neirbod
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Pops and crackles with a twist
I know all too well about pops a crackles during playback, and how to tweak latency etc. to avoid this issue. But I have a new twist I never experienced. Since I installed X3d I have some pops and crackles in some larger projects that occur not only when I playback, but also when I export audio and make any changes to my preferences (even non-audio ones like key bindings). This is new and not something I experienced with X3c. Any idea why these non-playback actions would result in pops and crackles? I did also recently get a new monitor with higher resolution, so I suppose this could be related. I am running an RME UFX with ASIO drivers, with settings that I have found to result in a very stable system - latency around 11 ms, 520 meg read cache. I rescanned all my plugins after installing X3d. Thanks
----------------- Windows 7 64Sonar PlatinumIntel i7 3.4 GHzGigabyte GA-H67A-UD3H-B3 moboRME UFX and UCX
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Anderton
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Re: Pops and crackles with a twist
December 19, 13 3:46 PM
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Try increasing the Playback I/O Buffer Size under Preferences > Sync and Caching > File System. I haven't encountered the problem you described, but it fixed some unusual pop/crackle problems I'd experienced.
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gswitz
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Re: Pops and crackles with a twist
December 19, 13 9:50 PM
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Neirbod, I don't have the exact same scenario, but I use an RME too with the latest driver driver_usb_win_1038 using USB. When I bounce to tracks, I'm getting a CRACK when it finishes. ?? no idea. I haven't tried bypassing FX b/c, well I want FX on when I bounce! haha Ok tried it. I didn't get the CRACK with FX bypassed and using bounce to track. BTW, the CRACK is only audible, it doesn't write to the bounced track and it's the only audible thing during the bounce and it comes right at the end. FX in use are PC EQs, Console Emulator (S-Type), MAutoAlign, BlueVerb, Concrete Limiter, PC4K-SType Bus compressor. That's it. Nothing else. 7 tracks recorded at 88.2. No midi.
post edited by gswitz - December 19, 13 10:10 PM
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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neirbod
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Re: Pops and crackles with a twist
December 20, 13 10:08 AM
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More info. I did some troubleshooting and in my case there is some problem with the combination of X3, and a UFX over firewire. I am using the latest drivers and firmware. I tried two different FW cables with the same crackles and pops, plus another symptom I did not notice initially - a delay of 1-2 seconds when clicking the record arm button. With USB everything work great. I then tried testing with Sonar 8.5. No problems there at all using FW or USB. I have been using USB for years and only tried FW in the past few days so I can try using a Unibrain 10m cable. So, I can't say of this issue is new to X3d. It could have started with X1 as far as I know. Strange that Gswitz seems to have similar symptoms using USB. Anyone else using a UFX (or other RME unit) with FW and X3d? I am curious if this is a common problem.
----------------- Windows 7 64Sonar PlatinumIntel i7 3.4 GHzGigabyte GA-H67A-UD3H-B3 moboRME UFX and UCX
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Guitarmech111
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Re: Pops and crackles with a twist
December 20, 13 10:26 AM
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getting crackles and clicks on X3D too. No issue with X3C. I am wondering if there are initialization file changes that differ between X3C and X3D. I think that may be part of the issue. It seems that X3D repersonalized my settings. I don't remember if X3C did that or not.
Peace, Conley Shepherd Joyful Noise Productions PC config: (Win performance base score = 7.7) ASUS Sabertooth 990 FX -amd fx-8150 - core processor am3+ - 32G Corsair 1066 DDR3 - PNY GTX670 2g gddr5 - Corsair Force SSD 120G - Samsung 750G SATA drives - WD 1tb Black (Audio files) - WD 2TB for storage - RME UFX - USB ASIO 2/2016 drivers Win8 Without a mess, there is no message
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Splat
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Re: Pops and crackles with a twist
December 20, 13 10:31 AM
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Rename AUD.INI and see what happens I suggest (you can always put it back). Thanks..
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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neirbod
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Re: Pops and crackles with a twist
December 20, 13 10:42 AM
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CakeAlexS Rename AUD.INI and see what happens I suggest (you can always put it back). Thanks..
Good idea. I will try that when I get back to the studio tonight.
