Colonel Sanders
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Problem Right From the Get-Go
I have an Allen & Heth Zed-10fx. I connected the USB cable and started MC5. The program has no problem getting a signal from the two mics I have connected to the mixer, but no matter how I assign the inputs or pan the mics on the mixer, it seems as if the mixer is sending a stereo feed to both tracks one and two.
I had though that if I pan one mic hard right on the mixer, and the other hard left, then I could send one mic to track 1 in MC5, and the other to track 2. Any thoughts?
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Guitarhacker
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Re:Problem Right From the Get-Go
2011/04/27 22:29:10
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when you right click on the track view control area ( in MC5) it should give you a pop up box where you can select the Right, Left, or stereo input for the channel.
Normally, you want to select the left or right.... not the stereo input for the audio track.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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Colonel Sanders
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Re:Problem Right From the Get-Go
2011/04/27 22:51:37
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I did that. Tried combo, including panning the track in MC5 to one side or the other, but I still get both mics in each track. Is there something about my mixer I don't understand? Shouldn't I be panning each mic hard left/right on the mixer, too?
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Colonel Sanders
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Re:Problem Right From the Get-Go
2011/04/27 22:54:32
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Further to my response, the choice I have under input is "left microphone, right microphone, or stereo microphone."
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Colonel Sanders
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Re:Problem Right From the Get-Go
2011/04/27 23:10:42
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Further still, nothing seems to work if everything on A&H mixer is panned hard right. When things are panned hard left, I get the signal in MC5. Does this suggest a problem with the wiring to the USB out in the mixer? I bought this "re-boxed" from ZZounds.com. I wonder if that means "defective."
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57Gregy
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Re:Problem Right From the Get-Go
2011/04/28 00:31:32
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Colonel Sanders
Further to my response, the choice I have under input is "left microphone, right microphone, or stereo microphone."
That sounds like it's only 'seeing' the stock computer sound card. In MC under Options>Audio, what is listed for Recording Device and Playback Device? Is the A&H listed? And I don't know about the particulars of the Zed, but you shouldn't have to pan the mixer. If a mic is plugged into input 1, you should be able to record from that input. If it's input 2, ditto. They may be listed as Left and Right, as my Focusrite Saffire is, but if you select that input it should record from it. Mics and guitars are mono devices, in most cases, and mono devices are almost always 'left'. panning right will mean none of the signal gets heard. Oh, and welcome to the forum.
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Guitarhacker
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Re:Problem Right From the Get-Go
2011/04/28 08:28:08
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A sound card, such as the Focusrite Saffire (which Greg & I both use) has TWO discreet outputs.... SO, when we plug a mic into one and a guitar into the other, we are able to assign one to the L and the other to the R, and the DAW (MC4/5) is able to see and properly route those 2 unique channels where we want them to go.
It is VERY possible that the H&A board only has one output channel and it's a stereo channel. If so, extreme panning would be needed to get 2 different channels. Hence the problem you are experiencing.
You may have to back up and hit plan B which would involve a nice 2 channel interface. Most interfaces ARE of the 2 channel variety (at a minimum) so you are generally safe with any decent interface with 2 channels..... be sure it does audio & midi in the same box..... USB to the computer. You could use the A&H as a mixer... for combining ...say, 2 guitar mics into one channel of the interface and input the mic into the other. You'd be using the mixer audio out into the interface audio channel to do this, not the USB output.
That's how I understand the issue as you stated it.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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Colonel Sanders
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Re:Problem Right From the Get-Go
2011/04/28 08:57:20
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Thanks Guitar Hacker. In fact, under Options Audio, what is listed is "left microphone (USB CODEC)," "Right Microphone (USB CODEC)."
Even if the mixer puts out a stereo mix through the USB port, when I pan hard right on the mixer, I should then hear only what's panned hard right on the track I've armed. But I hear nothing. When I pan hard left, then I hear both.
