Guitarmech111
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Re: Pops and crackles with a twist
March 04, 14 3:42 PM
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Looks like RME and Cakewalk were talking about the delayed recording arm issue and not a performance issue. Cakewalk is making a fix for that delayed arm issue from what I understand. Now how are we going to get the performance issue with RME devices handled?
Peace, Conley Shepherd Joyful Noise Productions PC config: (Win performance base score = 7.7) ASUS Sabertooth 990 FX -amd fx-8150 - core processor am3+ - 32G Corsair 1066 DDR3 - PNY GTX670 2g gddr5 - Corsair Force SSD 120G - Samsung 750G SATA drives - WD 1tb Black (Audio files) - WD 2TB for storage - RME UFX - USB ASIO 2/2016 drivers Win8 Without a mess, there is no message
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Splat
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Re: Pops and crackles with a twist
March 04, 14 6:54 PM
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"Cakewalk is making a fix for that delayed arm issue from what I understand." Source or did you just make this up? As I said this is a absolute classic drivers issue, and it's not the first time bugged drivers have done this and it probably will not be the last. OK want evidence? Do you notice any similarities here which turned out to be buggy drivers? Notice I wasn't initially convinced either... Not until post #68 (well in fact later than that even). So if I took this long to convince I suppose you will never be convinced ;) http://forum.cakewalk.com/SOLVED-FOCUSRITE-BUG-Record-arm-buttons-are-slow-to-respond-m2391347.aspx That is my compelling evidence from just over a couple of years ago, the comparison here is uncanny, please supply yours...! :) Ask yourself why my drivers work and yours don't ;)... and once upon a time your drivers may have worked and mine didn't.... and the symptoms here are almost identical. DISCLAIMER - I still maintain an open mind as no official statement has been made from either party (we are just going on hearsay), all I can do is present what I perceive to be a smoking gun drivers issue.. Until Cake or RME officially confirms this anything anybody says (inc me) should be taken with a pinch of salt.
post edited by CakeAlexS - March 04, 14 7:21 PM
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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Guitarmech111
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Re: Pops and crackles with a twist
March 04, 14 9:33 PM
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I got that info directly from RME on their forum. Why would I make anything up? I do not need to hype myself or lie to impress anyone here. I resent that you even suggested that Alex.
Peace, Conley Shepherd Joyful Noise Productions PC config: (Win performance base score = 7.7) ASUS Sabertooth 990 FX -amd fx-8150 - core processor am3+ - 32G Corsair 1066 DDR3 - PNY GTX670 2g gddr5 - Corsair Force SSD 120G - Samsung 750G SATA drives - WD 1tb Black (Audio files) - WD 2TB for storage - RME UFX - USB ASIO 2/2016 drivers Win8 Without a mess, there is no message
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Guitarmech111
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Re: Pops and crackles with a twist
March 04, 14 11:20 PM
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CakeAlexS "Cakewalk is making a fix for that delayed arm issue from what I understand." Source or did you just make this up? As I said this is a absolute classic drivers issue, and it's not the first time bugged drivers have done this and it probably will not be the last. OK want evidence? Do you notice any similarities here which turned out to be buggy drivers? Notice I wasn't initially convinced either... Not until post #68 (well in fact later than that even). So if I took this long to convince I suppose you will never be convinced ;) http://forum.cakewalk.com/SOLVED-FOCUSRITE-BUG-Record-arm-buttons-are-slow-to-respond-m2391347.aspx That is my compelling evidence from just over a couple of years ago, the comparison here is uncanny, please supply yours...! :) Ask yourself why my drivers work and yours don't ;)... and once upon a time your drivers may have worked and mine didn't.... and the symptoms here are almost identical. DISCLAIMER - I still maintain an open mind as no official statement has been made from either party (we are just going on hearsay), all I can do is present what I perceive to be a smoking gun drivers issue.. Until Cake or RME officially confirms this anything anybody says (inc me) should be taken with a pinch of salt.
look at the RME forum and you will see.
Peace, Conley Shepherd Joyful Noise Productions PC config: (Win performance base score = 7.7) ASUS Sabertooth 990 FX -amd fx-8150 - core processor am3+ - 32G Corsair 1066 DDR3 - PNY GTX670 2g gddr5 - Corsair Force SSD 120G - Samsung 750G SATA drives - WD 1tb Black (Audio files) - WD 2TB for storage - RME UFX - USB ASIO 2/2016 drivers Win8 Without a mess, there is no message
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Splat
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Re: Pops and crackles with a twist
March 05, 14 1:03 AM
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Like I say I reserve the right to be wrong. I apologise for being abrupt. Do you have a specific link and ideally post number please? I am not familiar with RME forums and I do not want to get quotes muddled. Or just paste the quote here with reference. If there is indeed a bug I would hope Cake to comment about it at this point so me and others stop speculating (in short shut me up!). If indeed it is true that would be a bit of a bombshell as other drivers may be effected. I can't see for the life of me why other drivers work differently unless they all coded workarounds around the problem. In short "we have a right to know" as Tom Waits would say :) Is this baloney or well founded? The truth may very well be something none of us are foreseeing. Thanks.
