Nick P
Max Output Level: -44 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3112
- Joined: 2006/09/01 18:08:09
- Location: Area code 392 - Arlington Hts, IL
- Status: offline
Please tell me about Reaper - The full scoop!
Since P5 is ending, I think this is appropriate. I've been hearing you guys mention this software so I checked it out a bit the other night. It looks great. Love the philosophy of the development team. Also, as in a recent post here, I like being able to skin it.
So what's it about? What are the downsides? It seems like a really cool program. Not from one of the big music software houses, but so what? Is there something I'm missing. Why isn't it more mainstream?
Bigger question - does anyone have any experience with how tight it handles unquantized MIDI and how easy it is to do drum patterns in it?
Cakewalk Forums - A Great Learning Resource For All Things Cakewalk!
|
techead
Max Output Level: -31.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4353
- Joined: 2004/01/24 08:40:20
- Location: Macomb, IL, USA
- Status: offline
RE: Please tell me about Reaper - The full scoop!
2009/05/12 19:12:41
(permalink)
I toyed with it. I tossed it. Not near as nice as Project5 and SONAR for me.
|
cityrat
Max Output Level: -77 dBFS
- Total Posts : 671
- Joined: 2004/01/08 11:57:56
- Status: offline
RE: Please tell me about Reaper - The full scoop!
2009/05/12 19:58:50
(permalink)
|
Nick P
Max Output Level: -44 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3112
- Joined: 2006/09/01 18:08:09
- Location: Area code 392 - Arlington Hts, IL
- Status: offline
RE: Please tell me about Reaper - The full scoop!
2009/05/12 20:20:57
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: cityrat
NickP - you would be better off just signing onto the forum: http://forum.cockos.com/forumdisplay.php?f=20
Really friendly place - lots of SONAR users there that you would recognize from these forums. Also check out the resources for skins: http://stash.reaper.fm/
Thanks, will do. Why can't Sonar have skins? I mean at least they could have styles such as "less drab", "even less drab", "almost cool enough for 30-somethings", "My DAW doesn't have to look like I'm a serious adult audio professional", etc. I mean Sonar's look - bo-or-ing.
Cakewalk Forums - A Great Learning Resource For All Things Cakewalk!
|
techead
Max Output Level: -31.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4353
- Joined: 2004/01/24 08:40:20
- Location: Macomb, IL, USA
- Status: offline
RE: Please tell me about Reaper - The full scoop!
2009/05/12 22:56:29
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: Nick P
Why can't Sonar have skins? I mean at least they could have styles such as "less drab", "even less drab", "almost cool enough for 30-somethings", "My DAW doesn't have to look like I'm a serious adult audio professional", etc. I mean Sonar's look - bo-or-ing.
You can make some changes to the color schemes and the layouts--very customizeable. Not quite the same thing as skinning but still useful.
Here are a collection of theme templates contributed by a variety of users as well as instructions:
http://sonartemplates.googlepages.com/home
http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=956469
|
Digital Aura
Max Output Level: -24 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5118
- Joined: 2004/01/18 13:30:46
- Location: Petrolia,Ontario ORIGINAL P5 FORUM JUNKIE
- Status: offline
RE: Please tell me about Reaper - The full scoop!
2009/05/13 09:12:19
(permalink)
It's actually the only 'OTHER' software sequencer that intrigues me... the screenshots alone show me that I like how it 'reveals' info ... automations for example. I have to admit, it looks aesthetically pleasing and I wonder if it works like it 'looks'.
|
jamester
Max Output Level: -61 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1481
- Joined: 2004/03/17 01:10:00
- Location: Baltimore, MD
- Status: offline
RE: Please tell me about Reaper - The full scoop!
2009/05/13 12:02:12
(permalink)
I've been using Reaper for a couple years now, I simply love it. It's not for everybody, especially not for people who like to work with a bunch of tools and don't like key-commands. It's also a more "utilitarian" interface, despite the skinning capabilities. But these are reasons I personally love it...
