KamiM
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Plugins cause latency
Ok so I'm using a Focusrite 2i2 and I had to download asio4all in order to use my speakers to monitor, and I have 21 tracks total for a cover and the thing is,already having latency. I don't know why it is, but I can't use just 4 plugins I need more, but when I use at least 10 the damn thing starts skipping. I have the Asio4all settings at 2048samples and 20 for the buffer but it keeps skipping. Is there any way that I can fix this issue or ?
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Danny Danzi
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Re: Plugins cause latency
2015/10/29 16:11:39
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What version of Sonar? What plugins? I have 0 problems with ASIO4ALL on 3 of my machines where I do lots of testing. 2048 will give you latency if you are trying to record. I drop mine down to 64 without any issues and get 0 latency and can use quite a few plugins before things start to skip for me. At 2048, I have no problems playing huge projects of more than 21 tracks. We need to check into what your ASIO4ALL settings are as well as your Sonar options. That said, I'm experiencing latency with 2 plugins using the latest version of Sonar Plat with 2 tracks. I've sent my findings to Cake support but have not heard anything as of now. I switched back to the last release and all is well again. That's why I asked what version of Sonar. A few others have reported plugin latency issues in another thread. So if it's the latest release of Sonar Platinum, that *could* be your issue and it depends on what plugs are used. Do you have any other version of Sonar to try things out on? This may not help you, but this is how my ASIO4ALL settings are. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4909348/Sonar%26Asio4allSettings.JPG  Hope that may help a bit. -Danny
My Site Fractal Audio Endorsed Artist & Beta Tester
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bitflipper
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Re: Plugins cause latency
2015/10/29 19:25:39
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Why not monitor directly off the Focusrite, through headphones? You wouldn't need to use ASIO4All, which may be actually calling the MME driver - lots of latency there! At any rate, latency isn't your problem. Dropouts are your problem.
If you're getting dropouts at 2048 samples, there's probably something interfering with your audio interface. The prime suspect: your laptop's wi-fi adapter. Disable it and see if the dropouts go away. (I'm just assuming you're using a laptop, your avatar looks like a laptop user.)
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Doktor Avalanche 
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Re: Plugins cause latency
2015/10/29 20:11:19
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Don't use ASIO4ALL, uninstall. Focusrite supply perfectly good drivers and ASIO4ALL is likely to conflict with them. Use your line outputs from your 2i2 for monitoring. ASIO4ALL is for people who don't have ASIO supported interfaces, the clue is in the title. And in most cases you are better off running MME in that scenario (fortunately you aren't in it).
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/10/29 20:25:05
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
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KamiM
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Re: Plugins cause latency
2015/10/29 20:49:03
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Ok so it is best to monitor through the headphones on the asio driver for the focusrite? How will I be able to monitor through my speakers? Also my avatar is actually a desktop hp touchscreen kinda girl heehee so no laptop there. Should I turn off my wifi then? Am I better off doing MME rather doing ASIO4ALL?
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KamiM
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Re: Plugins cause latency
2015/10/29 20:58:34
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i'M ALSO using the Jamaican Plain update? I suppose a picture of what my settings and project look like would suffice:) Also when I meant monitor by speakers I meant listen to it from my computer's speakers. Here is what i am working with. Do I have too many plugins or tracks? Should i nix the ASIO4all and just use the Focusrite drivers? Are my settings ok? Do I have to start my project over? -sobs in despair http://screencast.com/t/AK7gs7z0J http://screencast.com/t/xHhiV3iAMxJ http://screencast.com/t/7kuxEVGDFa
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Danny Danzi
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Re: Plugins cause latency
2015/10/29 22:00:18
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Just to clarify....what the others have told you about ASIO4ALL is correct. If you have a Focusrite there is no need for ASIO4ALL. I use it because my little internet test boxes do not have pro interfaces. They have stock Realtek cards in them and ASIO4ALL works perfectly for me.
Looking at your screen shots, take the checks out of the boxes for "read cache" and "write cache" unless you are using an older, slower hard drive. Anything 7200 RPM or faster will work fine without those checks in the boxes.
Also, you can change from "Full chase lock" to "trigger and freewheel" instead. There are no promises that stuff will work, but it's how Sonar should be set up and what has worked for me on all my machines.