post edited by CakeAlexS - March 05, 14 1:23 AM
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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Guitarmech111
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Re: Pops and crackles with a twist
March 05, 14 8:09 AM
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Peace, Conley Shepherd Joyful Noise Productions PC config: (Win performance base score = 7.7) ASUS Sabertooth 990 FX -amd fx-8150 - core processor am3+ - 32G Corsair 1066 DDR3 - PNY GTX670 2g gddr5 - Corsair Force SSD 120G - Samsung 750G SATA drives - WD 1tb Black (Audio files) - WD 2TB for storage - RME UFX - USB ASIO 2/2016 drivers Win8 Without a mess, there is no message
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neirbod
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Re: Pops and crackles with a twist
March 05, 14 8:16 AM
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☄ Helpfulby Guitarmech111 March 05, 14 8:39 AM
Guitarmech111 I got that info directly from RME on their forum. Why would I make anything up? I do not need to hype myself or lie to impress anyone here. I resent that you even suggested that Alex.
I agree. Alex I appreciate your efforts on this forum to troubleshoot and document issues, but your self-appointed role as "forum police" goes too far at times. Feel free to not engage in this discussion if you find the information too unconfirmed for your high standards. RME just confirmed this on their public forum yesterday. See post 13 at the linked thread below. Prior to this it was confirmed to me in a private email. I chose not to copy and paste the exact quote here in a public forum because it was *private* and I felt this would cross a line and be rude. We should encourage other users to do research and share info, not accuse them of making things up. http://www.rme-audio.de/f../viewtopic.php?id=19003Enough about that. I am curious if others have tried what works for me - changing from ASIO to Wdm drivers, selecting the new Wdm- based outputs (this option will pop up automatically), then switching back to ASIO and selecting ASIO-based outputs. I have no idea why this works, but it does 100% of the time.
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neirbod
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Re: Pops and crackles with a twist
March 05, 14 8:20 AM
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I should also note that the driver switching workaround mentioned above cures both the slow arming and the glitchy audio on my system. So despite RME's statement that the fix CW developed (and hopefully present in x3e) is only for slow arming and should not affect any performance issues, I hold out hope that the fix will address both.
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Guitarmech111
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Re: Pops and crackles with a twist
March 05, 14 9:32 AM
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neirbod I am curious if others have tried what works for me - changing from ASIO to Wdm drivers, selecting the new Wdm- based outputs (this option will pop up automatically), then switching back to ASIO and selecting ASIO-based outputs. I have no idea why this works, but it does 100% of the time.
It would be nice to get a bakers thoughts on this procedure. I have not done that. It was mentioned a while back, in another issue, that a particular setting needed to be changed and then immediately changed back so that SONAR would enable that parm as the user specified and not what was migrated or default. curious...
Peace, Conley Shepherd Joyful Noise Productions PC config: (Win performance base score = 7.7) ASUS Sabertooth 990 FX -amd fx-8150 - core processor am3+ - 32G Corsair 1066 DDR3 - PNY GTX670 2g gddr5 - Corsair Force SSD 120G - Samsung 750G SATA drives - WD 1tb Black (Audio files) - WD 2TB for storage - RME UFX - USB ASIO 2/2016 drivers Win8 Without a mess, there is no message
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Splat
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Re: Pops and crackles with a twist
March 05, 14 11:09 AM
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Sorry Neighbod but I'm not telling people how to post and I have a right to an opinion as do you but you seem to be telling me what to do. BTW I should have been quoted as well if you were going to quote a response, I said "Source or did you just make this up?". I did not say "You are making things up", and it turns out in the end there (eventually) was a source. You are all trying to make it appear worse than it actually was by turning my question into some sort of statement. I also apologised for being abrupt (which I was). > Thank you Matthias, I was confirming because we have SONAR fanboys that have trouble admitting SONAR has flaws. Calling me a fanboy is another forum Conley is sort of weird to be honest (Really???? I have trouble admitting Sonar has flaws? There's plenty of things you can say about me but that doesn't hold any ground whatsoever). What I do have is trouble seeing an issue without the full evidence to back it up, I have a rather scientific approach here which may seem a little over the top to you but sometimes you do need it in a thread that seems to make a lot of assumptions to maintain balance. I'm sorry my immediate apology wasn't good enough for you and I shall apologise again.... I apologise. Now... > Please correct me if I am wrong. The fix, coded by cakewalk, was to address the long time it took for tracks to actually arm and has not much to do with the performance issue SONAR users are having with SONAR X3 and the RME interfaces. This seems to imply that other users who are not using RME interfaces are having delay issues when arming and RME seems to be nodding along to this statement. But I haven't seen any recent evidence of this, is there any sources to show this as an issue away from RME interfaces? Again DISCLAIMER (as I've said all along), these are of course just my opinions, not Cake's or RME's. I will be happy to be proven wrong if indeed that is the case, I do not see this as a point scoring exercise about who is right or wrong, chances are I will fall flat on my face, I just want to get down to the facts here. Could Cakewalk please confirm that there will be a bugfix? Like said if this is indeed true an issue with ASIO/transport is an extremely serious issue I would have thought (although most of us don't see the symptoms it seems). At least we all agree we want to hear from Cake. Thanks...
post edited by CakeAlexS - March 05, 14 11:49 AM
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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Guitarmech111
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Re: Pops and crackles with a twist
March 05, 14 12:47 AM
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It's all good Alex. I know you are passionate about threads you are monitoring. It does come off like a fanboy, but I did not specifically call you out on purpose. IMO, you do come off like one at times however. I used to be one for SONAR. I am probably the opposite now.