It is *highly* customizeable - you design your own workflow, through completely customizeable keybindings and macros. Once you get the hang of it, it's seriously fast. For audio recording/mixing it's outstanding, with practically unlimited routing possibilities. The midi side has come a long way, and for making beats it's awesome IMO: input quantize/swing, customizeable metronome, customizeable midi note styles, and it has a "clip based" way that is actually similar to P5's. You can also audition midi loops in the browser through selected instruments in the arrangement, which is great for auditioning drum loops.
I still use Live also, as Reaper is still more traditional in nature (like Sonar compared to P5), but down the road if I end up getting Maschine that may be the end of Live for me, but that's another story...
Purrrfect Audio DAW built by Jim Roseberry Edirol UA-1000, Korg PadKontrol, Dynaudio BM 5A's Reaper, Live, Sound Forge, Pyro
|
rcross
Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
- Total Posts : 252
- Joined: 2005/08/05 10:34:00
- Status: offline
RE: Please tell me about Reaper - The full scoop!
2009/05/13 13:04:46
(permalink)
To me reaper has very strong focus on audio and I found it not as thought out in terms of midi workflow. The midi editor itself is powerful enough - switches between piano roll and several flavors of drum map, couple of note entry modes, configurable automation lanes even step sequencer. However I did not find groove tools for midi like there are for audio - tab to transient, dynamics detection, etc. I felt that it was easier to build drum loops by sequencing audio clips for individual drum hits, than by using midi into drum sampler.
Comprehensive audio recording/comping tools, decent pitch correction via ReTune/ReaPitch.
Screensets is very handy tool - it allows to save several "quick-access" snapshots for arrange pane and for mixer pane with various settings persisted, like vertical or horizontal zoom, size of mixer, mixer track status, selection, etc. One could create "Arranging", "Mixing", "Composing" screensets to speed the navigation.
Audio and midi routing is very powerful, but it takes time to learn the system. Somebody here mentioned complexity of setting up multiout VSTi, but I did not find that to be any harder than Sonar.
One thing that was throwing me off for a while is that only a small portion of functionality is surfaced via toolbar or other onscreen tools. Most of the commands are either application menu or context menu (right-click) commands. Pretty much all commands can be assigned to keyboard shortcuts.
Included plugins are pretty nice, but you need to spend time learning them and building your own presets. For example ReaComp is capable of very serious action, but it surfaces more parameters than your average compressor. Then there is added bonus of Jesusonic - JScript like language for coding DSP of the plugins. Which comes with quite big library of JS plugins. Those are largely hit and miss.
Track template system is very similar to P5 device chains and P5'ers should find themselves at home with that. Support for DXi/DX is added bonus (anyone still using PsynII or Dim?)
Documentation is very good for a non-corporate product. It tends to lag behind major realeases, but at the moment stable reaper is at 2.58 and documentation is for 2.5. There are some video tutorials as well as pictorials.
It comes with installer, but if you are afraid of messing your system up, you could install on another computer, then just copy the folder over. It runs just fine without the installer, i.e. off the thumbdrive.
HTH.
|
Nick P
Max Output Level: -44 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3112
- Joined: 2006/09/01 18:08:09
- Location: Area code 392 - Arlington Hts, IL
- Status: offline
RE: Please tell me about Reaper - The full scoop!
2009/05/13 17:04:49
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: jamester
for making beats it's awesome IMO: input quantize/swing, customizeable metronome, customizeable midi note styles, and it has a "clip based" way that is actually similar to P5's. You can also audition midi loops in the browser through selected instruments in the arrangement, which is great for auditioning drum loops.
Good to see you back, jamester. This part of your comment interests me since I'm always looking for a better way to do drums. Really I'm looking for a way to do drums like a hardware MPC in software. Can you add and erase drums while the pattern loops? Can you kick in and out of record while the pattern loops?
Cakewalk Forums - A Great Learning Resource For All Things Cakewalk!
|
jamester
Max Output Level: -61 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1481
- Joined: 2004/03/17 01:10:00
- Location: Baltimore, MD
- Status: offline
RE: Please tell me about Reaper - The full scoop!
