Post here only if you are happy with X1, and what major issues you'd like fixed.

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mavafamusic
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Re:Post here only if you are happy with X1, and what major issues you'd like fixed. 2011/10/08 02:05:17 (permalink)
I started with Sonar 7 then 8 then X-1c. Two things that I miss in X-1 is  don't show the envelope and hit the record button while player back. If I hit the record button.......... and then hit stop the recording track moves back and out of the time ruler.

Lots of time is waisted realigning the tracks to play in time.


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#31
FastBikerBoy
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Re:Post here only if you are happy with X1, and what major issues you'd like fixed. 2011/10/08 02:43:14 (permalink)
FWIW, I've used SOnar since V2 in what is best described as enthusiastic amateur looking to doing more with the right premises. i.e. I do work and record others but not as often as I'd like.

I use it for around 30 hours a week so I'm not taxing it a great deal but some of those 30 hours will be a 12 hour session. I don't use a huge amount of soft synths, it's mainly hardware synths for my MIDI stuff. Typical project 10 - 20 MIDI tracks, 20 - 30 Audio, 15 - 20 busses and around 30 - 40 plugins as well as using the PC EQ compression on most channels

Bugs aside and apart from last week when I had issues caused by memory timings on my O/C profile (which was crashing everything not just X1) I've found X1 rock solid, and I mean rock, since release. I've had maybe 2 or 3 crashes since release caused when I was testing a buss envelope cut & paste bug and once when I set a screenset to a snap value of 0 ticks, apart from that nothing in the stop or crash dept.

I find it better than other versions for looping. Only time I get loop dropouts now is if I try and move either the whole loop, or the start/end times outside of the now time. In a comping session I'll be looping, moving, changing etc for anything up to 2 hours without a break & without it dropping out. I've never been able to do that before.

Anyway I generally find X1 workflow much quicker for me.......... in no particular order likes and what I think could be improved. ** With the proviso that there is a bit of a learning curve involved**

Envelopes - are much improved. I usually have several on each track (avg. 10ish) and always found pre-X1 annoying in that I'd end up moving either the wrong envelope or clip by mistake. NOw there's no chance of that, switching 'modes' is quick and easy thanks to shift+click, I don't even need to think about it. Could be improved by having a popup on mouseover on the ghosted envelopes. It's quite hard to tell the colours when they are ghosted. The popup will IMHO make that part just about perfect.

Screensets - These really are THE big difference. Think layouts on steroids. They remember everything snap, hidden tracks, open windows, edit filter settings, etc. etc. - there's 10 of them recalled almost instantly. If you can imagine having 10 independant instances of the same project open where the only common thing that can't be changed is the now time position and that's pretty much it. Fantastic, only limited by your imagination. Improvements - more of them and a easier way to load and save indivdual ones from a library or manager.

Smart tool  Love not having to change tools hardly ever. The only tool I use in addition is the mute tool for comping. Would be better if there was a degree of customisation but it's set up more or less how I had PRV 1 in pre-X1 anyway. It's great not having to think ok I'm in the PRV, gotta change tools, or now I need the select tool etc.

Multidock no more windows that need to be endlessly cycled through or hidden with the mouse. Open a window dump it in the multidock, tab through them with ctrl+shift+arrow key. Hide the whole lot press D.

The whole thing of hiding stuff with keypresses is great. C control bar, I Inspector etc. I just don't see the complaints about how much space each part takes. It hides and shows instantly anyway. I guess pressing a key is hard work though. I'd like to see the inspector remember it's narrow setting though as a default if required. The control bar could be better thought out. Perhaps collapsible modules maybe? I don't really use it much other than as a state indicator but I can see why it would annoy some who want to see all the modules and use mouse/icons a lot

X1 seems to be like marmite, love it or hate it, there's not much in between (apparently)

Colour customisation isn't good but I've never customised much. I'm making music not a praticising graphic designer. having said that my only real wish there is that the current track colour change would stick.

