Puzzled - Export WAV and MP3 volume too low

Looking for some help from someone who has solved this problem.  Hopefully I'm not the only one...

The problem:  The rendered audio export is noticeably lower than anything else I've done or anything on the commercial market, by about 6 db.

I've searched this forum and found tons of posts on things related to "hey dude, you need to master it" and "hey dude, turn up the master out volume on your audio interface".   I assure you this is not my problem.   I know how to master (I used to do it commercially).  I've used Sonar for years and I haven't had a problem in the past.  It seems that X1 is different somehow.  
Here's my checklist:
Mastering plugins:  Check.  Using UAD-2, Waves Multi-Maximizer, etc.
Audio interface:  Using RME Fireface 800, volume set to 100%.
Windows:  Set audio interface outputs to 100%.
Started with the "what you hear" export setting and tried nearly every option, with no changes in result.

I also tried using some of the other FireFace analog outputs such as 3/4 instead of the 1/2 pair.  No difference.
I tried outputting from Main bus, the output interfaces directly, and even set up a new bus routing Main to the new output bus.  No difference.
I tried mixdown in realtime mode, listening to the output play as it renders.  No difference.

I'm totally lost on this one.   Like I said, I've done this in the past with Sonar Producer 6 and had no issues.  I'm following the same procedure I used to do.  X1 consistently outputs about -6 db as compared to Sonar 6.   

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks.

Bristol_Jonesey


Are your master faders in Sonar set at 0dB?

Is everything routed to your master bus (directly or via another bus)?

Yes, all master faders to 0db.   Everything routed to master.   The mix sounds perfectly fine and like a master should.... until I mix it down.  The WAV file is very quiet.   There are no peaks above the -6db range in the exported WAV.    So it's almost like it's mastered at -6dB.   My mastering plugins are set to -0.1 db.

This has nothing to do with your audio interface, as it does not come into play during file exports, so you can at least save yourself the trouble of investigating that avenue any further.

It's not a mastering problem.

It is most likely a "mastering problem", insofar as the signal is being limited by something on your master bus. You listed two plugins as "mastering plugins", one of which is the Waves Multi-maximizer but the other isn't specified beyond "UAD2". Is it perhaps a compressor in front of the L3? And what plugins comprise the "etc." part of that list?

Don't take offense, but are you sure you're using the L3 properly? Just because the global brickwall limit is set to -0.1db doesn't mean the output is guaranteed to ever reach that level. That will depend on the settings for each of the plugin's five independent limiters.

Perhaps a screenshot of your master bus, with plugins and their settings might yield a helpful clue.

Getting your mix to "standard levels" starts in the recording stage and carries over to the mixing and mastering stage.

If your 6dB lower than all the others, i would remix your song and cut out all the unwanted frequencies that are building up in your song and not letting your mix be as loud as it could be. All these unwanted frequencies in all your tracks build up and the more tracks that are in your project more junk frequencies there will be.

Complimentary EQ techniques is a start. I would look into that for now.

Cj

If you post a portion of the output file that is too low in volume we could take a look and perhaps see if there is something that is preventing it from being made louder.

Are you using softsynths? If so, make sure your audio and midi volume levels are up on each synth.
That one has gotten me a couple of times...

Otherwise, for me, it always seems to be the mix and main out levels as stated above - watch your meters..

V

There was a bug in Pan Law implementation that was finally fixed in X1 I believe.
Check what yours are set at. Do some experimenting with different.types.

I am having the same issue.  Using just a softsynth drum track and audio bass track, playing direct from Sonar X3, the master volume floats between -3 to -6 db.   When I export these tracks and reimport into an audio track and play that track the volume floats between -18 and -12 db.   Trying to find a solution.  PS all faders are on 0.

John
When I export a mix down to a stereo file I always route everything and I mean everything through my master buss and select only it for the export. I do not select all the tracks or "what you hear" ever! Just the master buss. I have been doing it this way for a long time and can report no problems with doing it this way. 

I realize I'm responding to an old response to and even older (twice re-awakened) thread, but I second this approach. This automatically excludes sends to headphone outputs or other external gear, and guarantees you get what you hear if Master bus is the only thing going to Main Out and Main Out hardware bus level is 0dB (something for the most recent poster to double-check).
 