2009/05/13 20:46:24
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: Nick P
Good to see you back, jamester. This part of your comment interests me since I'm always looking for a better way to do drums. Really I'm looking for a way to do drums like a hardware MPC in software. Can you add and erase drums while the pattern loops? Can you kick in and out of record while the pattern loops?
Thanks  Yes to the second, record in/out while looping is no problem. As for adding/erasing it's a bit trickier, and the answer is both yes and no depending on whether you're recording audio or midi. Technically Reaper's audio engine has to be stopped for Undo to work; however, there is a macro for audio (freely assignable of course) that: stops the transport/erases the last take/rewinds back to playcursor/starts recording again. I have this assigned to to a button on my Axiom controller. For midi you have to erase notes manually with the mouse if you want to keep the pattern looping, I don't think there's an equivelant macro but now I'm gonna check on it... You can easily make drum maps, and there are already many available for GM, EZD, AD etc... Also what I love is that dbl-right-clicking on the piano roll (which has two different views as well) lets you type in a name for the note/slot, so you can map as you go (and then save it if you'd like, of course). On-the-fly drum mapping is awesome IMO. And like I said the midi's clip based; you can either select a loop region and record in it, or you can create the midi clips (of any length) first and then double-click them to work in their editor. This is how I worked in P5, better for me than Sonar's never-ending piano roll. When you open a midi clip in reaper's editor, it's only for that clip, so it always starts on the "1" of that clip if that makes sense. Also as noted in the post above, screensets are another fantastic feature. I have ones for just the arrangement, just the mixer, the arrangement with a "track inspector" on the side, and one with the Media Explorer on the left side for when I'm going through lots of samples. Again, it's all about a fast and customizeable workflow...
Purrrfect Audio DAW built by Jim Roseberry Edirol UA-1000, Korg PadKontrol, Dynaudio BM 5A's Reaper, Live, Sound Forge, Pyro
|
jamester
Max Output Level: -61 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1481
- Joined: 2004/03/17 01:10:00
- Location: Baltimore, MD
- Status: offline
RE: Please tell me about Reaper - The full scoop!
2009/05/13 20:56:10
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: rcross
The midi editor itself is powerful enough... However I did not find groove tools for midi like there are for audio - tab to transient, dynamics detection, etc. I felt that it was easier to build drum loops by sequencing audio clips for individual drum hits, than by using midi into drum sampler.
True there are no "groove tools" ala Reason or Live 8. As for tab-to-transient and dynamics detection, are these midi functions? Does P5 have this? I'm honestly asking, because I'm not that deep a midi user (just making beats and playing VI's), but I didn't know midi had transients. Personally I quite like making beats in Reaper through samplers (like Battery), but everybody's different... And it should be noted that for audio Reaper has these things in spades - slice either manually with tab-to-transients or automatically with adjustable dynamic slicing, drag slices from the track to any sample player (except Guru unfortunately, there's a bug) etc...native Rex support too!
Purrrfect Audio DAW built by Jim Roseberry Edirol UA-1000, Korg PadKontrol, Dynaudio BM 5A's Reaper, Live, Sound Forge, Pyro
|
rcross
Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
- Total Posts : 252
- Joined: 2005/08/05 10:34:00
- Status: offline
RE: Please tell me about Reaper - The full scoop!
2009/05/13 22:05:55
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: jamester
ORIGINAL: rcross
The midi editor itself is powerful enough... However I did not find groove tools for midi like there are for audio - tab to transient, dynamics detection, etc. I felt that it was easier to build drum loops by sequencing audio clips for individual drum hits, than by using midi into drum sampler.
True there are no "groove tools" ala Reason or Live 8. As for tab-to-transient and dynamics detection, are these midi functions? Does P5 have this? I'm honestly asking, because I'm not that deep a midi user (just making beats and playing VI's), but I didn't know midi had transients. Personally I quite like making beats in Reaper through samplers (like Battery), but everybody's different...
I meant that reaper has extensive groove tools for audio, but does not have equivalent groove functionality for midi. For example, like midi integration in Sonar's audiosnap. ORIGINAL: jamester
And it should be noted that for audio Reaper has these things in spades - slice either manually with tab-to-transients or automatically with adjustable dynamic slicing, drag slices from the track to any sample player (except Guru unfortunately, there's a bug) etc...native Rex support too!