----------------- Windows 7 64Sonar PlatinumIntel i7 3.4 GHzGigabyte GA-H67A-UD3H-B3 moboRME UFX and UCX
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Guitarmech111
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Re: Pops and crackles with a twist
December 20, 13 10:55 AM
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I deleted it and it got replaced with a default AUD.INI dated 10/7/2013 Still getting pops and clicks. I guess they don't test patches during the holidays... ;)
Peace, Conley Shepherd Joyful Noise Productions PC config: (Win performance base score = 7.7) ASUS Sabertooth 990 FX -amd fx-8150 - core processor am3+ - 32G Corsair 1066 DDR3 - PNY GTX670 2g gddr5 - Corsair Force SSD 120G - Samsung 750G SATA drives - WD 1tb Black (Audio files) - WD 2TB for storage - RME UFX - USB ASIO 2/2016 drivers Win8 Without a mess, there is no message
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CJaysMusic
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Re: Pops and crackles with a twist
December 20, 13 12:30 AM
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neirbod More info. I did some troubleshooting and in my case there is some problem with the combination of X3, and a UFX over firewire. I am using the latest drivers and firmware. I tried two different FW cables with the same crackles and pops, plus another symptom I did not notice initially - a delay of 1-2 seconds when clicking the record arm button. With USB everything work great. I then tried testing with Sonar 8.5. No problems there at all using FW or USB. I have been using USB for years and only tried FW in the past few days so I can try using a Unibrain 10m cable. So, I can't say of this issue is new to X3d. It could have started with X1 as far as I know. Strange that Gswitz seems to have similar symptoms using USB. Anyone else using a UFX (or other RME unit) with FW and X3d? I am curious if this is a common problem.
Get a TI Firewire chipset card. allot of fire wire (FW) cards that come stock inside PC's are crap and will cause artifacts. This is why you do not hear it using a USB hub. Gwitz problem is something else, not due to a firewire card, like an IRQ conflict. CJ
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neirbod
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Re: Pops and crackles with a twist
December 20, 13 2:38 PM
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CJaysMusic Get a TI Firewire chipset card. allot of fire wire (FW) cards that come stock inside PC's are crap and will cause artifacts. This is why you do not hear it using a USB hub. Gwitz problem is something else, not due to a firewire card, like an IRQ conflict. CJ
As FW works perfectly with my system on Sonar 8.5, I don't think this is a hardware issue.
----------------- Windows 7 64Sonar PlatinumIntel i7 3.4 GHzGigabyte GA-H67A-UD3H-B3 moboRME UFX and UCX
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Splat
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Re: Pops and crackles with a twist
December 20, 13 2:46 PM
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I have to say I've experiencing a big jump in latency in my Saffire Pro 40 firewire interface since the patches. This shouldn't be regarded as a smoking gun however, the issue could be at my end. The only issue I have is crackling the first time I play a project for mixing or whatever. Second time the cracking etc is gone. ASIO buffer size is turned right up. I haven't tried this yet, but I was thinking of temporarily disabling Melodyne.
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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CJaysMusic
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Re: Pops and crackles with a twist
December 20, 13 2:53 PM
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As FW works perfectly with my system on Sonar 8.5, I don't think this is a hardware issue. I would check for Clipping on your master bus and Main outs. If your hearing it on your exported projects, then its most likely clipping. Make sure your buses go to your master bus & tracks go to your master bus and the master bus goes to your main outs. Check your buses for clipping.. CJ
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neirbod
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Re: Pops and crackles with a twist
December 20, 13 3:09 PM
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It is not clipping. I am not hearing it in the rendered wave file. The pops and clicks happen as the audio is being mixed down, or during the other times I mentioned already. CakeAlexs - Your experience is interesting. No smoking gun perhaps, but it does suggest that the patch resulted in reduced performance on at least some systems.
----------------- Windows 7 64Sonar PlatinumIntel i7 3.4 GHzGigabyte GA-H67A-UD3H-B3 moboRME UFX and UCX
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Splat
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Re: Pops and crackles with a twist
December 20, 13 3:19 PM
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> but it does suggest that the patch resulted in reduced performance on at least some systems.
I am still of the view that it is just my system right now until proven otherwise. I'm not jumping to conclusions just yet. Thanks..
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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Anderton
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Re: Pops and crackles with a twist
December 20, 13 7:25 PM
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I had a crackling problem that drove me crazy with a FireWire interface. The solution was creating a power plan where the processor minimum and maximum state percentages were the same. Every time there was a state switch, there was a pop. Might be worth checking.
