R.F.L
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RE: Sonar vs Reaper
Hey,
I play with a band where when we record we record our parts at home and then upload to a ftp.
I use Sonar X3 producer and the rest of the band use a DAW called reaper.
We´re having trouble with when record my drums in Sonar (in Midi) then save it as a midifile.
When they import it in reaper it does not sound the same, and has a bunch of double strokes here and there.
They Think I should switch to reaper which is in my World a downgrade to a DAW that is not as good as my X3, and I have to relearn everything, I think the software is messy and too plain.
Anybody have any experience with reaper? or in general what is your thoughts about?
/Matt
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Mesh
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RE: Sonar vs Reaper
2014/11/04 14:37:18
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Matt, I don't use Reason and not sure if this will help (or not)......but, found this link at the Popellerheads website: https://www.propellerheads.se/substance/rewirehelp/index.cfm?fuseaction=get_article&article=sonar2 ReWire Tutorial Article Sonar - Step 2: Routing MIDIVia ReWire you are not limited to transmitting only audio from Reason to Sonar, you can also send MIDI from Sonar to Reason. This way you can control everything from Sonar - in effect, Reason becomes a rack of devices that you play from the Rewire host! Or, if you like, you can have Reason's sequencer play some of the devices and the sequencer in Sonar play some - it's up to you. 1. In Reason, create the device you want to play. 2. In Sonar, select the MIDI track in the ReWire folder track we created in step 1. 3. Pull down the CH drop down menu on the track inspector to the left and select the Reason device you want to transmit MIDI to. The output of the MIDI track is now routed to that device. If you enter some MIDI notes on the track and hit play, you will hear them being played by this Reason instrument device. This works just as if each Reason device was a stand-alone hardware MIDI sound module. You can also play Reason instruments "live" this way, by selecting the proper MIDI input for the track in Sonar (the input to which your MIDI keyboard is connected). All incoming MIDI is immediately sent to the track's MIDI Output - the Reason device.
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dubdisciple
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RE: Sonar vs Reaper
2014/11/04 14:50:20
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Mesh
Matt, I don't use Reason and not sure if this will help (or not)......but, found this link at the Popellerheads website:
https://www.propellerheads.se/substance/rewirehelp/index.cfm?fuseaction=get_article&article=sonar2
ReWire Tutorial Article Sonar - Step 2: Routing MIDIVia ReWire you are not limited to transmitting only audio from Reason to Sonar, you can also send MIDI from Sonar to Reason. This way you can control everything from Sonar - in effect, Reason becomes a rack of devices that you play from the Rewire host! Or, if you like, you can have Reason's sequencer play some of the devices and the sequencer in Sonar play some - it's up to you.
1. In Reason, create the device you want to play.
2. In Sonar, select the MIDI track in the ReWire folder track we created in step 1.
3. Pull down the CH drop down menu on the track inspector to the left and select the Reason device you want to transmit MIDI to. The output of the MIDI track is now routed to that device.
If you enter some MIDI notes on the track and hit play, you will hear them being played by this Reason instrument device. This works just as if each Reason device was a stand-alone hardware MIDI sound module.
You can also play Reason instruments "live" this way, by selecting the proper MIDI input for the track in Sonar (the input to which your MIDI keyboard is connected). All incoming MIDI is immediately sent to the track's MIDI Output - the Reason device.
This is great advice except he said Reaper :)
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dubdisciple
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RE: Sonar vs Reaper
2014/11/04 14:59:00
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As far as my thoughts about Reaper:
Pro: Cheap, Great routing options once you get used to the idea that there are no buses
Con: Does not have the bells and whistles of other Daws. The workflow can be a bit wonky if used to other DAWS
The biggest con can be overcome for the most part with plugins. Reaper (non-pro license) + Komplete on sale is less than man of the major DAW packages. I have dabbled in it, but the fact that I never needed it made it never worth my time to get too deeply into it, since it does fee like a downgrade from X3 to me. I try to avoid exporting midi files into other programs, preferring to instead export the rendered audio with no effects if a raw sound is needed.
A few questions. Are they triggering the same VSTs with the midi files you export? Are the same effects applied as well? Right away we know they are not running Pro channel effects so make sure all these things line up. The other issue could be resolution settings could be a mismatch.