Totally with you here. What I meant is that to look at reaper from just midi sequencing perspective, is to miss on extensive audio capabilities. P5 was (is) very comfy with midid editing tools, and most of P5 users habitually program beats in midi. With reaper different set of possibilities is available in form of audio sequencing.
|
Susan G
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 12016
- Joined: 2003/11/05 22:49:26
- Location: Putnam County, NY
- Status: offline
RE: Please tell me about Reaper - The full scoop!
2009/05/14 00:17:25
(permalink)
I don't program beats, but I do like the ability to try out different arrangements of a song using pattern-based sequencing. P5 kind of fell off the radar for me, but FL Studio works well for this.
REAPER, IMO, isn't in the same league with P5, FLS, or SONAR when it comes to MIDI editing.
-Susan
2.30 gigahertz Intel Core i7-3610QM; 16 GB RAMWindows 10 x64; NI Komplete Audio 6.SONAR Platinum (Lexington) x64
|
DayDrumFour
Max Output Level: -68 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1112
- Joined: 2005/05/10 02:43:34
- Location: Philadelphia, PA
- Status: offline
RE: Please tell me about Reaper - The full scoop!
2009/05/14 00:23:23
(permalink)
I am seriously interested in Reaper. Been reading up a lot on this one. It seems more simple than complex.
Some questions for y'all....
1. Skinning - do I edit images with Photoshop or similar, or am I "programming" a look? What's the basic concept.
2. Midi learn - Is there a page like P5 where I can see what I've assigned? Or do I have to just remember what I setup like Sonar.
3. Is there a synth rack? Or is it track based like P5?
4. Does it really only cost fifty bucks?
I have authentic analog drum machine samples.
|
Nick P
Max Output Level: -44 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3112
- Joined: 2006/09/01 18:08:09
- Location: Area code 392 - Arlington Hts, IL
- Status: offline
RE: Please tell me about Reaper - The full scoop!
2009/05/14 02:48:25
(permalink)
Sounds like a pretty bad-ass program.
Cakewalk Forums - A Great Learning Resource For All Things Cakewalk!
|
jamester
Max Output Level: -61 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1481
- Joined: 2004/03/17 01:10:00
- Location: Baltimore, MD
- Status: offline
RE: Please tell me about Reaper - The full scoop!
2009/05/14 03:05:31
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: DayDrumFour
Some questions for y'all....
1. Skinning - do I edit images with Photoshop or similar, or am I "programming" a look? What's the basic concept.
2. Midi learn - Is there a page like P5 where I can see what I've assigned? Or do I have to just remember what I setup like Sonar.
3. Is there a synth rack? Or is it track based like P5?
4. Does it really only cost fifty bucks?
1. I haven't gotten much into the skinning, but basically yeah it's photoshop images not coding. The upcoming v.3 is able to let you drag-n-drop images onto a track as well, but again this isn't something I've messed with. 2. Not sure if there's one master list, but you can look up any action/macro and it'll show all the assignments for it. For CC's you just call up the Action and then hit your controller and it's assigned. 3. No synth rack, track based like P5. 4. Yes for a non-commercial license. The commercial license is $225, but there are no concrete qualifications; Justin says if you're making money off of using Reaper, you should have the commercial license. The whole thing's on the honor system anyways, it's only nag-screen protected. Also cool is that your license is good for two version cycles, so for instance I bought in at v.1, and now I'm only paying again for v.3 when it comes out. Speaking of versions, I should also say that Reaper's not for people who aren't into the idea of a constantly evolving/updating product cycle. There is no "yearly paid update" system, in fact it is in a continual state of upgrading. Checking in for a newer 'point version' becomes part of the experience, and I've literally seen new features added overnight. Of course you never *have* to update, but the constant evolution is kind of fun IMO. And it also means that bugs and such (which are actually pretty rare) get taken care of immediately.