I probably will return the mixer and go with the Tascam 6 channel audio interface. I can say this much: with what little recording I got done last night, the sound was phenomanal.
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Beagle
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Re:Problem Right From the Get-Go
2011/04/28 09:57:51
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The manual on the ZED10 is confusing and we might have to experiment with a couple of different configurations before we can get it to work correctly.
the key appears to be in the 2 buttons near the USB port labelled RECORD BUS and AUX FX. one of the keys, anyways.
I think you need to have both buttons UP and make sure NOTHING is plugged into the PLAYBACK IN LEFT & RIGHT
The next thing is that you need to have one of your inputs panned hard left and the other one panned hard right where you have your sources plugged in. for example, if you have the mic plugged into channel 1, pan it hard left and pan channel 2 for your guitar cable hard right.
then in MC, insert an AUDIO track
for the input choose LEFT USB CODEC
make sure the little icon that says STEREO INTERLEAVE is showing MONO, if not, click it and change it to mono
then insert another AUDIO track
for the input of this one choose RIGHT USB CODEC
again - make sure the STEREO INTERLEAVE is MONO
now try to record and report back what happesn.
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Guitarhacker
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Re:Problem Right From the Get-Go
2011/04/28 10:09:22
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Codecs are not the best drivers to use, and Tascam is not what is recommended for an interface. There are problems associated with some Tascam interfaces.
Focusrite, M-Audio, PreSonus, and others are better.
Look at Beagle's Web site. He has set up some good information there on interfaces to help people select the right interface for them.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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57Gregy
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Re:Problem Right From the Get-Go
2011/04/28 10:27:32
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You don't have to pan the MC track that you're recording on.
Mono inputs are almost always left, so panning to the right will get you nothing, as you're experiencing. Disclaimer: but I don't know exactly how the Zed routes things.
If you really want to get a different interface. I recommend the Focurite Saffire 6 USB, although it is also English and the manual isn't very clear. At least the manual I have isn't.
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Colonel Sanders
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Re:Problem Right From the Get-Go
2011/04/28 10:37:41
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Well, maybe I don't understand how A&H routes things either. Maybe I should have tried with one mic and one guitar plugged in to the mixer, so I could be darn sure of what signal was going where. But I swear that i was getting both mics on both tracks, even though in arming the tracks I selected left mic for one, and right mic for the other.
It's infuriating!
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Beagle
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Re:Problem Right From the Get-Go
2011/04/28 10:40:07
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herb - I agree. but that's what the A&H uses and I'm just trying to get his A&H to work.
Steve - I don't understand what you're saying. did what I give you work or not and if not what happened?
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Beagle
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Re:Problem Right From the Get-Go
2011/04/28 10:48:37
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From Steve
For clarity's sake, I pushed the "record" button under inputs 1 and 2 on the A&H mixer, and then pushed the "record" button next to the USB jack, which (from what I was able to understand) was supposed to take the signal fed to the stereo record bus and feed it out through the USB. But somehow, I seemed to get a summed signal on one or both tracks.
I also not that the signal into MC5 was extremely hot, even with gain turned down on A&H mixer.
(For what it's worth). OK - looking at the routing again, I think you're right to have the RECORD button on channel 1 & 2 ON and the RECORD BUS by the USB port ON. but when you say you get a summed signal on one or both tracks, I don't understand what you mean there. and do you have channel 1 panned hard left and channel 2 panned hard right ON THE ZED? (NOT in MC)
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Colonel Sanders
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Re:Problem Right From the Get-Go
2011/04/28 11:20:21
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Note I am not at home right now, but I don't need to be to answer these questions.
I had one mic plugged into the first mono input on A&H (panned hard left), a second mic into the second mono input on A&H (panned hard right), and a line from my guitar into the third mono input, panned hard left. I had the record buttons on A&H depressed for all three channels, as well as the record button near the usb port. The goal was to send the guitar (mic and line from guitar) to one track, and vocals (other mic) to the second track, for simultaneous recording of voice and guitar, but with the ability to add f.x and e.q. to each as needed before mixing down to two-track stereo.