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Mesh
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RE: Sonar vs Reaper
2014/11/04 15:45:43
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dubdisciple
Mesh
Matt, I don't use Reason and not sure if this will help (or not)......but, found this link at the Popellerheads website:
https://www.propellerheads.se/substance/rewirehelp/index.cfm?fuseaction=get_article&article=sonar2
ReWire Tutorial Article Sonar - Step 2: Routing MIDIVia ReWire you are not limited to transmitting only audio from Reason to Sonar, you can also send MIDI from Sonar to Reason. This way you can control everything from Sonar - in effect, Reason becomes a rack of devices that you play from the Rewire host! Or, if you like, you can have Reason's sequencer play some of the devices and the sequencer in Sonar play some - it's up to you.
1. In Reason, create the device you want to play.
2. In Sonar, select the MIDI track in the ReWire folder track we created in step 1.
3. Pull down the CH drop down menu on the track inspector to the left and select the Reason device you want to transmit MIDI to. The output of the MIDI track is now routed to that device.
If you enter some MIDI notes on the track and hit play, you will hear them being played by this Reason instrument device. This works just as if each Reason device was a stand-alone hardware MIDI sound module.
You can also play Reason instruments "live" this way, by selecting the proper MIDI input for the track in Sonar (the input to which your MIDI keyboard is connected). All incoming MIDI is immediately sent to the track's MIDI Output - the Reason device.
This is great advice except he said Reaper :)
Oooops......LOL......I totally got caught up in Googling, and all kinds of stuff popped up. On the other hand Matt, if you ever decide to get Reason and need routing info....... 
post edited by Mesh - 2014/11/04 15:52:37
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dubdisciple
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RE: Sonar vs Reaper
2014/11/04 16:12:56
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way to make lemonade out of lemons!! :)
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Jeff Evans
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RE: Sonar vs Reaper
2014/11/04 16:23:08
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While still in Sonar as a midi file convert all your drum midi parts to audio and import those into Reaper instead. Moving midi files bewteen DAW's can be tricky at times.
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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R.F.L
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RE: Sonar vs Reaper
2014/11/04 17:31:39
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yeah, moving midifiles between DAW`s seems NOT to be the easy solution one would Think...
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MachineClaw
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RE: Sonar vs Reaper
2014/11/04 17:32:51
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Do you have Reaper? get it.
test all of your exporting etc inhouse with your system. if it works for you a good chance it should work for them. you can also save some time by creating Reaper files for your bandmates generating much good will with them.
they won't know nor care what you generated or use Sonar, they will be happy getting reaper files that work for them.
it also helps fix errors or weird things when you can talk apples to apples. You don't have to learn all the bells and wistles or workflow stuff just doing simple track / audio / midi this way.
you happy, they happy.
I don't know why Reaper would change the midi file generated by Sonar. Can't help there.
(Reaper is one of the few DAWs I don't own, sorry).
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R.F.L
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RE: Sonar vs Reaper
2014/11/04 17:33:00
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@Mesh, thanks for tryin to help, but we´re talking about reaper, not reason.
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R.F.L
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RE: Sonar vs Reaper
2014/11/04 17:36:08
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Yes I have reaper istalled on my system, I have imported the midifile, but what seems to sound ok on my system never does on theirs...
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MachineClaw
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RE: Sonar vs Reaper
2014/11/04 17:42:16
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have you tried sending them a Reaper file that you have checked instead of the midi file that they import?
You may have to go to Cockos' forum and start a thread and ask there. Maybe there is some default they have set you don't or visa versa.
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dubdisciple
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RE: Sonar vs Reaper
2014/11/04 18:02:28
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Since it works fine on yours it may just be a matter of plugins.
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Living Room Rocker
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RE: Sonar vs Reaper
2014/11/04 20:06:24
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This sounds like a sample/bit rate mismatch, mentioned by Mr/s. Edwards (dubdisciple), to me.
Kind regards,
Living Room Rocker
Kind regards, Living Room Rocker
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bapu
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RE: Sonar vs Reaper
2014/11/04 20:48:09
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Living Room Rocker
This sounds like a sample/bit rate mismatch, mentioned by Mr/s. Edwards (dubdisciple), to me.
Kind regards,
Living Room Rocker
MIDI can have sample/bit rate mismatch? Well that's the derndest thang Ah evah herd.
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John
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RE: Sonar vs Reaper
2014/11/04 20:54:02
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I have used MIDI files from Sonar and Pro Audio with Logic and Cubase. Though I have Reaper I have never done much with it. (I own a license) But I suspect that it could be any one of a number of things. First is the tempo the same? Then as mentioned is the sample rate the same? Also Sonar can adjust its tick resolution I don't know what that is with Reaper or if it can be adjusted. That is something I would look at. Plus look at the MIDI in Reaper's PRV and see if it looks right.