As I said though, stability, it is the most solid Sonar I've worked with though in fairness V8 & 8.5 were pretty good for me as well. There are many others having problems though, seems to be luck of the draw. I don't think machine age or firepower is the issue though as my system is a bit long in the tooth now.

I wouldn't take my word for it or others on here though. Run the demo and see how it works for you. Only thing I would say is give it a fair run but think of it as a new program that is loosely based on the Sonar you know. I've found 99% of the changes make sense once I'm used to them.


***** All of the above is IMHO of course.

#32
sqye
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Re:Post here only if you are happy with X1, and what major issues you'd like fixed. 2011/10/08 21:38:08 (permalink)
That's weird!! What's up with that? Is this a common problem? Known issue?
mavafamusic


I started with Sonar 7 then 8 then X-1c. Two things that I miss in X-1 is  don't show the envelope and hit the record button while player back. If I hit the record button.......... and then hit stop the recording track moves back and out of the time ruler.

Lots of time is waisted realigning the tracks to play in time.



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#33
sqye
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Re:Post here only if you are happy with X1, and what major issues you'd like fixed. 2011/10/08 21:46:00 (permalink)
.

Wow, FastBikerBoy - thanks for the detailed feedback. This is much appreciated! Awesome you took the time, man.

Gracias, dude!

.

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#34
The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Post here only if you are happy with X1, and what major issues you'd like fixed. 2011/10/09 08:39:43 (permalink)
FBB,

 Are you using 10 envelopes (average) per track?


best,
mike




#35
dappa1
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Re:Post here only if you are happy with X1, and what major issues you'd like fixed. 2011/10/09 08:46:24 (permalink)
I have no complaints whatsoever!!! No glitches no bugs... no, no, no. no no, no no no no, no no no no, no there's no limit!

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#36
Rimshot
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Re:Post here only if you are happy with X1, and what major issues you'd like fixed. 2011/10/09 09:15:05 (permalink)
Hi FBB, I am interested in how you are using the plugins on your typical use. When doing a pop or rock song with let's say bass, drums, 2 electric guitara, acoustic, midi drums, 3 synths, and lead vocal with 3 bkg vocal tracks, maybe 8 audio tracks with EQ and limiting with some gates would equal about 15-20 plugins plus reverb and master limiting. Is that what you are doing? For your bus use, is that for subgrouping drums, bkg vocals, guitars, etc.? Thanks. Rimshot

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#37
FastBikerBoy
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Re:Post here only if you are happy with X1, and what major issues you'd like fixed. 2011/10/09 09:15:09 (permalink)
mike_mccue


FBB,

Are you using 10 envelopes (average) per track?


best,
mike


Perhaps I should re-word that, to if I'm using envelopes it's about 10 on average per track (that I use them on) not 10 on every track. Having said that most tracks end up with automation on them and they soon add up. Volume & Mute are used somewhere on almost all, then the majority of others are used for controlling send levels and sometimes pan to several busses, that'll usually take me about to 10, then any others that use FX in the bin will add even more, silly amounts some times.

I'm not sure my stuff sounds any better for it mind. I use a customised version of a template posted up here ages ago by Jonas (?? I think) with lots of real handy busses for helping with the final mix. I try and change very slightly the way verses and choruses sound overall to "maintain interest" is what Roey Izhaki suggested, hence lots of automation, probably too much...........

Thankfully X1 handles the envelopes in a much better way than previous versions. IMHO of course.
#38
FastBikerBoy
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Re:Post here only if you are happy with X1, and what major issues you'd like fixed. 2011/10/09 09:31:05 (permalink)
Rimshot


Hi FBB, I am interested in how you are using the plugins on your typical use. When doing a pop or rock song with let's say bass, drums, 2 electric guitara, acoustic, midi drums, 3 synths, and lead vocal with 3 bkg vocal tracks, maybe 8 audio tracks with EQ and limiting with some gates would equal about 15-20 plugins plus reverb and master limiting. Is that what you are doing? For your bus use, is that for subgrouping drums, bkg vocals, guitars, etc.? Thanks. Rimshot