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Splat
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Re: Pops and crackles with a twist
December 20, 13 7:59 PM
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Once I've played the project through once, the second time I get no issues (like it's been cached). Do some people get similar behaviour or is this just me? Thanks
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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neirbod
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Re: Pops and crackles with a twist
December 21, 13 8:47 AM
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Guitarmech111 I deleted it and it got replaced with a default AUD.INI dated 10/7/2013 Still getting pops and clicks. I guess they don't test patches during the holidays... ;)
I tried this too. Still getting pops and clicks.
----------------- Windows 7 64Sonar PlatinumIntel i7 3.4 GHzGigabyte GA-H67A-UD3H-B3 moboRME UFX and UCX
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Guitarmech111
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Re: Pops and crackles with a twist
December 21, 13 9:02 AM
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X3D is causing me to get pops and clicks where there were none in X3C. What I did notice is that all 8 of my CPU cores are working more based on the meter activity I see. Before, I only seen the first couple core meters moving and now all 8 of them are about twice as active.
Peace, Conley Shepherd Joyful Noise Productions PC config: (Win performance base score = 7.7) ASUS Sabertooth 990 FX -amd fx-8150 - core processor am3+ - 32G Corsair 1066 DDR3 - PNY GTX670 2g gddr5 - Corsair Force SSD 120G - Samsung 750G SATA drives - WD 1tb Black (Audio files) - WD 2TB for storage - RME UFX - USB ASIO 2/2016 drivers Win8 Without a mess, there is no message
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Splat
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Re: Pops and crackles with a twist
December 21, 13 1:22 PM
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☄ Helpfulby Pragi February 04, 14 6:16 AM
My issues are resolved! (Famous last words) I have absolutely no idea why (could still be my PC) but I'm wondering if values are not persisting in Sonars database, or some sort of value corruption. This is totally pie in the sky, not much logic to it, but try this...
Open Sonar, Open a project Go to Preferences -> Sync and Caching Take note of play and record buffer size. Double them (or something) Click OK Go to Preferences -> Driver Settings. Click ASIO Panel. Click OK to close preferences. Play your project a little. Close Sonar. Open Sonar, Open a project. Go to Preferences -> Sync and Caching Put ye olde values back into play and record buffer size. Click OK. Play project. Close Sonar. Stand on one leg. Now is there a now difference of have I sent you on a wild goose chase? (I suspect people have different scenarios here, however it may help somebody, or maybe it's just my imaginary friend).
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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Anderton
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Re: Pops and crackles with a twist
December 21, 13 1:26 PM
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Alex - as mentioned in a previous post, I experienced crackles until I changed the sync and cache settings. It may be a situation where they need to be "refreshed." Haven't had any issues since.
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Splat
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Re: Pops and crackles with a twist
December 21, 13 1:26 PM
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> It may be a situation where they need to be "refreshed." Exactly...
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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Guitarmech111
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Re: Pops and crackles with a twist
December 21, 13 2:07 PM
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I tried that just now and reset the values 4 times to make sure and closed SONAR each time. Still getting pops and clicks during playback after X3D. I may just need to revert to X3C...
Peace, Conley Shepherd Joyful Noise Productions PC config: (Win performance base score = 7.7) ASUS Sabertooth 990 FX -amd fx-8150 - core processor am3+ - 32G Corsair 1066 DDR3 - PNY GTX670 2g gddr5 - Corsair Force SSD 120G - Samsung 750G SATA drives - WD 1tb Black (Audio files) - WD 2TB for storage - RME UFX - USB ASIO 2/2016 drivers Win8 Without a mess, there is no message
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Splat
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Re: Pops and crackles with a twist
December 21, 13 2:14 PM
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Follow my steps to the letter I suggest.... The standing on one leg bit is especially important ;).
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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Guitarmech111
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Re: Pops and crackles with a twist
December 21, 13 2:21 PM
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lol, THAT is what I forgot!!! seriously though, I knew you were going to say that and I couldn't figure out why, but I did follow your instruction to a 'T' minus the leg standing. My thoughts on your post was wondering why SONAR would not be able to query it's own initialization file to get the desired buffer settings without having to force a change in the INI files. I even changed and kept the buffers from 256k to 512k for a little bit and still had issues. My UFX is a top performing audio interface and my PC is top performing with it's specs. I expect better performance than what the X3D patch is giving me. I have been playing back flawlessly before X3D and I think it is time to go back and let the bakers come up with a better patch.