Purrrfect Audio DAW built by Jim Roseberry Edirol UA-1000, Korg PadKontrol, Dynaudio BM 5A's Reaper, Live, Sound Forge, Pyro
|
Nick P
Max Output Level: -44 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3112
- Joined: 2006/09/01 18:08:09
- Location: Area code 392 - Arlington Hts, IL
- Status: offline
RE: Please tell me about Reaper - The full scoop!
2009/05/14 03:16:36
(permalink)
I like the whole vibe of it. But still I'll probably wind up with Cubase 5 as my main DAW app. Still, I'll also probably purchase the non-commercial license for Reaper.
Cakewalk Forums - A Great Learning Resource For All Things Cakewalk!
|
Brandon Ryan [Roland]
Max Output Level: -40.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3458
- Joined: 2003/11/06 03:29:12
- Location: Los Angeles, CA
- Status: offline
RE: Please tell me about Reaper - The full scoop!
2009/05/14 12:32:49
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: Nick P
I like the whole vibe of it. But still I'll probably wind up with Cubase 5 as my main DAW app. Still, I'll also probably purchase the non-commercial license for Reaper.
Nick, why not consider SONAR? I wish I could give details, but you may very well be interested in what's in store.
"The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel." WG SONAR Platinum | VS-700 | A-800 PRO | PCAL i7 with SSD running Windows 8 x64 | Samsung 27" LCD @ 1920x1080 | Blue Sky monitors with BMC | All kinds of other stuff
|
Brandon Ryan [Roland]
Max Output Level: -40.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3458
- Joined: 2003/11/06 03:29:12
- Location: Los Angeles, CA
- Status: offline
RE: Please tell me about Reaper - The full scoop!
2009/05/14 12:41:08
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: DayDrumFour
I am seriously interested in Reaper. Been reading up a lot on this one. It seems more simple than complex.
Some questions for y'all....
1. Skinning - do I edit images with Photoshop or similar, or am I "programming" a look? What's the basic concept.
2. Midi learn - Is there a page like P5 where I can see what I've assigned? Or do I have to just remember what I setup like Sonar.
3. Is there a synth rack? Or is it track based like P5?
4. Does it really only cost fifty bucks?
2) There isn't anything like ACT control. Incidentally you don't have to remember everything in SONAR either as the ACT properties page will show you what is assigned. No need to remember although I setup my controllers to always have certain types of controls placed on particular knobs/sliders. 4) Honor system or not, if you plan on making any money with Reaper my understanding is that you should pay the $225.
"The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel." WG SONAR Platinum | VS-700 | A-800 PRO | PCAL i7 with SSD running Windows 8 x64 | Samsung 27" LCD @ 1920x1080 | Blue Sky monitors with BMC | All kinds of other stuff
|
cryophonik
Max Output Level: -28 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4724
- Joined: 2006/04/03 17:28:17
- Location: Elk Grove, CA
- Status: offline
RE: Please tell me about Reaper - The full scoop!
2009/05/14 13:00:40
(permalink)
Ooh! I'm interested in what's in store and I won't tell if you give us the details, Brandon.  Nick - as far as Cubase goes, I've stayed current on it and just finished a couple of projects in Cubase 5 that nearly caused me to explode - for example, it took 2 hours to export my final mixdown of one song because Cubase kept freezing and crashing, I had to keep rebooting, etc.  And, Cubase is still behind Sonar in many areas, particularly on the creative/compositional side of its workflow IMO. Now, these are just my experiences and opinions and I do like Cubase 5 in many ways, but the point is, you're deluding yourself if you think that the grass is greener over there. Steinberg simply does not listen to its user base, even when they are asking for very minor and simple features that would vastly improve its usability - go search for feature request threads over there and see for yourself how many of those are answered by fellow users with something like "yeah, we've been asking for that for years, but SB doesn't listen." And if you think the Sonar forums are bad, wait until you get a taste of the Steinberg forums. There's a very good reason that I've only posted a few dozen times in the past 6 years or so over there.
|
Brandon Ryan [Roland]
Max Output Level: -40.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3458
- Joined: 2003/11/06 03:29:12
- Location: Los Angeles, CA
- Status: offline
RE: Please tell me about Reaper - The full scoop!