Most of the plugins are in busses although I do use them on individual tracks as well obviously. I've done a search since my previous post and found the mixing template thread http://forum.cakewalk.com/fb.ashx?m=843953

Mine is based on that so it's mainly in busses - there's 4 reverb busses on mine plus a whole host of others, although some are now becoming more obsolete as the PC expands. I also use sub groups with a reverb on each but that's just to try and get stuff to blend better, throw on the choruses and delays on the other busses and that's well over 10 before any individual track effects.

I'm no expert mind so I don't think I'd take too much notice of me, but I learned an awful lot from the thread link/template above and Roey Izhaki's book "Mixing Audio" - I can't recommend both highly enough. The template is also uses a sub-master that splits the mix into a sub-master left & right which I mentioned elsewhere recently in a post about outputs being set to "None"

I do use a limiter on the master buss that I think is also in the above template. Have a look at that thread and you'll get a better idea of how mine is set up. I can't claim credit for the way I work, I've just 'stolen' ideas and bits & pieces from far more talented people than me.

Whether it all works or makes a difference isn't for me to decide but I'm having fun and that's what it's all about for me.

Big props to jsaras BTW.
#39
The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Post here only if you are happy with X1, and what major issues you'd like fixed. 2011/10/09 09:36:35 (permalink)
Thanks for explaining FBB.

best,
mike


#40
FastBikerBoy
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Re:Post here only if you are happy with X1, and what major issues you'd like fixed. 2011/10/09 10:08:28 (permalink)
No worries, I should also point out that the track count above is a starting point, I don't often end up trying to mix that number of tracks. They exist in the project but don't neccesarily all make it to the final mix, or not in their entirety anyway. I have enough problems with that bit with the few I do end up with.

For example I may well record 5 or 6 guitar different parts but only use 2 or 3 in the final mix, or maybe all of them but only different parts in different sections of the song. Another idea that adds to the track count I stole from somewhere (I've forgotten where) is using a cleaner sounding guitar playing the same part as a distorted guitar and sit that at a very low volume under the distorted guitar.

I'll also use a whole load of pad tracks that are almost inaudible but seem to make something 'miss' from the final mix if not there. (IIRC that's another Roey Izahki trick)

I sometimes wonder if I'm making things over complicated, 'cos every time I think I've got something I think is good, I'll listen to some of the great work from others on here and realise mine isn't that good after all. I often go back to the drawing board and that's what I'm mainly working on at the moment.

Still I'm having fun and that's the main reason I do this, for my pleasure. I don't have to worry about keeping clients happy although I will be working on others material more in the future so I guess I'd better step up the learning process.
#41
Rimshot
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Re:Post here only if you are happy with X1, and what major issues you'd like fixed. 2011/10/09 10:23:54 (permalink)
FBB,
Thanks for the response.  I too am experimenting and find that I am using alot less plugs overall as well as bussing.  I am trying to get the source as good as I can in order not to over complicate things.  I am also trying to create arrangements where the parts work in compliment with each other without having to double guitars, and more pads, etc. 
Funny, in the 80's, I spend loads of time as an engineer/producer fattening tracks up with stacks of tracks.  Now, I am becomming a minimulist and treat "space" without alot more respect than I ever did. 

I will review the link and resource you mentioned and I really appreciate your humble and very helpful threads on this forum. 

Thanks much.

Rimshot

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#42
sqye
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Re:Post here only if you are happy with X1, and what major issues you'd like fixed. 2011/10/09 12:38:30 (permalink)
.

Again, thanks for all your responses here, guys.

And Fast Biker Boy - you definitely have the best attitude there is to have.

Have fun, and you'll be successful - because you're ALREADY successful if you're having fun! 

After all, being a miserable professional is not a worthy goal, by most standards.

Cheers, man - and thanks again for all your elaboration here!

.


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#43
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