Now as I started I have used MIDI files between those named DAWs and have never had a problem in one or the other sounding any different from Sonar or for that matter Pro Audio.
BTW as an aside, of all the DAWs that were mentioned above only Sonar can load a MIDI file as a native file format. One does not have to import it in Sonar. This alone can have interesting results if it is imported into a project with its parameters way off.
The short answer, to my knowledge it isn't a Sonar problem. Cakewalk the grandfather to Sonar was a MIDI sequencer.
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peter434
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RE: Sonar vs Reaper
2014/11/05 12:46:05
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"Cakewalk the grandfather to Sonar was a MIDI sequencer."
Maybe for the sequencer function, and I find that Sonar in general is very good for working with ! But, damn, it is not very reliable when starting working with vsti and midi environment !!!! By cons, no problem when recording audio and managing audiotracks.
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John
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RE: Sonar vs Reaper
2014/11/05 17:02:43
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I just did a song using all soft synths. I have been doing this for awhile now. In the past I relied on hardware synths. I can't tell a difference with VSTis vs hardware as far as stability is concerned. If a VSTi is causing instability its most likely not Sonar's fault.
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stevec
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RE: Sonar vs Reaper
2014/11/05 18:34:28
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I don't think I've completed a project without VSTi's since, well, geez... I'm not even sure how many years! CW synths, Komplete, XLN, Sonivox, loads of freebies, etc., they all work well here!
SteveC https://soundcloud.com/steve-cocchi http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163 SONAR Platinum x64, Intel Q9300 (2.5Ghz), Asus P5N-D, Win7 x64 SP1, 8GB RAM, 1TB internal + ESATA + USB Backup HDDs, ATI Radeon HD5450 1GB RAM + dual ViewSonic VA2431wm Monitors; Focusrite 18i6 (ASIO); Komplete 9, Melodyne Studio 4, Ozone 7 Advanced, Rapture Pro, GPO5, Valhalla Plate, MJUC comp, MDynamic EQ, lots of other freebie VST plugins, synths and Kontakt libraries
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SuperG
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RE: Sonar vs Reaper
2014/11/05 21:13:37
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No issues with VSTi's here. The reason I use Sonar is because it is *the* 'swiss army knife' of midi editors. Imagine you decide to edit a midi produced on an an arranger and decide to run it through Sonar - using Garritan libraries. You're going to need to convert (for some instruments) all the modulation control codes into aftertouch codes if you want it to both have the correct volume, as well as correct tremolo articulation. In Sonar, you can do this with just a couple of clicks.
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tlw
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RE: Sonar vs Reaper
2014/11/06 00:47:22
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At the risk of asking the obvious, are you all using the same drum VSTi/samples? If not, that could explain quite a bit.
Also check that the MIDI ticks per beat are set the same in all the DAWs.
I sometimes collaborate with a couple of guys who use Logic and as we live a long way apart we email each other MIDI files regularly, particularly drums. Never had a problem in either Sonar or Logic with the MIDI output of either DAW. Or with Cubase come to that.
Sonar is very, very (very) unlikely to be adding in stuff in an exported file or a MIDI track that's been dragged onto the desktop that isn't in the track when it's in Sonar. If their are any glitches, odd repeated notes, whatever, they will show up in Sonar's MIDI event editor. It could be that you've created one note and accidentally placed a longer one over it (or vice versa). This can be difficult to spot in the piano roll view because the shorter note can be covered by the graphic for the longer one. To check either use the event editor or just drag one of the offending notes out of thenway and see if there's another lurking hidden beneath it.
As suggested, the easiest answer might be to simply bounce the MIDi to audio in Sonar then give them copies of the audio.
Sonar Platinum 64bit, Windows 8.1 Pro 64bit, I7 3770K Ivybridge, 16GB Ram, Gigabyte Z77-D3H m/board, ATI 7750 graphics+ 1GB RAM, 2xIntel 520 series 220GB SSDs, 1 TB Samsung F3 + 1 TB WD HDDs, Seasonic fanless 460W psu, RME Fireface UFX, Focusrite Octopre. Assorted real synths, guitars, mandolins, diatonic accordions, percussion, fx and other stuff.
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R.F.L
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RE: Sonar vs Reaper
2014/11/08 14:43:09
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We both use the same drums, Toontrack´s EZ Drummer with the same original soundpack, does not seem to make a difference.
