BobF
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Poof!
This is the very reason I went to Reaper a couple of years ago. Just when I start trusting Sonar and trying to do serious work with it - Poof! Closing now, bye-bye to your last takes and comping!
Guys - this is frustrating. I gave fault reporter permission to run. Does it go to the bakers automatically, or do I need to send something?
Bob -- Angels are crying because truth has died ...Illegitimi non carborundum --Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64 Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U
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Beagle
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when the problem reporter comes up, it issues a trouble ticket and gives you the number of that trouble ticket. you should be able to contact tech support regarding that ticket number and get information on where it is in the system.
trouble tickets do not automatically go to the ones who create/write/change the code. it goes to tech support to verify or get further info and does not get elevated to the actual bakers unless it is a verifiable problem.
often, I have found, that when this kind of thing happens it's usually an interaction between sonar and a plugin, or strictly caused by the plugin itself. what kind of things were you doing when this happened and what plugins were you using?
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BobF
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Thanks
I didn't get it a number ... just the opportunity to exit Sonar without saving ...
Bob -- Angels are crying because truth has died ...Illegitimi non carborundum --Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64 Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U
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Anderton
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Re: Poof!
2014/12/09 15:50:26
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby joel77 2014/12/10 18:40:50
Almost invariably, whatever you recorded is in your project audio folder. The file will usually incorporate the track name depending on when the freeze occurred, but you can always click through the project audio file in the media browser to find it.
Don't know if this applies in your case, but running 32-bit plug-ins in a 64-bit environment is risky. This is why DAWs like Studio One, Pro Tools, Cubase, etc. don't even let you run 32-bit plug-ins (most don't support DirectX, either). While I appreciate that SONAR makes an effort to provide backwards compatibility, using older plug-in formats and bridging technology to fool SONAR into thinking the plugs are compatible can definitely impact stability.
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BobF
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The only plugin in the project was a bypassed copy of the tempo delay that came with X3.
I was working with the comp tool when it poofed. I'll bet the $80 I wasted upgrading to X3 that the crash has to do with the comp tool.
So, did the fault reporter report anything, or no? How do I tell?
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Beagle
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if if did not ask you if you wanted to report the fault to cakewalk then the fault reporter did not report anything. the fault reporter will pop up a window and ask if you want to report the problem to cakewalk. if you say yes, then a report number is generated and sent to cake support and the number will be shown on your screen and you will get an email with the problem reporter incident number as well.
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Beagle
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sound card drivers are also a typical fault of sonar going "poof"
what soundcard are you using and which driver mode?
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BobF
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The reporter did ask and I told it yes.
Delta66 ASIO
Don't waste a lot of time. My hardware is rock solid with Reaper. I'll pick back up with that until I see some maint releases for Sonar. I'll just make sure not to trust it to quickly next time.
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Beagle
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ok, sorry it's happening to you, but I'm sure me and others would be glad to help you track it down if it continues to happen.
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Anderton
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rfreeze
The only plugin in the project was a bypassed copy of the tempo delay that came with X3.
I was working with the comp tool when it poofed. I'll bet the $80 I wasted upgrading to X3 that the crash has to do with the comp tool.
Was it the Cakewalk Tempo Delay or the Blue Tubes one? The Cakewalk one is an old DirectX plug-in. In fact it will throw a DirectShow error under some circumstance I don't recall right now, something like bouncing to clip in a mono track because it's a stereo effect. I'm not trying to minimize your frustration at having something go wrong. I understand what it's like to lose work. However, as mentioned I think the work probably isn't lost, and if you used the Cakewalk Tempo Delay, it's a DirectX plug-ins - which has been a "zombie format" ever since Microsoft lost interest several years ago, and only remains supported in a few hosts primarily for backwards compatibility. You'd be better off with the Blue Tubes if that's not the one you used. You are not the first person to have this kind of problem nor will you be the last, but many times relatively simple solutions are found through the experience of people on this forum.
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Splat 
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rfreeze
The reporter did ask and I told it yes.
Delta66 ASIO
Don't waste a lot of time. My hardware is rock solid with Reaper. I'll pick back up with that until I see some maint releases for Sonar. I'll just make sure not to trust it to quickly next time.
Might be rock solid with Reaper but could be causing Sonar to crash. It's different software maybe making different procedural calls and code to access the driver, or even windows library routines getting the way. I would definitely check you are on the latest driver version and firmware, and make sure you are on X3E, and run Windows update everywhere. Otherwise you are probably looking at plugins. Cheers...
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BobF
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Anderton
rfreeze
The only plugin in the project was a bypassed copy of the tempo delay that came with X3.
I was working with the comp tool when it poofed. I'll bet the $80 I wasted upgrading to X3 that the crash has to do with the comp tool.
Was it the Cakewalk Tempo Delay or the Blue Tubes one? The Cakewalk one is an old DirectX plug-in. In fact it will throw a DirectShow error under some circumstance I don't recall right now, something like bouncing to clip in a mono track because it's a stereo effect.