Your Focusrite using ASIO should be great for you. If you are experiencing issues after using that, like I said in my initial post....it could be an issue with Sonar. Try reverting back to the last build and see if you still have the problem. That is what I had to do until the issue is fixed for my particular problem.
So just to be clear....since you have a good interface, use the Focusrite drivers using ASIO mode. Uninstall ASIO4ALL as you should not need that. In my 3 good recording computers, I do not use ASIO4ALL because I have great interfaces which allow me to use ASIO. I only use ASIO4ALL in my machines that do not have ASIO sound cards. Good luck.
-Danny
My Site Fractal Audio Endorsed Artist & Beta Tester
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KamiM
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Re: Plugins cause latency
2015/10/29 22:05:10
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So exactly how could I go back to the previous version? I think sonar is,a problem cause I even tried MME and the,Focusrite driver and still had latency
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KamiM
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Re: Plugins cause latency
2015/10/30 02:08:25
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Well looks like I have lost all faith in sonar. As much I want to say that things were going well they became worse. I took off asio4all and when I tried to use the focusrite driver I got latency again. I tried doing MME so I could have my computer speaker as an output but the latency was truly upsetting. I'm honestly thinking about ditching my focusrite and going back to using my blue yeti plug and play. It's either that and delete all my plugins in the project and start completely over...which I'm not doing(I worked too hard on that project)
Thinking about uninstalling Sonar from my system entirely. Run time terminated it before it could even start up. I went back to the Ipswich update and still the problem was the same. I'm honestly very disappointed and hate it came to this. Finding another software will take a lot of money and right now I just don't have the funds at all. I don't have any money to put up for a computer and will not let Sonar be the cause of it dying on me.
Thanks for all the help, but Sonar lost a fan tonight. I'm deeply depressed and disappointed.
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KamiM
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Re: Plugins cause latency
2015/10/30 02:57:55
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So I just deleted every plugin from the project and it "magically" cut out the dropouts and latency. I reinstalled sonar but it's taking awhile for it to start up. It sucks because the waves plugins I have are cracked from a friend, but it seems I may have to restart my computer to factory settings and erase all of my work just to get sonar working properly.
Im trying to think of other solutions, but it's inevitable at this point I suppose. I got the waves plugins because they are really good but it seems they apparently cause too much latency.this makes my workflow a lot tougher and less motivating. I have Windows10 Hp Touch smart and honestly I'm not entirely sure how to fix this. asio4all was working "OK" but not great but at least my sonar didn't freeze,every 5 minutes
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KamiM
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Re: Plugins cause latency
2015/10/30 03:29:48
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WELL I GAVE UP! I JUST WENT AHEAD RESET THE ENTIRE COMPUTER. THE PLUGIN FILES, ALL MY PROJECTS PICTURE ETC. ARE ALL GONE NOW. I feel like total crap and I only hope I can get back to where I was. I had so many projects that weren' t finished. I really liked using my wave plugins, and i really don't like the built in plugins in sonar, but I guess I'll have to change how I work
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tlw
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Re: Plugins cause latency
2015/10/30 07:12:14
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kamelodic It sucks because the waves plugins I have are cracked from a friend
Is your copy of Sonar "cracked from a friend" as well by any chance? As for plugins causing latency, yes some do. Some because they put a heavy load on the PC and the audio interface buffer has to be increased to avoid dropouts. Some because the plugin itself requires a certain amount of time to work. As a rule, plugins that cause a lot of latency are things with a look-ahead function, though there are others as well. Generally speaking you're better off not using those plugins while tracking. Use something else that does the job while tracking, then load the latency-causing plugin when you start mixing. Waves are unusual in that they do actually tell you how much latency their plugins cause. Though once you're using cracked stuff all bets are off.
Sonar Platinum 64bit, Windows 8.1 Pro 64bit, I7 3770K Ivybridge, 16GB Ram, Gigabyte Z77-D3H m/board, ATI 7750 graphics+ 1GB RAM, 2xIntel 520 series 220GB SSDs, 1 TB Samsung F3 + 1 TB WD HDDs, Seasonic fanless 460W psu, RME Fireface UFX, Focusrite Octopre. Assorted real synths, guitars, mandolins, diatonic accordions, percussion, fx and other stuff.