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Dave Modisette
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RE: Sonar vs Reaper
2014/11/08 21:20:14
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Are there a any sort of velocity offsets that may be in play in their Reaper setup? That will cause ghost strokes to sound like hits.
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jih64 
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RE: Sonar vs Reaper
2014/11/08 22:02:55
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I just done a test with a drum track from a project in X3e Producer, it was for another reason but anyway, just dragged the midi track from X3 to the desktop, then imported it into Reaper, no problems whatsoever, everything is fine.
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johnkeel
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RE: Sonar vs Reaper
2014/11/09 14:52:10
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Just finished recording an album where the drums and guitars where captured and composed using Reaper, the Keyboards wrote and recorded using Sonar, the mixing is Cubase.
Some of us use Desktop Windows 7, other use Laptop with Windows 8.1 and others Macs...
Not a problem transferring files between machines, either midi or wav.
One thing i notice is, everyone who was not using SONAR actually got their antenas up for it, the drummer even converted :P
My Personal Website | My Band - SULLEN
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BJN
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RE: Sonar vs Reaper
2016/12/19 17:45:06
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I signed up with Reaper years ago after hearing some of the hype how it was on par with major DAWs. I tried it several times,I couldn't make it work.
When my main music PC died about a year ago my older PC had Reaper on it and I started to try to use it, mainly as some band mates jumped to Reaper from Protools and I was intrigued.
It wasn't until I watched the series called Reaper Explained by Kenny Gioia that I realized how powerful reaper was function wise and how user definable it is. And it differs here the most to Sonar. Sonar is easier to do some advanced using if you need to. Reaper is not a default set up to work as well as Sonar and requires lots of menu to get familiar with but you can learn these and the tutorials on line help. Not as good as the Protools ones. Man no wonder people use PTs! It is about as hard as Reaper to use but all the online info mean you can learn it.
I got my new i7 PC and using the old drive got back into X2. It looks good and is familiar but I miss the mute options in reaper the most. It feels a little constrained too in that you can only do things the way Sonar wants you to do things which is mostly fine as I don't do much in either.
Another series has come available called Reaper Mainia by Kenny Gioia.
I really like his style of teaching and some of the features really open up the possibilities in any DAW.
It is nice to get back to the look and feel of Sonar and after the experience I have learned, looking at how to better use X2 and only have days left to capitalize on the lifetimes promo for platinum! C'mon, Chrissy bonuses!
------------------------------------------------------- Magic: when you feel inspired to create which in turn inspires more creation. And the corollary: if magic happens inspiration might flog it to death with numerous retakes. Bart Nettle
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BobF
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RE: Sonar vs Reaper
2016/12/19 19:53:44
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Render your drums to audio for them.
Bob -- Angels are crying because truth has died ...Illegitimi non carborundum --Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64 Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U
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BobF
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RE: Sonar vs Reaper
2016/12/19 19:54:09
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BTW, Reaper is a very cool DAW.
Bob -- Angels are crying because truth has died ...Illegitimi non carborundum --Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64 Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U
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JohnKenn
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RE: Sonar vs Reaper
2016/12/19 22:37:21
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Yes, a very cool DAW.
My opinion only...
Workflow and mindset are so different. You come from years of Sonar familiarity, open Reaper. Nothing fits, alien landscape. Allah, those renegades don't even have a defined midi vs audio track. How can you proceed without this carved in stone paradigm.
Nothing works like in Sonar. Case closed. Plus the $60 price tag is already suspect.
Each DAW has hi and lo points. When firing up keyboards, the beauty of Reaper is to drag and drop multiple vst or vsti instruments in a chain. Slam together several synths on the same channel. I know that you can do the same in a more crippled way in Sonar. Create multiple tracks, clone multiple midi files once they are right. Save the template for future use so you don't have to go through the work again.
From my experience, with audio input, meaning vocals or a direct guitar, there is no advantage of one over the other. Both do the job. Chaining effects is equally efficient.
Handling of midi synths is a major departure between the two softwares. Reaper wins hands down. Only request is to actually engage and evaluate the differential before flaming me to the brimstone pit.
John
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bapu
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RE: Sonar vs Reaper
2016/12/20 18:37:57
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I always thought Reaper's idea that a track is ANYTHING you want it to be was pretty cool.
I just never wrapped my head around it in a practical sense. Maybe if I really sat with the product for 100 hours or so I'd have a handle on it.
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