I also often take the intermediate step of bouncing the Master bus to a track that outputs to Main Outs. This gives me an archive of the finished track that's tied to the project and allows for real-time A/B listening or null testing (with phase inverted) against the live mix on the Master bus. If that checks out, I export the bounced track with Source=Tracks.

Hi Guys, I'm not a specialist but I had the same problem and I might have found some kind of solution. 
The issue here is not that Sonar renders at a lower lever but it playbacks about 6 db  higher than media players. 
So If you want a more realistic playback you might lower your master level at -6 db and get it back on zero before rendering or if as me you have done your mixing already then move your master all the way up to 6 db and the rendering will be at standard volume.
 
I found this because after I render my mix inside Sonar And found it ok, then I looked for the audio file and actuality sounded lower outside sonar, so the the problem could not be the file but that Sonar playbacks louder.
 
I have heard recommendations about mixing at a lower volume or importing your reference tracks. This might be one of the reasons why. 

What is the high level summary of actions items for bouncing, rendering, burning to CD?
 
I am confused. How does your interface play into this?
 
I thought you selected bounce to track, select Master Buss, click the necessary settings for 16Bit etc. and that is it.
 
Am I missing something...probably, as I could only follow half of what was discussed over a year ago.
 
 

And another resurrection!!
 
Also, export bit depth will NOT determine overall level. Never has, never will.

maxweltd
@rickgn I had the same issue. You are going to kick yourself.... wait for it... On your master bus, check the mains out. Guarantee that is the problem, they are set too low.

That was it for me...feel stupid, thanks man

Sorry to restart this this particular thread, but I am having the same issue. I have checked all outputs, all routing etc. I can play a track as loud as I can get it in Sonar, but the exported wav file is ridiculously quiet. For example - in X3, my Master bus is on 0, and my hardware output is on 0, and my UR22 with headphones plugged in is on about 1/4. I export the file, then to get any decent volume on playback I have to turn my UR22 up to about 3/4, and even then it's still quieter than when it was playing back in Sonar. I have tried a bunch of different media players, and they are all the same. I end up having to take the track into Audacity and apply a volume boost to make it acceptable. If I put the track onto my phone, and play it back in the car, it is still too quiet. The really odd thing is that if I then import the exported file back into Sonar, its nice and loud. I feel that this should be pointing me to a possible solution somehow.....
 
This is really starting to get me down.....so much so that I feel it's time to start experimenting with different DAWs, although I don't really want to - I have too much money invested in Sonar to dump it, but it is starting to look like the only option.....but it looks like Sonar doesn't like me thinking about that - I tried exporting all my tracks as individual files so I could import them into something else and see what happens with the volume when I export it from my chosen something else, but every time I try exporting the tracks, I get 24 separate wav files, all EXACTLY the same size, and all of them TOTALLY SILENT. I tried using the 'audible bounce' option, and I can indeed hear the song playing while it is exporting, but I still end up with 24 tracks of nothing........arrrrgggh!
 
If I had hair I'd be tearing it out about now. I've found lots of questions about this exact 'low volume' problem, and it seems the usual solution is when someone realises that they haven't turned up the hardware output before mixdown, but as I said, mine is OK, so that doesn't seem to be the issue.
 
If anyone can assist, I will be forever grateful.....even if that assistance shows that I have forgotten something basic and I end up looking like an idiot (wouldn't be the first time!)....just help me please!
 
UPDATE - OK......I said I'd end up looking like an idiot....but at least I have solved the 24 tracks of silence problem. Turning off Fast Bounce solved that part of my problem. I'm guessing that there's probably something in the manual that would have told me that, so, as expected, the fault is mine. D'Oh! But I still have the 'exported track is too quiet' problem. I might now try turning off Fast Bounce and try exporting the whole mix again
 
Another Update - turning Fast Bounce off slightly improved the volume of the exported full mix.

Thanks for the reply. I exported the mix as you suggested, it was still quieter than it was when playing the mix in Sonar, by quite a bit. I then imported it back into my project, routed it as suggested, and in Sonar it was getting close to the volume of the mix, but it was still noticably quieter..
 
I have every track routed to a bus (drums, bass, guitars, vocals and backing vocals, and all those busses are routed to the Master bus, and the master bus goes to the hardware output.