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pwalpwal
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Re: Plugins cause latency
2015/10/30 07:50:18
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bitflipper
Why not monitor directly off the Focusrite, through headphones? You wouldn't need to use ASIO4All, which may be actually calling the MME driver
NO! asio4all is a WDM wrapper, nothing to do with mme, be careful of that facebook favourite, distortion of truth by association!
post edited by pwalpwal - 2015/10/30 08:01:34
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pwalpwal
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Re: Plugins cause latency
2015/10/30 07:52:25
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(what's up with embedding yt vids btw?)
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KamiM
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Re: Plugins cause latency
2015/10/30 10:09:19
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tlw
kamelodic It sucks because the waves plugins I have are cracked from a friend
Is your copy of Sonar "cracked from a friend" as well by any chance?
As for plugins causing latency, yes some do. Some because they put a heavy load on the PC and the audio interface buffer has to be increased to avoid dropouts. Some because the plugin itself requires a certain amount of time to work. As a rule, plugins that cause a lot of latency are things with a look-ahead function, though there are others as well. Generally speaking you're better off not using those plugins while tracking. Use something else that does the job while tracking, then load the latency-causing plugin when you start mixing.
Waves are unusual in that they do actually tell you how much latency their plugins cause. Though once you're using cracked stuff all bets are off.
Can you please tell me kind sir how to do the tracking thing? What plugins should I use while tracking? I'm still a beginner and don't know what tracking means? I just reset the entire system and I'm going to make sure it is clean in every folder to ensure faster runtime
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batsbrew
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Re: Plugins cause latency
2015/10/30 10:54:03
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☄ Helpfulby pwalpwal 2015/10/30 11:05:32
using cracked software leads to upsettedness.
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KamiM
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Re: Plugins cause latency
2015/10/30 11:26:21
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batsbrew
using cracked software leads to upsettedness.
I think I got that. Now about an answer to my tracking questions?
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pwalpwal
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Re: Plugins cause latency
2015/10/30 12:07:05
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kamelodic
batsbrew
using cracked software leads to upsettedness.
I think I got that. Now about an answer to my tracking questions?
are you a saudi prince?
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KamiM
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Re: Plugins cause latency
2015/10/30 13:12:27
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pwalpwal
kamelodic
batsbrew
using cracked software leads to upsettedness.
I think I got that. Now about an answer to my tracking questions?
are you a saudi prince?
NO. I'm a 24 year old female otaku and kpop junkie, who's African American and Asian mixed with good diction and nearly precise syntax. I'm just trying to get answers to my questions , and I don't see what this has to do with anything. Im sorry and don't mean to be rash, BUT I HAD JUST HAD TO FACTORY RESET MY SYSTEM AND LOSE ALL MY PERSONAL FILES!!! I would just really like the answer to my DAMN QUESTION, so I can get back to doing what I love. So is there anyone who can answer my question? Someone helpful please. My question pertains to this: "Generally speaking you're better off not using those plugins while tracking. Use something else that does the job while tracking, then load the latency-causing plugin when you start mixing" Can someone explain to what this means and how I do it? Thank You
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batsbrew
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Re: Plugins cause latency
2015/10/30 13:53:31
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i never use plugs of any type, while tracking.
i leave all plugs out of the equation, to get the most power from my real time processing of the actual sound data.
if you just HAVE to have effects while tracking,
i suggest using an interface that has built in DSP that does not print, allowing 'zero latency' monitoring,
and then those problems will disappear.
most folks do not need to have effects on to capture miced up performances,
and most midi performances can be 'frozen' to wav file temporarily to facilitate continued tracking.
save all the plugs, for mixdown.
and don't mixdown, until you've finished tracking (recording live performances).
the issue of using cracked software, is that it often leads to more problems than they are worth,
especially if your drivers are not up to date (which you cannot update certain software without legitimate licenses), not to mention it's simply illegal, and if you are going to use cracked software, do not mention it here.
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bapu
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Re: Plugins cause latency
2015/10/30 14:16:18
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Why, yes they do. Excellent sleuth job.
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Jesse Screed
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Re: Plugins cause latency
2015/10/30 19:20:55
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hello kamelodic, I can understand why you are frustrated. I wish I could personally help you, but I am new to Sonar too. However, listen to what the other senior forum members say and ask. They will do their best, but the can't do it for you because they are not sitting there with you.