It is a good thing I edited my post over there before you read it earlier. ;) I accept your apology, please also accept mine. Let us both be more considerate and spread the peace, not BS.
Peace, Conley Shepherd Joyful Noise Productions PC config: (Win performance base score = 7.7) ASUS Sabertooth 990 FX -amd fx-8150 - core processor am3+ - 32G Corsair 1066 DDR3 - PNY GTX670 2g gddr5 - Corsair Force SSD 120G - Samsung 750G SATA drives - WD 1tb Black (Audio files) - WD 2TB for storage - RME UFX - USB ASIO 2/2016 drivers Win8 Without a mess, there is no message
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neirbod
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Re: Pops and crackles with a twist
March 18, 14 10:00 PM
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This is mainly fixed in X3e. The delay in arming tracks is fixed, as well as the pops and clicks I got when arming and disarming. If others can confirm I will mark this as "fixed." The pops and clicks I get at other times (e.g., closing the preferences dialog) are still there until I switch driver mode as I noted earlier in this thread. Given few others have had this latter issue, I expect it is related to some as-yet-unknown hardware or software issue in my DAW. Fortunately with the effective work around I don't feel the need to figure it out.
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mudgel
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Re: Pops and crackles with a twist
March 19, 14 3:23 AM
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I've had a few issues as mentioned in this and other threads. The single thing that works to fix things is to make any minute change in the project, reverse it then save the project. Reopen and all fixed. This has worked for me 100%. I even experienced this with the first project I opened in the just released x3e.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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Splat
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Re: Pops and crackles with a twist
March 19, 14 4:08 AM
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Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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neirbod
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Re: Pops and crackles with a twist
March 19, 14 7:14 AM
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mudgel I've had a few issues as mentioned in this and other threads. The single thing that works to fix things is to make any minute change in the project, reverse it then save the project. Reopen and all fixed. This has worked for me 100%. I even experienced this with the first project I opened in the just released x3e.
Hi Mudgel, I am curious about your fix as I still think there is something going on in X3 that could be tweaked and more info on workarounds may help them to figure out what it is. Can you please give more detail about how your fix works? What does "reverse it" mean? Undo?
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Splat
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Re: Pops and crackles with a twist
March 19, 14 7:22 AM
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Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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neirbod
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Re: Pops and crackles with a twist
March 19, 14 7:51 AM
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CakeAlexS I may have to reverse my previous apology because I notice there are new drivers and firmware out
Thanks but I installed these updates when they came out nearly two weeks ago. There was no difference in behavior. If you look at the bug fix list associated with X3e you will see they explicitly mention fixing the RME issue. I knew CW was working on it (as I mentioned in earlier posts) but was not sure if it would come out in X3e or how much of the problem it would fix.
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mudgel
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Re: Pops and crackles with a twist
March 19, 14 9:28 AM
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With X3d and now x3e I've had a problem when I first open a project after the update.
I get clicks and pops as the audio engine engages and crackles galore, BUT the audio engine never actually runs. All the track and bus meters move as the project runs. The Master bus is pegged full with no further movement but the audio is never audible.
Quite by accident I made an accidental move on the screen which I undid with ctrl +z, When I closed the project I was asked to save it which I did.
On opening the same project everything worked. The project was created in X2a.
When I installed x3e this evening I had exactly the same experience on opening any project. When I opened the same project I had earlier got to run smoothly in x3d it too started to behave as per my earlier experience with X3d, so I made a small screen change and then using ctrl +z undid that and then saved. Again everything worked after closing then reopening Sonar. No matter which projects I opened they all worked OK. It's the weirdest thing but only in x3d & e as I detailed.
I didn't report the problem as it was fixed conclusively after the one fix and didn't come back until this update and now again is fixed.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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neirbod
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Re: Pops and crackles with a twist
March 19, 14 11:49 AM
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mudgel I get clicks and pops as the audio engine engages and crackles galore, BUT the audio engine never actually runs. All the track and bus meters move as the project runs. The Master bus is pegged full with no further movement but the audio is never audible. ... Again everything worked after closing then reopening Sonar. No matter which projects I opened they all worked OK. It's the weirdest thing but only in x3d & e as I detailed.
The behavior you are experiencing is very different than what I have. And closing/reopening following an edit does not fix my situation. Seems like very different things going on. Thanks for the info.
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