2009/05/14 13:05:45
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: cryophonik
Ooh! I'm interested in what's in store and I won't tell if you give us the details, Brandon.
Ah I appreciate your confidentiality. In that case here's what we're working on: A particularly exciting development is... damn hold on I think I hear the kettle. 
"The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel." WG SONAR Platinum | VS-700 | A-800 PRO | PCAL i7 with SSD running Windows 8 x64 | Samsung 27" LCD @ 1920x1080 | Blue Sky monitors with BMC | All kinds of other stuff
|
VaporCom
Max Output Level: -87 dBFS
- Total Posts : 169
- Joined: 2006/06/10 12:05:24
- Status: offline
RE: Please tell me about Reaper - The full scoop!
2009/05/14 14:41:09
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk]
ORIGINAL: Nick P
I like the whole vibe of it. But still I'll probably wind up with Cubase 5 as my main DAW app. Still, I'll also probably purchase the non-commercial license for Reaper.
Nick, why not consider SONAR? I wish I could give details, but you may very well be interested in what's in store.
Wow.... you guys do actually read this part of the forums. After so long, and so many unanswered posts and questions, its nice to see you havent forgot where one of your most loyal groups hang out. When can we expect some kind of details on whats in store?
|
cryophonik
Max Output Level: -28 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4724
- Joined: 2006/04/03 17:28:17
- Location: Elk Grove, CA
- Status: offline
RE: Please tell me about Reaper - The full scoop!
2009/05/14 14:48:04
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk]
In that case here's what we're working on:
A particularly exciting development is...damn hold on I think I hear the kettle.
Kettle, huh? That must be a hint.
|
VaporCom
Max Output Level: -87 dBFS
- Total Posts : 169
- Joined: 2006/06/10 12:05:24
- Status: offline
RE: Please tell me about Reaper - The full scoop!
2009/05/14 14:50:16
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: cryophonik
ORIGINAL: Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk]
In that case here's what we're working on:
A particularly exciting development is...damn hold on I think I hear the kettle.
Kettle, huh? That must be a hint.
The new secret has been leaked...... Be prepared for .......PROJECT T-Bag
post edited by VaporCom - 2009/05/14 14:59:41
|
Brandon Ryan [Roland]
Max Output Level: -40.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3458
- Joined: 2003/11/06 03:29:12
- Location: Los Angeles, CA
- Status: offline
RE: Please tell me about Reaper - The full scoop!
2009/05/14 14:59:32
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: VaporCom
ORIGINAL: cryophonik
ORIGINAL: Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk]
In that case here's what we're working on:
A particularly exciting development is...damn hold on I think I hear the kettle.
Kettle, huh? That must be a hint.
The new secret has been leaked......
Be prepared for .......PROJECT T-Bag
LOL!
"The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel." WG SONAR Platinum | VS-700 | A-800 PRO | PCAL i7 with SSD running Windows 8 x64 | Samsung 27" LCD @ 1920x1080 | Blue Sky monitors with BMC | All kinds of other stuff
|
Nick P
Max Output Level: -44 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3112
- Joined: 2006/09/01 18:08:09
- Location: Area code 392 - Arlington Hts, IL
- Status: offline
RE: Please tell me about Reaper - The full scoop!
2009/05/14 15:11:09
(permalink)
You guys are seriously persuading me to pull out the credit card for the $130 Sonar 8 upgrade. Brandon - I do have Sonar and have purchased Sonar in this order: Sonar 4 HSXL, Sonar 5 Studio, Sonar 6 PE, Sonar 7 PE. My biggest gripe is that I perceive when I record unquantized MIDI parts, they don't play back with the same accuracy with which I played them in. Also, there is a general groove that a DAW has. I.e. program a basic pop/funk drum pattern in the Step Sequencer (hard quantized) and listen to it back. It just sits there. As illogical as it seems, I perceive that some other DAWs would actually make the same material feel a bit better on the groove side.
HOWEVER.....This issue has been mitigated to some degree with the availability of MOTU's BPM, which, although would require operating as a plug-in with Sonar, addresses the drum/groove thing.