I'm not trying to minimize your frustration at having something go wrong. I understand what it's like to lose work. However, as mentioned I think the work probably isn't lost, and if you used the Cakewalk Tempo Delay, it's a DirectX plug-ins - which has been a "zombie format" ever since Microsoft lost interest several years ago, and only remains supported in a few hosts primarily for backwards compatibility. You'd be better off with the Blue Tubes if that's not the one you used.
You are not the first person to have this kind of problem nor will you be the last, but many times relatively simple solutions are found through the experience of people on this forum.
Bob -- Angels are crying because truth has died ...Illegitimi non carborundum --Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64 Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U
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BobF
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CakeAlexS
rfreeze
The reporter did ask and I told it yes.
Delta66 ASIO
Don't waste a lot of time. My hardware is rock solid with Reaper. I'll pick back up with that until I see some maint releases for Sonar. I'll just make sure not to trust it to quickly next time.
Might be rock solid with Reaper but could be causing Sonar to crash. It's different software maybe making different procedural calls and code to access the driver, or even windows library routines getting the way. I would definitely check you are on the latest driver version and firmware, and make sure you are on X3E, and run Windows update everywhere.
Otherwise you are probably looking at plugins.
Cheers...
The BT Tempo Delay was bypassed in an empty track that was not involved in the comping that was going on at the time. It is the only plugin in the project. X3e, Win 8.1 fully updated. I appreciate that a card can cause problems with one piece of software but work fine with another. My hardware is my hardware ... Delta66s have been around forever and have worked fine forever - with performance that is difficult to match with modern interfaces - at 'reasonable' cost. BTW, my last takes are nowhere to be found. That's not a big problem though - I enjoy playing my guitars. :) The real problem is time lost working thru the takes with the comp tool. Now, if I was paying for talent, it would be a different story.
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Anderton
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Useful information, the plug-in wouldn't cause the problem if it was not inserted in the track and not the DirectX Tempo Delay.
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...wicked
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Argh, I still occasionally get crashes like that. I just had SONAR hang on me on saving, luckily I had a fairly recent copy I was able to reconstruct from. It's very frustrating.
One thing I like to do is try and move forward in small, like steps. So, when I'm using Melodyne a lot, I'll make sure to bounce all the clips down and then save. If I'm doing Audiosnap work, I'll bounce them all too and then save. Of course one doesn't always remember that in the heat of the moment when you've got momentum going.
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BobF
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wicked ... that's pretty much where I am. I have a lot of years with Cakewalk stuff, so I generally save often :) To be fair, I have to say that's actually good practice no matter what software you use. Like you say though, you get something going, you get excited and start thinking about music instead of gear ... that's when it happens.
I'm even beginning to think that unsaved data may somehow be at the core of these crashes ;)
Is there a way to trigger actions? For example, have recording arm a trigger to initiate a save automatically when the transport is stopped. Timer- and event count-based save triggers are just glitches waiting to happen. But having a sequence of events trigger a save would be pretty cool.
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Anderton
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rfreeze
I'm even beginning to think that unsaved data may somehow be at the core of these crashes ;) Actually I think you might have a point. In the words of Herman Cain "I don't have facts to back this up," but it seems that when I save, some kind of order is restored in the force and I can go on for a long time without problems. Then I think "Hmmm, I've gone on for a long time without problems, better save" and then I go for several more hours. But I do push SONAR pretty hard, so maybe I'm just lucky. Is there a way to trigger actions? For example, have recording arm a trigger to initiate a save automatically when the transport is stopped. Timer- and event count-based save triggers are just glitches waiting to happen. But having a sequence of events trigger a save would be pretty cool. Not quite, but auto-save saves automatically based on either elapsed time or number of edits. A few people refuse to auto-save because they don't want to "overwrite" something without their knowing it but that's incorrect, Auto-save creates a separate file and doesn't overwrite anything. So typically, I'll "save as" with a suffix after major changes (e.g., mysong01, mysong02, etc.) with auto-saved files handling things in-between. Although I do this as "crash insurance," it seems like 95% of the time the way it ends up being used is when I decide that an earlier take I did was better.
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...wicked
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Pretty unrelated, but I love that Bluetubes delay. Using it on mixes currently for vox. Instant Elvis! :-)
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scook
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rfreeze
have recording arm a trigger to initiate a save automatically when the transport is stopped.
It is possible to script a stop+save hotkey using AutoHotkey, here is an example bound to Windows+s #s:: Send,{Space}^s
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BobF
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That's a really good idea scook. Not as cool as integrated event-based scripting, but I already have AHK bookmarked from reading your post(s) in other threads.
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kitekrazy1
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Anderton
Almost invariably, whatever you recorded is in your project audio folder. The file will usually incorporate the track name depending on when the freeze occurred, but you can always click through the project audio file in the media browser to find it.
Don't know if this applies in your case, but running 32-bit plug-ins in a 64-bit environment is risky. This is why DAWs like Studio One, Pro Tools, Cubase, etc. don't even let you run 32-bit plug-ins (most don't support DirectX, either). While I appreciate that SONAR makes an effort to provide backwards compatibility, using older plug-in formats and bridging technology to fool SONAR into thinking the plugs are compatible can definitely impact stability.
