AnsweredQuestions about Sonar 2017.03 new PRV

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Steve_Karl
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Re: Questions about Sonar 2017.03 new PRV 2017/04/04 05:27:05 (permalink)
Thanks Walt. "the minus sign" - I've been doing that since the beginning of X3.
I was looking for more clarity on the most recent change.

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Steve_Karl
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Re: Questions about Sonar 2017.03 new PRV 2017/04/04 05:34:21 (permalink)
Tom Riggs
You can still display multiple controller lanes. You will find the option under View>Show Multiple lanes.
Then you can click the + sign to add another lane.
 
If you want to see only one lane turn the option off again and then you have one lane you can select the various controllers that you want to edit.
 
I'm not sure why the option under controllers to display multiple controllers is greyed out. Perhaps is should be removed completely.


Thanks Tom


post edited by Steve_Karl - 2017/04/04 06:46:07

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Steve_Karl
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Re: Questions about Sonar 2017.03 new PRV 2017/04/04 05:35:32 (permalink)
redundant post
post edited by Steve_Karl - 2017/04/21 11:40:04

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Steve_Karl
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Re: Questions about Sonar 2017.03 new PRV 2017/04/04 05:39:04 (permalink)
Tom Riggs
I'm not sure why the option under controllers to display multiple controllers is greyed out. Perhaps is should be removed completely.


I think it should be repaired and along with the the option to show only 2 of 4 should be available right there in the controller pane under the piano keys.
CTRL Click or little square check boxes would be fine.


post edited by Steve_Karl - 2017/04/04 06:33:49

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WallyG
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Re: Questions about Sonar 2017.03 new PRV 2017/04/04 16:37:37 (permalink)
Steve_Karl
Thanks Walt. "the minus sign" - I've been doing that since the beginning of X3.
I was looking for more clarity on the most recent change.




 
Steve,
I guess I wasn’t clear with my response. I thought I was clarifying the recent change to the PRV as far as displaying one or more controller lanes.
 
My Statement from a previous post:
“…I can display any or all of the controller lanes that I desire.”
 
Your question:
“…Does this mean that if there are 4 controller lanes you can just choose to see only the 2 that you want to see and the other 2 are hidden?”
 
My Answer:
….Say you have 4 controller lanes that have data on them and you want to work on 2 of them. Click on the minus sign of the 2 lanes you want to close. You now have the 2 lanes left that you want to work on. If you want to bring back the other two lanes, click on the + sign on the bottom left and type which lane(s) you desire to add. The data will still be on the lane.
 
This is how “I can display any or all of the controller lanes that I desire”.
 
The way Cakewalk has implemented multiple controller lanes is a step backwards from the way you could do this previously and could be greatly improved. I would like to submit a feature request, but Cakewalk has moved that to the "Bakery" and I don't do the "Bakery"
 
Walt

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Steve_Karl
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Re: Questions about Sonar 2017.03 new PRV 2017/04/04 16:41:57 (permalink)
Thanks Walt. I get it now. The remove and add option is now farther away and takes more steps.

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WallyG
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Re: Questions about Sonar 2017.03 new PRV 2017/04/04 16:49:42 (permalink)
Steve_Karl
Thanks Walt. I get it now. The remove and add option is now farther away and takes more steps.




Yup!

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cparmerlee
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Re: Questions about Sonar 2017.03 new PRV 2017/04/05 02:34:11 (permalink)
Steve_Karl
Thanks Walt. I get it now. The remove and add option is now farther away and takes more steps.



It is for your own protection, like a trigger lock on a gun.  :)

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Steve_Karl
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Re: Questions about Sonar 2017.03 new PRV 2017/04/05 23:52:07 (permalink)
cparmerlee
Steve_Karl
Thanks Walt. I get it now. The remove and add option is now farther away and takes more steps.



It is for your own protection, like a trigger lock on a gun.  :)


Yea. The new improved PRV with child protective caps on everything.

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Anderton
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Re: Questions about Sonar 2017.03 new PRV 2017/04/06 01:15:50 (permalink)
I realize some people prefer to do everything in the PRV, I get that. But a long time ago I learned there were benefits to using the PRV and benefits to using the Track View (editing controllers with a spline-based approach, showing ghosted controllers against the controller being edite, seeing controllers overlaid on each other, etc.). Before it was possible to extend the controller to whatever height you wanted in the PRV, I used the Track View in-line PRV to do that. 
 
So my MIDI experience involves both views, as well as forays into the Event List, Step Sequencer, and guitar neck views. If I had to use only one view, I would find it limiting. But I use each view for what it does best, and that takes care of what I need.

