Almost every single person I know prefer their GUI to be as dark as possible as long as everything is readable. Darker GUI's are much easier on the eyes for when working long periods. And yes, the new icon/logo has no distinct contrast/shape/color and is very bland and hard to read/identify.

If you guys switched GUI designer for X1, then I highly suggest you hire the previous guy back. The previous version's GUI was by far my favorite of all Sonar versions, EVER.

djjhart@aol.com


I bet after a few more weeks You'll will start to get accustomed to X1 and there tools. Look at it from a new user prospective ,If you look at 8.5's tool bar , there's a ton of Icons, And any new user or uses that uses Logic or other daws look as sonar and gets discouraged right away. X1 makes it alot easier on the eyes, I dislike a few new workflow features, but the tool bar is definately not one.I think Snap to grid is something that needs to be looked at. Also AS 2.0 needs to be fixed, and to be honest , there shouldn't of been a release like this with main features no working at all..  We must sound like a broken record but seriously , AS is a blunder from day one.. 86 Audio Snap and give us something Logic, protools and Abelton would envy. back to the OP question I think you will learn and find an easier way eventually. I am finding my ways around better now. I still find some backwards working but Im open to learn new ways. We can surely know that CW wont bring back that tool bar..So I would find out ways others are doing what you are doing and learn from there workflow, perhaps pick up faster ways of working..

I guess you don't get it...

You could remove any/all those buttons in 8.5 if you wanted a more spartan look... but too many shortcuts INSTEAD of buttons takes the mind away from the music work at hand (for me - I use a lot of tools!)... and if you think the tools upset new users? try getting them to memorize a thousand shortcut commands!

Yes, we'll all get faster as we learn where things are, but it's too much time/effort spent thinking about where is the tool (i.e. which shortcut to use) instead of a simple graphic that shows what it's all about....

I will not get changed in my opinion about this... this is a MAJOR drawback to x1 as is the snap2grid nightmare currently ....  And this is not me refusing to grow/change/learn... It's my refusal to work in what to me (and many others) in such an uncomfortable environment...

I trust in the Cakewalk team and believe they will rectify this as they are seeing how many people are troubled by this approach... I just can't see any reason this had to happen.... Making more shortcuts available... Great... but don't force them on us exclusively... We';re not talking one or two things here, we're talking about most of the abilities of Sonar... Now relegated to shortcuts and menus instead of buttons....

I'm glad some are happy with it... they could have given both easily and shipped it with either available as a default view... Then permitting us to change everything (Oh, wait... that was how it was in 8.5.... Why would anyone want to progress to something that customizable?

Keni

 

I guess you don't get it...

You could remove any/all those buttons in 8.5 if you wanted a more spartan look...
 
...I will not get changed in my opinion about this... this is a MAJOR drawback to x1 ...
 
...Making more shortcuts available... Great...
...but don't force them on us exclusively... We';re not talking one or two things here, we're talking about most of the abilities of Sonar... Now relegated to shortcuts and menus instead of buttons....

I'm glad some are happy with it... they could have given both easily and shipped it with either available as a default view...
Then permitting us to change everything (Oh, wait... that was how it was in 8.5.... Why would anyone want to progress to something that customizable?
 

 
+1,000,000,000.......
 
I gotta go on quoting those STRONG points, for it seems many of us don't seem to get THE issue...
 
AS WE ARE DIFFERENT PEOPLE, WITH DIFFERENT NEEDS... WE NEED CUSTOMIZATION, BACK AS IT WAS IN PREVIOUS VERSIONS............

Keni


I agree...

...(yes, I know I can continue to work in 8.5.... but with no hope for the future there)...

So I say again... this is definitely gonna be a deal breaker for many users... and if Cakewalk truly feels that limiting it's current abilities is the way of the future,... I'll be looking for a different future.... Sad to say as I've been with them so long...

But I still hold reverence for their' abilities and understanding and hope that so many voices stating these issues over and over will remind them... OK, if the decision wasn't the best... fix it!