I personally have watched a ton of videos to learn more, and I have had to start over from scratch more than once. It took me 6 months to figure out how to even record audio consistently.
So although you are very frustrated I suggest to relax a little.
Also, as far as cracked software goes; imagine it like this, if you get a recording contract, and you have a hit song and everyone rips it for free from other sites, and you don't get your just rewards for all your work, would you like that?
I believe in you, you can do this, the learning curve is steep, but the personal rewards are great, so be patient. It will work out if you take the time to allow it to.
I can't wait to hear your first song!
Jesse
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KamiM
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Re: Plugins cause latency
2015/10/30 22:27:53
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Jesse Screed
hello kamelodic, I can understand why you are frustrated. I wish I could personally help you, but I am new to Sonar too., listen to what the other senior forum members say and ask. They will do their best, but the can't do it for you because they are not sitting there with you.
I personally have watched a ton of videos to learn more, and I have had to start over from scratch more than once. It took me 6 months to figure out how to even record audio consistently.
So although you are very frustrated I suggest to relax a little.
Also, as far as cracked software goes; imagine it like this, if you get a recording contract, and you have a hit song and everyone rips it for free from other sites, and you don't get your just rewards for all your work, would you like that?
I believe in you, you can do this, the learning curve is steep, but the personal rewards are great, so be patient. It will work out if you take the time to allow it to.
I can't wait to hear your first song!
Jesse
I understand that but I'm trying to do as best as I can. I don't have much money so I get where I can get but things aren't fullproof. Way I see it you don't have to sit with me to tell me how to track properly. I just wanted to know how to do that, since all my hard work is gone. I have NOTHING and instead of helpful advice...i have some pion...asking me if i am "a saudi prince"? Whatever happened to people just simply answering a question? Sometimes every is not rich and can afford everything; so please don't lecture me about the software OK? That's not why I'm here. I don't expect to be coddled, but an answer to how to track properly would be a great. I'm already deterred and beaten down as is... So can I please just get an answer to my question? And if not...then I think I'll take my chances by following my own way...without the sarcasm and beligerence. im new just like you, but my mother always taught me... If you can't say anything that will help...don't call yourself a wise man.
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Danny Danzi
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Re: Plugins cause latency
2015/10/30 23:30:29
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☄ Helpfulby ohgrant 2015/10/30 23:56:22
Did your mother also teach you manners? I've tried to help you a few times in this thread and you didn't even have the decency to answer my questions or even say thank you. You, your rants and your posts no longer exist to me.
My Site Fractal Audio Endorsed Artist & Beta Tester
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KamiM
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Re: Plugins cause latency
2015/10/30 23:37:54
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Danny Danzi
Did your mother also teach you manners? I've tried to help you a few times in this thread and you didn't even have the decency to answer my questions or even say thank you. You, your rants and your posts no longer exist to me.
Your help was nice but rolling back only made it worse im afraid. I don't recall not answering your questions, but if I overlooked it I apologize. But before anything... Do not contradict my manners just because I spoke against people who judge based off of inferiority. Bad enough I'm a girl here, and honestly I'm glad I don't exist to you; being the center of your universe and vice versa is not why I'm here. So if you think that makes you seem decent or more mature I beg to differ. Now if you'll excuse me I need to start over and continuing to post here has only caused wasted time and even more stress than I needed. Thanks for your help, and sorry you expected an update on everything; I wasn't aware that you wanted me to report back sire.
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KamiM
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Re: Plugins cause latency
2015/10/30 23:37:56
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Danny Danzi
Did your mother also teach you manners? I've tried to help you a few times in this thread and you didn't even have the decency to answer my questions or even say thank you. You, your rants and your posts no longer exist to me.
Your help was nice but rolling back only made it worse im afraid. I don't recall not answering your questions, but if I overlooked it I apologize. But before anything... Do not contradict my manners just because I spoke against people who judge based off of inferiority. Bad enough I'm a girl here, and honestly I'm glad I don't exist to you; being the center of your universe and vice versa is not why I'm here. So if you think that makes you seem decent or more mature I beg to differ. Now if you'll excuse me I need to start over and continuing to post here has only caused wasted time and even more stress than I needed. Thanks for your help, and sorry you expected an update on everything; I wasn't aware that you wanted me to report back sire.