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OldNick
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Re: Questions about Sonar 2017.03 new PRV 2017/04/06 02:47:50 (permalink)
Well my take on this is...
- it should have been documented at shout level, it's so different..
- while I can see having all tracks in the PRV (sort of), they badly need to be colour differentiated IMO

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rogeriodec
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Re: Questions about Sonar 2017.03 new PRV 2017/04/06 13:01:05 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Steve_Karl 2017/11/11 14:16:21
I spend almost all of my time using PRV, since I work with countless synths, each with its own requirements and quirks, but all requiring 100% MIDI. And I'm sure many other users also have this profile. This explains my requirement for a better PRV, not the reverse, as it is happening.

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OldNick
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Re: Questions about Sonar 2017.03 new PRV 2017/04/06 13:22:33 (permalink)
rogeriodec
I spend almost all of my time using PRV, since I work with countless synths, each with its own requirements and quirks, but all requiring 100% MIDI. And I'm sure many other users also have this profile. This explains my requirement for a better PRV, not the reverse, as it is happening.


OK. I have seen some posts saying "that's the way YOU work"...but I think that there are a LOT of MIDI-only workers....the very power that is available from a DAW encourages that.
 
But if you take some time understanding (god I hope that word, even when I use it) the new PRV, you can still work exclusively with MIDI tracks...it's just that PRV was all about MIDI and now it's not. I am not sure the new :PRV is best, but it can be tailored.....to suit even thee and me....and I am MIDI thru and thru!
 
Apply the Filter in the new PRV (it will be highlighted), then filter OFF all the non-MIDI tracks. Basically you are back where you were. But instead of the old dropdown you are presented with a track list you can choose from. Single or multi.
 
I am still out there if it's "better", but I see what it's doing and I hope I helped.

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rogeriodec
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Re: Questions about Sonar 2017.03 new PRV 2017/04/06 13:27:24 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Steve_Karl 2017/11/11 14:16:39
I did not say that the PRV does not work anymore, yes it works and I can do everything I did in the previous version.
But now, it takes more time, has more steps, is more laborious.

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OldNick
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Re: Questions about Sonar 2017.03 new PRV 2017/04/06 13:30:32 (permalink)
Forking Hay. What? Sorry man. Did not mean to offend.
 
Wow!

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rogeriodec
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Re: Questions about Sonar 2017.03 new PRV 2017/04/06 13:42:04 (permalink)
OldNick
Forking Hay. What? Sorry man. Did not mean to offend.
 
Wow!


I was not offended. Sorry if I made that up.
I was just laconic. 

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chuckebaby
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Re: Questions about Sonar 2017.03 new PRV 2017/04/06 15:49:43 (permalink)
Roger, I agree with some of what you are saying.
The PRV changes could use some improvements and hopefully those will addressed in this next update.
But for the most part what we are seeing is a relatively small group of users unhappy with the PRV changes.
think about how many people use sonar and its PRV. id say only 50% visit this forum. So we have only 50% of users giving their opinions and im going to guess again and say approximately 5% have some grips.
 
Change stinks sometimes, I get that. but sometimes it takes a while to get used to that change.
it takes a while to settle in and work a little bit differently and in the end we hope it is for the better.
If it is not.... we either A- force ourselves to get used to it or B- Use another product.
I'd hate to see you use another product because... while sometimes I find it annoying you create 4 posts in a row when you could condense them in to 1... What you are really doing is bring a different prospective to the table which is brilliant. This product needs people like you to give feedback.
 
Hey, I hope things become easier for you. don't get too down on it and try to find some positives in there some where. Wishing you the best.

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Steve_Karl
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Re: Questions about Sonar 2017.03 new PRV 2017/04/06 20:24:39 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby rogeriodec 2017/04/06 20:26:43
rogeriodec
I did not say that the PRV does not work anymore, yes it works and I can do everything I did in the previous version.
But now, it takes more time, has more steps, is more laborious.


That is exactly my assessment also.
The specific reasons as I see them are:
- loss of ticking colors to hide/show and then hot keys V+A
- MSR Buttons on the far right
- Loss of clicking on a note to select that track for editing (child protection cap is now in place)
- Loss of being able to selectively choose which tracks to open in a PRV and
  forced to open every track in the project ( along with 75 or 80 audio tracks OMG! ... totally insane )

I do see some good ideas,
like one space tall tracks on the right, but it's not worth the trade for me to have the MSR buttons on the far right.
I wonder what is the up side to having them on the right? Is it that it's harder to accidentally tick one of them?

TAB through notes is cool but I can live without it,
but I can't afford the lost time by loosing the hot keys that are now gone.