I'm happy for those who are thrilled with X1... Now how about pleasing the other 90%?

 
 
 
Yeah... same feelings....
 
NEW features are great... but also (too) great are NEW limitations...
 
...Really Hope they make the new way and the old way meet... which is what SHOULD have been taken as a proper new starting point....
 
SONAR stood out from the crowd ALSO for those peculiarities/capabilities...
Now, far as that, it's become JUST one among the others....
 
...EVOLUTION not REVOLUTION (INVOLUTION, someways...).....................

Lunatique

gothic.angel

BTW, while you're working on it, also bring back a "dark skin" (v8.5 was terrific to the eyes...), and the classic Sonar LOGO... thanks... 

Agree 100%.

I don't understand why software developers feel this need to change what aint broken. The new X1 GUI, while in terms of shapes and colors, isn't bad at all, but in terms of value and contrast, why is it so much brighter? Who the hell likes a bright GUI? Almost every single person I know prefer their GUI to be as dark as possible as long as everything is readable. Darker GUI's are much easier on the eyes for when working long periods. And yes, the new icon/logo has no distinct contrast/shape/color and is very bland and hard to read/identify.

If you guys switched GUI designer for X1, then I highly suggest you hire the previous guy back. The previous version's GUI was by far my favorite of all Sonar versions, EVER.

I couldn't agree more!

+1000

cornieleous

  

Well said Keni. I do hope people on the forum and anyone who passes by from Cakewalk alike will start to realize we have in fact given X1 plenty of learning time. I have left X1 for 8.5.3 (and for the most part the forum) until things are fixed a bit. Some of the changes are indeed a step back-its just a fact, and I am not interested in hearing a chorus of people try to convince me otherwise without providing any substance to support their claims. Most of the people who seem to jump in and disagree seem to be using a small subset of features, so the right answer is to bring back customizations and make a basic and advanced default 'template' to please both kinds of user.

D

Hi "Corn"...

You hit the right point...

cornieleous

lorneyb2


A thought that just occurred to me while reading this thread would be to create a feature similar to Windows "send to desktop" or "create short cut" that we could drag to the space at the top of the different views. 

For example if turning on/off Aim assist, which is in a 3rd level sub menu, is something I would use a lot if I could select it, right click and chose "Send to TV Header" it would then put an icon in the space to the right of the V-Vocal menu.
In PRV you may want to put the Scrub tool to toggle on/off.  For me personally I would like to have the note pictures there(Whole, half, etc.)

This could accomplish the objective of still reducing the clutter that people complained about and we could customize our own clutter for the way we work. 

There is the whole collection of icons from 8.5 and before to be able to use for this function as well.

Maybe this type of approach could provide the middle ground between the new and old way of doing things. 

It seems way simpler to me to just put back toolbar (now called control bar) and menu customizations. There was quite a thorough and simple method for customizing nearly every single menu and toolbar in the program before X1. I assume you were aware of that? My 8.5 right click menus were very sparse and had only what I needed in the order I needed it. Setup time was about 15 minutes, and you could save this stuff and pass it to the next version. For some reason they decided this was bad and removed it in favor of arbitrary (to me) hard coded menus and toolbars.

D

...remember those GREAT "user 1, 2 and even 3" customizable toolbars", besides the standard ones...??


How could Cakewalk drop such a comfortable feature, considering it WAS already there, is something beyond logic....  


No peace for me....   

Strange how this thread has warped from track headers to tool bars........

Anyway I sing the praises of the things I like which is most of X1 but I'm not a fan of how inflexible the tool bar now is. Yes it disappears at the press of a C but I'd like to see it far more customizable similar to the old tool bars - not as small though or adjustable maybe.While we're at it I'd also like the tool bar settings to be 'remembered' in each individual screenset, 'cos in some I want it there and others I don't.

Feature request going in, I take it everyone else in this thread has already done that.......