The one thing that I didn't do was make sure the stereo interleave was in mono. If that was the problem, then hopefully that will solve it. I will know later today. It seems odd, though, that the track would default to a stereo setting that allowed both mics to appear on one track.
Thanks for looking into this for me. I also submitted a helpdesk ticket to A&H; let's see what they say.
Cheers!
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Beagle
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Re:Problem Right From the Get-Go
2011/04/28 11:28:22
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The goal was to send the guitar (mic and line from guitar) to one track, and vocals (other mic) to the second track, for simultaneous recording of voice and guitar, but with the ability to add f.x and e.q. to each as needed before mixing down to two-track stereo. I am not sure if you and I are on the same page with this situation and it's possible you're trying to get something out of the ZED and MC which cannot be done. if you have 2 channels of the ZED being panned hard right then both of those will be SUMMED to ONE channel in MC. you cannot record 3 separate channels in MC, nor can you record 3 separate channels from the ZED. the ZED only outputs the TWO MAIN OUTS thru USB. MC only allows 2 simultaneous inputs. when you pan 2 of the channels to the right, the both of those channels will be summed on the right channel output from the ZED and will record both of those inputs onto one of the tracks. is this what you're expecting or are you expecting 3 separate tracks in MC?
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Colonel Sanders
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Re:Problem Right From the Get-Go
2011/04/28 11:36:30
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no I want to record three inputs (on A&H mixer) to two tracks (on MC5).
Inputs one and three were panned hard left on mixer, and input 2 was panned hard right. I had assumed that sendin that mix through the USB and arming track 1 as left and track 2 as right would give me inputs 1 and 3 (from A&H) on track 1 and input 2 (from A&H) on track 2. But that did not occur.
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Beagle
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Re:Problem Right From the Get-Go
2011/04/28 11:42:30
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ok, then we are on the same page. 1 & 3 should be summed on the left channel and 2 should be on the right channel in that scenerio.
IF you have selected the inputs correctly and if the interleave is set correctly.
MC should have the interleave set correctly if you're chosing a MONO input, but check to make sure.
if that doesn't work correctly, then post a screen shot of your project with the inputs and outputs clearly shown for each track and let us see what you see. if you don't know how to post screen shots, I'll post a link to a forum thread with instructions.
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Colonel Sanders
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Re:Problem Right From the Get-Go
2011/04/28 11:44:15
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When you say the interleave is set correctly, should the interleave button be lit up or dim?
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Beagle
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Re:Problem Right From the Get-Go
2011/04/28 12:12:14
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neither. the interleave button looks kind of like this:
<<<>>>
for stereo and
<<<
for mono.
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Colonel Sanders
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Re:Problem Right From the Get-Go
2011/04/28 14:27:21
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And can you briefly explain what it is that this button/toggle does?
Since the input is mono, I would have thought that the signal is recorded mono. But I noticed that each track has two level meters (as if there was a stereo feed), and that there is a slider to pan left or right. . .
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Colonel Sanders
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Re:Problem Right From the Get-Go
2011/04/28 14:33:12
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By the way, your advice conforms to the advice from A&H help desk: this is a signal routing issue on the mixer. If you are looking to record two tracks individually, you need to check that the 'RECORD BUS' option for USB SEND is enabled below the physical USB connection on the mixer.
Make sure that RECORD buttons are pressed IN for each track and that ONLY the 'Record Bus' button is pressed IN for the
'RECORD OUT + USB OUT SOURCE' option. Pan one channel hard left, the other hard right and in the DAW; select 'Left Microphone (USB Codec)' as input to one mono track and 'Right Microphone (USB Codec)' for the other.
If you need anything else, just let me know.