Also, Sonar's Step Sequencer really isn't ready for prime time. What we need is something more along the lines of Project5's pattern sequencer. Where you can record in real time with looping. Where you can kick in and out of record. In other words, you guys need to get your hands on an MPC, see what makes it work, and put that in Sonar.
Cry - Thanks for the heads up on Cubase 5. I've heard these complaints before and I believe them to be credible.
The great thing about BPM is that it makes your DAW choice more neutral. What I wonder about is how easy it is to switch back and forth between the DAW and BPM when working on a track. For example, I'm doing a bass part. I get to the bar before the bridge. I realize I hate the drum fill I programmed. I need to take out 1 tom hit and 1 hi-hat hit. How much switching do I need to do to make that happen? If everything is in the same DAW just on different tracks, the answer is not much (however Sonar's Step Sequencer has this nasty habit of not following you around when you switch tracks - hopefully being fixed). With a plug-in doing your drums, I wonder how this would work.
Anyway, these posts lead me towards a $130 Sonar upgrade and the purchase of BPM. That comes out $100 less than Cubase, so I'm $80 away from Sonar 9 in September.
Cakewalk Forums - A Great Learning Resource For All Things Cakewalk!
|
Brandon Ryan [Roland]
Max Output Level: -40.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3458
- Joined: 2003/11/06 03:29:12
- Location: Los Angeles, CA
- Status: offline
RE: Please tell me about Reaper - The full scoop!
2009/05/14 15:44:25
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: Nick P
You guys are seriously persuading me to pull out the credit card for the $130 Sonar 8 upgrade. Brandon - I do have Sonar and have purchased Sonar in this order: Sonar 4 HSXL, Sonar 5 Studio, Sonar 6 PE, Sonar 7 PE. My biggest gripe is that I perceive when I record unquantized MIDI parts, they don't play back with the same accuracy with which I played them in. Also, there is a general groove that a DAW has. I.e. program a basic pop/funk drum pattern in the Step Sequencer (hard quantized) and listen to it back. It just sits there. As illogical as it seems, I perceive that some other DAWs would actually make the same material feel a bit better on the groove side.
HOWEVER.....This issue has been mitigated to some degree with the availability of MOTU's BPM, which, although would require operating as a plug-in with Sonar, addresses the drum/groove thing.
Also, Sonar's Step Sequencer really isn't ready for prime time. What we need is something more along the lines of Project5's pattern sequencer. Where you can record in real time with looping. Where you can kick in and out of record. In other words, you guys need to get your hands on an MPC, see what makes it work, and put that in Sonar.
Cry - Thanks for the heads up on Cubase 5. I've heard these complaints before and I believe them to be credible.
The great thing about BPM is that it makes your DAW choice more neutral. What I wonder about is how easy it is to switch back and forth between the DAW and BPM when working on a track. For example, I'm doing a bass part. I get to the bar before the bridge. I realize I hate the drum fill I programmed. I need to take out 1 tom hit and 1 hi-hat hit. How much switching do I need to do to make that happen? If everything is in the same DAW just on different tracks, the answer is not much (however Sonar's Step Sequencer has this nasty habit of not following you around when you switch tracks - hopefully being fixed). With a plug-in doing your drums, I wonder how this would work.
Anyway, these posts lead me towards a $130 Sonar upgrade and the purchase of BPM. That comes out $100 less than Cubase, so I'm $80 away from Sonar 9 in September.
Ah thanks for the info on your SONAR buying experience. I should have realized this as I remember our conversations about the Step Sequencer when SONAR 7 came out. Anyway, it sounds like a good plan you've come up with. I also take your comments regarding pattern sequencing to heart. As far as the MIDI timing, I'm not sure I can corroborate or refute what you are saying with any real confidence. I can't say I've noticed this myself, but you have my word that I will address it with the Dev team. I agree with your point about BPM working to mitigate some of these issues. And it does seem like an awfully cool product to boot. I will say that $130 for an upgrade to 8 is a pretty good deal and I'd be surprised if you regretted it. And as you allude to, it gets you in line for the next developments in SONAR.