I heard from developers that running 32 bit plugs in a 64 bit app uses more resources. I wonder when Sonar is going to drop DX support. Image Line will drop it in FL12. Sonar may be the last one left.
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Anderton
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All Sony software (Vegas, Sound Forge, Acid), Acoustica Mixcraft, and Magix Samplitude still support DirectX. I think Reaper does too.
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noynekker
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rfreeze
CakeAlexS
rfreeze
The reporter did ask and I told it yes.
Delta66 ASIO
Don't waste a lot of time. My hardware is rock solid with Reaper. I'll pick back up with that until I see some maint releases for Sonar. I'll just make sure not to trust it to quickly next time.
Might be rock solid with Reaper but could be causing Sonar to crash. It's different software maybe making different procedural calls and code to access the driver, or even windows library routines getting the way. I would definitely check you are on the latest driver version and firmware, and make sure you are on X3E, and run Windows update everywhere.
Otherwise you are probably looking at plugins.
Cheers...
The BT Tempo Delay was bypassed in an empty track that was not involved in the comping that was going on at the time. It is the only plugin in the project.
X3e, Win 8.1 fully updated.
I appreciate that a card can cause problems with one piece of software but work fine with another. My hardware is my hardware ... Delta66s have been around forever and have worked fine forever - with performance that is difficult to match with modern interfaces - at 'reasonable' cost.
BTW, my last takes are nowhere to be found. That's not a big problem though - I enjoy playing my guitars. :) The real problem is time lost working thru the takes with the comp tool. Now, if I was paying for talent, it would be a different story.
I will agree that the Delta 66 is a rock solid audio card, I've been using a long time now, and have very few crashes that weren't caused by my own operator error. Comping has worked very well for me on X3e with the Delta 66 card on Win 7 sp1 . . . but I'm wondering how you have it working on Win 8.1 ? One reason I haven't moved on to Win 8.1 is that the M-Audio site shows there are no drivers available for that OS.
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BobF
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I've been using the latest drivers with Win8/8.1 for about a year and a half. Win7SP1x64
I didn't bother loading Sonar when I got this one. I was previously still on XP running Reaper and continued to do so on this machine.
I should point out that trying out Sonar again has nothing to do with *stability* problems with Reaper. I much prefer the UI and overall layout of Sonar. I figured 'why not?', thinking I could always use fresh plugs if Sonar didn't work out. Of course I found out yesterday how much is tied to Sonar - a practice I think stinks of insecurity.
At this point I'm really hoping we see point releases addressing stability before another new version. I've always hated having to pay in advance in the hope that some of the bugs might be squashed in the new release.
Bob -- Angels are crying because truth has died ...Illegitimi non carborundum --Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64 Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U
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kakku
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I have automatic saving on every 7 minutes in case something happens.
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Kev999
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Anderton
Almost invariably, whatever you recorded is in your project audio folder...
True. I recently lost a set of takes. They just vanished while I was editing some other track elsewhere in the project. Anyway, I discovered that the recorded audio still existed within several files in the Audio folder. It was all rescueable, albeit with a lot of messing about.
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Atsuko
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rfreeze
I've been using the latest drivers with Win8/8.1 for about a year and a half. Win7SP1x64
I didn't bother loading Sonar when I got this one. I was previously still on XP running Reaper and continued to do so on this machine.
I should point out that trying out Sonar again has nothing to do with *stability* problems with Reaper. I much prefer the UI and overall layout of Sonar. I figured 'why not?', thinking I could always use fresh plugs if Sonar didn't work out. Of course I found out yesterday how much is tied to Sonar - a practice I think stinks of insecurity.
At this point I'm really hoping we see point releases addressing stability before another new version. I've always hated having to pay in advance in the hope that some of the bugs might be squashed in the new release.
Strange... M-Audio states that there are no drivers or firmware updates available for windows 8 and 8.1 for Delta 66.
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BobF
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As stated (maybe not clearly) I'm using the Win7SP1x64 drivers ...
At the time I built this machine there was a blurb somewhere on the Avid site that said if they didn't have drivers for your specific Win version, the drivers for a previous version might work.
And so they have. No audio app has ever crashed on this machine until Sonar X3. As Alex pointed out, there could be something different in the way the drivers are accessed by Sonar vs other apps that causes it to not be compatible. I don't know. All I do know is that Sonar went poof while working with 2 take lane with the comp tool.
None of the bakers has answered my question about the fault reporter. Perhaps there is some info captured somewhere that can point to the actual problem.
I'm open to using Reaper for tracking/dubbing and using Sonar for mixing for a while to see if more info can be gathered. It's really easy to configure Sonar to use a different, albeit slower USB interface, which shouldn't matter at that point.
The way this 'discussion' has gone so far though, I'm su****ious that *that* driver will come under su****ion before Sonar actually gets looked at.
Yes, I realize repeatability is key to trouble resolution. :)
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hockeyjx
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How old is the Delta 66? Like 10 years+?
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stoutlyric
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