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Beagle
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Re:Problem Right From the Get-Go
2011/04/28 16:14:40
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the interleave determines how the track is seen by the project in MC. if it is on stereo, then the output into the summing mixer will be stereo. if the track itself is mono and the interleave is on stereo then you probably will get output from that track only on one side (probably the left).
it should work correctly by default based on whether you choose a mono or stereo input. but you should check it since you are having problems.
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Colonel Sanders
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Re:Problem Right From the Get-Go
2011/04/29 09:32:39
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I'm fed up. I am returning the A+H mixer in favor of a D/A converter, which probably will come with Cubase OEM software. Thanks everyone for your comments and suggestions.
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NashvilleKat1968
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Re:Problem Right From the Get-Go
2011/04/29 12:25:09
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57Gregy
You don't have to pan the MC track that you're recording on.
Mono inputs are almost always left, so panning to the right will get you nothing, as you're experiencing. Disclaimer: but I don't know exactly how the Zed routes things.
If you really want to get a different interface. I recommend the Focurite Saffire 6 USB, although it is also English and the manual isn't very clear. At least the manual I have isn't.
Great discussion as always! You guys are so helpful here. I have a question about the statement I put in bold above. I may be ignorant to the way things work in the computer recording world, but it didn't work this way on my digital recorder. On it I could plug into the guitar input and record to the track and it would lay it in the center. Then when I was mixing it would allow me to pan the recorded part anywhere across the stereo spectrum. Since moving to the computer I plug into the instrument jack on my interface and when assigning inputs and outputs in MC5 I have the option on my inputs to record either in stereo, left, or right. For the output I only have a choice for the left. No matter which inputs I choose the sound is always on the left. After the part is recorded, I'm stuck with everything on the left side except midi parts. I can't pan it after recording either. What if I want a guitar track on the right side in the final mix? How do I do this? Or am I stuck with everything on the left side? If so, that is very limiting.
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57Gregy
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Re:Problem Right From the Get-Go
2011/04/29 13:58:50
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If the interface's output is always on the left from the instrument input, select Left input in the MC track pane when recording.
I always get a mono track that can be panned recardless of whether I select R or L, as long as it's the one I'm plugged into. And I've never clicked that interleave thingy.
What interface is it?
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Beagle
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Re:Problem Right From the Get-Go
2011/04/29 16:55:23
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greg's comment above is actually not applicable for units like the ZED. the ZED outputs the MIXED MAINS to the stereo input to MC via USB. so if you want to record 2 separate mono tracks, you have to pan the inputs hard left and right. if you don't, it will mix the two for the main outs and BOTH will be centered in the stereo output of the mains of the ZED and therefore it will be that way in MC when recorded.
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57Gregy
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Re:Problem Right From the Get-Go
2011/04/29 19:25:53
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I'm glad you downloaded the manual. 
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Beagle
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Re:Problem Right From the Get-Go
2011/04/29 19:36:55
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57Gregy
I'm glad you downloaded the manual.
just FYI, any of the "usb mixer" types with only 2 USB inputs to the computer work that way. like the behringers, they attach the USB soundcard to the Main Outs of the mixer. only the mixers who have multiple inputs to the computer are different. usually only the firewire ones do that, but not necessarily. but MOST of the mixer with USB just attach the two Main Outs to the USB soundcard.
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57Gregy
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Re:Problem Right From the Get-Go
2011/04/29 19:45:06
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Beagle
57Gregy
I'm glad you downloaded the manual.
just FYI, any of the "usb mixer" types with only 2 USB inputs to the computer work that way. like the behringers, they attach the USB soundcard to the Main Outs of the mixer. only the mixers who have multiple inputs to the computer are different. usually only the firewire ones do that, but not necessarily. but MOST of the mixer with USB just attach the two Main Outs to the USB soundcard.
Just like a non-USB mixer. Good to know, but my brain is getting full...
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