"The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel." WG SONAR Platinum | VS-700 | A-800 PRO | PCAL i7 with SSD running Windows 8 x64 | Samsung 27" LCD @ 1920x1080 | Blue Sky monitors with BMC | All kinds of other stuff
|
Nick P
Max Output Level: -44 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3112
- Joined: 2006/09/01 18:08:09
- Location: Area code 392 - Arlington Hts, IL
- Status: offline
RE: Please tell me about Reaper - The full scoop!
2009/05/14 16:35:21
(permalink)
Will Cakewalk retain the customer or will he bolt to the competitor? Stay tuned. Must applaud Brandon on a great marketing effort here. Shows a very basic business principle - market share is won one customer at a time!
Cry - I was just thinking as I ran an errand. I hear this almost typical rap about Cubase, mostly on the Sonar forum, which is understandable. But I have to ask myself. If this is such a lame product, why is it so successful, gets good reviews, is used by many pros, and continues to evolve with what look to me to be very innovative and useful features? I don't see an add-on like Groove Agent 1/Beat Designer in Sonar, Logic, DP, or PT. Putting the tempo track right on the main track screen seems quite intelligent to me. Do the other products have this? Hasn't Cubase had a one track per synth option for some time now? Cakewalk just added it in Sonar 8. When Play Order Tracks was introduced, it gave at least some pattern-oriented arranging features to an otherwise linear-based DAW. Do any of the other linear-based DAWs offer anything similar? And for orchestral work, the ability to change articulations all within one track seems very efficient. Again, first to market on this.
I see the same posts on the Sonar forum - Sonar freezes, Sonar crashes, Sonar loses my work, Sonar this, Sonar that. Really, I would say all of these programs are less than bulletproof. I again use my early days of automobiles analogy: In those days, people who owned cars had to know how to mechanic on them or else they'd risk being stuck on the side of the road. Today, obviously, if you get in a brand new Camry, your chances of getting stuck are much, much, less. Almost zero. I look forward to the day when DAWs like Sonar and Cubase get to that point.
Bottom line: Ultimately my decision will be based on what my gut tells me, which is not the way I've often made decisions in the past, including getting started with Sonar a few years ago. I've never regretted gut decisions. So maybe I'll skip the upgrade to 8 and see if 9 is so amazing that it'll make me pull out the credit card. What we do know is that the final version of 9 won't show up until at least NAMM 2010. In the meantime, there is a lot of productive time to be used. My gut tells me to use it with Cubase 5 instead of Sonar 8.
But stay tuned, I guess, if anyone is really interested.
Cakewalk Forums - A Great Learning Resource For All Things Cakewalk!
|
cryophonik
Max Output Level: -28 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4724
- Joined: 2006/04/03 17:28:17
- Location: Elk Grove, CA
- Status: offline
RE: Please tell me about Reaper - The full scoop!
2009/05/14 17:51:05
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: Nick P
I see the same posts on the Sonar forum - Sonar freezes, Sonar crashes, Sonar loses my work, Sonar this, Sonar that. Really, I would say all of these programs are less than bulletproof.
Exactly, and that was more or less the point I was trying to make. Like I said, I like Sonar and I like Cubase, but one is not inherently better than the other, one is not more professional than the other and each have their share of issues, which is one reason why I like the flexibility of owning both. That said, I use Sonar for 90%+ of my work nowadays primarily because its workflow is much better for me, and because it has MUCH better plugins than Cubase has and Sonar is far more stable on my machine.
|
candlesayshi
Max Output Level: -77 dBFS
- Total Posts : 694
- Joined: 2008/02/01 00:00:55
- Location: Chicago, IL
- Status: offline
RE: Please tell me about Reaper - The full scoop!
2009/05/14 19:13:53
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: VaporCom
Wow.... you guys do actually read this part of the forums. After so long, and so many unanswered posts and questions, its nice to see you havent forgot where one of your most loyal groups hang out.
I always just assumed it was more of a "we shouldn't talk about this in the open until we figure out what we're going to do" kind of thing.
|