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pwalpwal
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Re: Plugins cause latency
2015/10/31 05:02:04
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batsbrew
using cracked software leads to upsettedness.
kamelodic
I think I got that. Now about an answer to my tracking questions?
... kamelodic insted of helpful advice...i have some pion...asking me if i am "a saudi prince"? Whatever happened to people just simply answering a question?
that was a reference to your ridiculous arrogance and sense of entitlement, i thought it quite funny :-)
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HELLYA
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Re: Plugins cause latency
2015/10/31 09:04:48
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Dropout & latency; For me what i've learned over the years (i'm not a pro) is adding plug-ins to a project equals adding water into a glass. Let me explain; You get to a point where your glass (pc, laptop) is almost fill (plug-ins/effects etc..) but you can't really see it. One day everything is fine and the next day you open a project and for some reasons the drop-outs and latency appears (glass is full) because in the background something (wi-fi, update, anti-malware, anti-virus and so on) is starting and taking out enough power from your machine so that it has an' effect on Sonar (dropout & latency). First try to disable everything that runs that are not useful while using Sonar especially if you are tracking. You may have to change Sonar settings depending if you are recording or in a playback mode...here a few links i have found. http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2303511&high=disable+taskhttp://forum.cakewalk.com/Crap-X3c-didnt-fix-the-pops-and-clicks-m2922353.aspxhttp://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan05/articles/pcmusician.htmhttp://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR%20X2&language=3&help=ControlBar.09.htmlhttp://www.modernbeats.com/hit-talk/freeze-bounce-sound-using-sonar-8/ i could go on and on with these things...You really have to learn/find what can use power and that is not useful (disable) while you are using Sonar. If you are using instruments plug-ins (drums, bass, strings etc...) look for the freeze options in Sonar it might help. I use plug-in for guitar effects and since i dropped all 32 bits plug-in, things are way better. I'm now never using more than 3 or 4 plg-in at the time. I do a track, render (export) it than insert it back. Everything inside that works ''in real time'' in your project is hard on the machine. That's why i render my tracks. They become wave and thtat is very easy for Sonar to manage. I may work my project on two seperate projects; i do the drums (midi), export it (render), start another project insert the wave i just exported and program the bass with another software with that drum (wave) as my first track. Briefly what i'm trying to tell you is that i learned that i had to be creative to find ''workaround'' because of my laptop lack of power Just remember that it takes a lot of patience to make music with a pc and a laptop. The more the machine has power, the more you can getaway with murder but still it's very possible you go beyond the limit of your machine. Hope it helped And by the way don't be to hard on the guys that are trying to help you. I haven't seen (yet) any other forum that has as much informations on a software (and more) as this one. Good luck
Laptop Intel i3-2330M 2.20ghz RAM;6.00 GO Windows 7 64 bit Sonar X1-X2-X3 Producer all 64 bit Toontrack Superior Drummer, DKFH, EZ Mix Spectrasonics Trillian IK multimedia Amplitube Metal Guitar rig 5 TH2 Overloud
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mudgel
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Re: Plugins cause latency
2015/11/05 09:40:49
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☄ Helpfulby tlw 2015/11/06 10:27:26
Resetting your system completely is not a solution to all the problems. Nor is Sonar the reason for your problems.
You expect a great deal, you need to put in a great deal.
If you want help then follow the advice you are given and don't go off in tangents that do not fit in with the instructions you e been given.
Danny Danzi is one of the most professional and helpful members on this forum. Your attitude has managed to get him upset. I've never seen that happen. your gender and nationality are not issues either. This forum is made of contributors from all around the world. Some speak impeccable English while others don't. The latter only adds a degree of difficulty but certainly no prejudice.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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57Gregy
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Re: Plugins cause latency
2015/11/06 10:23:22
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To answer one of your questions, 'tracking' is recording, laying down tracks.
You won't be able to use your computer speakers when using the Focusrite. You'll need to plug active (amplified) speakers to the Focusrite's audio outputs, or connect those outputs to an amp or receiver that has speakers connected. Or monitor from the 2i2 with headphones.
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