And the controller lane idea is a good start also
but requires more effort to move between only 1 and all, than the old PRV.

The end of the advert reads:
"... SONAR has transformed MIDI editing from tedious to transparent."

I'll be watching and hoping. Maybe it will get there.

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cyberzip
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Re: Questions about Sonar 2017.03 new PRV 2017/04/06 21:21:43 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Steve_Karl 2017/11/11 14:17:38
Anderton
I realize some people prefer to do everything in the PRV, I get that. But a long time ago I learned there were benefits to using the PRV and benefits to using the Track View (editing controllers with a spline-based approach, showing ghosted controllers against the controller being edite, seeing controllers overlaid on each other, etc.). Before it was possible to extend the controller to whatever height you wanted in the PRV, I used the Track View in-line PRV to do that. 
 
So my MIDI experience involves both views, as well as forays into the Event List, Step Sequencer, and guitar neck views. If I had to use only one view, I would find it limiting. But I use each view for what it does best, and that takes care of what I need.




Craig, I totally agree! That's why I think showing all tracks by default in the PRV track pane unnecessarily makes selecting tracks messy - if you want to mute something non-MIDI, you have the track view for that. (And having to fine-tune filters every time you open the PRV isn't really a time-saver...)
 
Anyway, I don't like to whine and I will try to keep an open mind for changes. But I hope Cakewalk will keep on refining the PRV... :) We are definitely on to something good in the long run!
 
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cyberzip
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Re: Questions about Sonar 2017.03 new PRV 2017/04/13 12:05:22 (permalink)
Steve_Karl
TAB through notes is cool but I can live without it,
but I can't afford the lost time by loosing the hot keys that are now gone.



What hot keys are you referring to here? V & A?
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Steve_Karl
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Re: Questions about Sonar 2017.03 new PRV 2017/04/13 14:14:58 (permalink)
cyberzip
What hot keys are you referring to here? V & A?



Previous to 2017.03 (which I don't have and never will have)
When I have a PRV filled with many tracks and want to see only one track:
I most always, first, click on a note in the PRV
and then that track becomes active and is highlighted in the right side list of tracks.
( 2017.03 eliminated the possibility of clicking on a note and having that track become active and also highlighted in the list. )

I then un-tick the color box for that track and type a "V"
the "V" inVerts the selection so now I only see the track that I originally un-ticked the color for.
It also works with multiple tracks, so If I want to see 3 tracks only out of 20 I un-tick the color on those tracks and type a "V".
Typing "A" once again shows you All tracks.

It's very fast for me to do this pervious to 2017.03

2017.03 eliminated the quick toggling of the view of tracks in this way, i.e. by un-ticking a color and typing "V" and then "A" to once again show all.




post edited by Steve_Karl - 2017/04/16 12:36:38

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Bob Currie [Cakewalk]
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Re: Questions about Sonar 2017.03 new PRV 2017/04/21 01:50:10 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Steve_Karl 2017/11/11 14:19:04
Hey all,
Thanks for the feedback.  We'll get there.  If you're interested, please check out the Early Access of 17.04.  Audio tracks no longer display in the PRV by default (but there is an option in the View menu to allow them), and you can also check an option to auto-filter tracks to the selection when you open the PRV.  This will will feel pretty familiar since that was the previous behavior.  If at anytime you want to see the full list of tracks just click the filter to shut it off.  We've also fixed some flakiness in the track list picker's selection/highlighting gestures.  For what it's worth we also found a couple of issues after Early Release that are pegged to be fixed before Final Release.  There's a lot more in 17.04 so please let us know your thoughts.  Thanks!
 
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Re: Questions about Sonar 2017.03 new PRV 2017/04/21 07:15:01 (permalink)
Hey Bob, thanks a lot for posting a heads-up!
 
I just read through the changes for 2017.04 Early Access and the new PRV additions sound really, really good! :) Seems like it's everything I wanted for my workflow to stay efficient while at the same time enjoying the benefits of "the new PRV". I hope others will like the new changes as well.
 
Thanks again listening and also for communicating with us in these forums, it really inspires confidence in Cakewalk. :)
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Steve_Karl
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Re: Questions about Sonar 2017.03 new PRV 2017/04/21 10:33:31 (permalink)
Thanks Bob Currie.

It's good to see a return to speed with some of these these changes.

I also read through the changes for 2017.04 Early Access but it's not detailed enough to know if:

I think one that is essential will be being able to click on a note in PRV and have that action highlight and move to that track in the track list and also make that track active and also editable.
Hopefully we'll get the best of both worlds here soon.

Thanks for keeping an eye on this.


post edited by Steve_Karl - 2017/04/21 11:42:33

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