Peace, Conley Shepherd Joyful Noise Productions PC config: (Win performance base score = 7.7) ASUS Sabertooth 990 FX -amd fx-8150 - core processor am3+ - 32G Corsair 1066 DDR3 - PNY GTX670 2g gddr5 - Corsair Force SSD 120G - Samsung 750G SATA drives - WD 1tb Black (Audio files) - WD 2TB for storage - RME UFX - USB ASIO 2/2016 drivers Win8 Without a mess, there is no message
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Splat
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Re: Pops and crackles with a twist
December 21, 13 2:45 PM
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Well what I'm writing here is hearsay, wish I could prove it. Maybe it's in my tiny little mind...
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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Anderton
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Re: Pops and crackles with a twist
December 21, 13 2:58 PM
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Guitarmech111 My thoughts on your post was wondering why SONAR would not be able to query it's own initialization file to get the desired buffer settings without having to force a change in the INI files.
It doesn't know what computer you're using, which interface, processor speed, how many plug-ins you typically use, etc. I don't know why you keep having performance problems I can't replicate. I can't help but think it's some little software switch somewhere that's not set correctly.
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dan le
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Re: Pops and crackles with a twist
December 21, 13 3:23 PM
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Hi everybody, over here I am lucky that I can still use WMD. Once in a while, I just do a rescan via Wave Profiler, and all crackles and pops will be gone. Also with WMD, I can change latency so quickly, like between 2.7ms when playing softsynth, and 12 ms during mixing. But some day, when I changed interface, I won't be able to do that with Asio. since the newer interfaces usually work with ASIO only. best.
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Guitarmech111
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Re: Pops and crackles with a twist
December 21, 13 3:51 PM
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Craig, I am not the only one that seems to be having performance issues. If it is a switch and someone can suggest it to me for better performance, I am all for trying it. I live on the bleeding edge... With that said, the audio profiler should know what settings to use based on the card profiling and driver settings I thought. It looks like there is some type of importing settings from prior installs too. Why all of a sudden would anyone have to reset and reestablish what was working? I don't have a clue. A user should not have to reset a setting to something different and set it back to get better performance with the what they had in the first place. I will keep trying switches if someone has suggestions. uninstall/reinstall of a product is not very long. I got used to it as a beta tester.
Peace, Conley Shepherd Joyful Noise Productions PC config: (Win performance base score = 7.7) ASUS Sabertooth 990 FX -amd fx-8150 - core processor am3+ - 32G Corsair 1066 DDR3 - PNY GTX670 2g gddr5 - Corsair Force SSD 120G - Samsung 750G SATA drives - WD 1tb Black (Audio files) - WD 2TB for storage - RME UFX - USB ASIO 2/2016 drivers Win8 Without a mess, there is no message
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Anderton
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Re: Pops and crackles with a twist
December 21, 13 6:25 PM
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Guitarmech111 Craig, I am not the only one that seems to be having performance issues.
Agreed, but most are different, and not being experienced by the majority of users. This makes it harder to quantify and track down. For example, I had performance issues with X2, but it was the processor changing state with Firewire (not USB) interfaces. Anyone who didn't use Firewire or had the processor states set to the same amount would not have encountered this problem and would not have been able to help me find a solution. With X3d, I had performance issues but they were fixed simply by altering one of the cache settings. If there was a truly systemic problem with the software, everyone would experience it. That would be a drag, but that would also make it really easy to narrow down the source of the problem. When only a handful of people experience a particular problem, and different handfuls experience different problems, it's much harder.
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Anderton
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Re: Pops and crackles with a twist
December 21, 13 6:41 PM
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One more thing...if you visit any forums for interfaces, you would be convinced that no interface from any company works! I just checked the RME forums...freezes, problems with Mountain Lion and iPad Air, constant crash issues until restart, no signal in Totalmix after firmware update...the list goes on and on and on and on. I'm not bashing on RME. Go to any internet forum involving digital audio and you will find you are not by any means unique. The only things that change are the software, the interfaces, and the computers... Welcome to making music with computers in 2013! Oh, and to close on a happy note: It's not going to get any better because code and technology will continue to become more complex.
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