Helpful ReplyRapture puzzles

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gswitz
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2014/01/18 08:57:16 (permalink)

Rapture puzzles

Firstly, I use synths but not all the time and usually with a  keyboard.
 
I do have a guitar pedal synth (Roland GR-20)
http://www.rolandus.com/products/details/592
 
I've been playing this morning using the pedal and recording the midi out of it to two separate midi tracks routed to two separate synths (along with the guitar direct and the two audio outs of the GR-20.
 
Track 1+2 are the GR-20 Audio Outs.
Track 3 is the guitar direct with Craig Anderton's new FX Chain on it (having fun with that btw).
Track 4+5 are midi track and audio out for Z3ta+2 (a common toy for me).
Track 6+7 are midi track and audio out for Rapture.
 
I've discovered that the expression pedal for the GR20 and the glide stomp pedal thing have an effect on Rapture (which I've not noticed before). The Glide has no effect on other Synths. It doesn't appear to impact Zeta for example but it does alter the pitch of Rapture.
 
Also, when I pull back the expression pedal on the GR20, the volume of the rapture track fades out, but the volume of the Zeta Track is not impacted.
 
I've been poking around in Rapture hunting for a parameter change as I move the expression pedal but I can't find one. It isn't bound to the volume fader or anything. I do sometimes use the expression pedal on my GR-20 to control things in Amp Sims etc, but it isn't currently bound to anything. I did a Clear Midi Learn on the Act Controller I use with it.
 
Anyway, I thought I'd post. Basically, I'm getting differing behaviors I can't explain.

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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    gswitz
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    Re: Rapture puzzles 2014/01/18 09:19:47 (permalink)
    I guess I want to add that I think it's cool and I want to know more.
     
    For example, in the GR-20, I can define the interval for the pitch glide. Then when I step on the Glide button, the pitch raises or lowers that interval while the guitar pitch remains constant. Can I define the interval in Rapture too? or does it follow whatever the interval is for the current synth in the GR-20?
     
     

    StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
    I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
    #2
    gswitz
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    Re: Rapture puzzles 2014/01/18 10:02:07 (permalink)
    OMG I love my guitar!!
     
    Ok, The Glide also works with the Z3ta+2. I can't really tell if hold works, but I'm guessing that it does. It must be the GR-20 altering the midi out when I step on those pedals.
     
    I did find that when I change banks that Rapture stops working. I close the project and re-open and Rapture works again. Not sure why this is. There must be some kinda interruption... ?
     
    With Z3ta, changing banks actually changes the current patch. Now that's awesome!

    StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
    I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
    #3
    gswitz
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    Re: Rapture puzzles 2014/01/18 14:47:32 (permalink)
    I'm starting to think the Rapture thing is a bug. Resetting the Audio Engine and Midi and Audio doesn't get Rapture to work again.
     
    Once more, kicking the pedal to change the bank on my GR20 makes Rapture stop working. The only thing I've found that gets it working again is closing and re-opening Sonar. At least so far.
     
    Not sure what I'm doing wrong. Rapture is the only Synth I'm having the problem with.

    StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
    I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
    #4
    b rock
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    Re: Rapture puzzles 2014/01/19 18:25:37 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby gswitz 2014/05/31 20:39:47
    I've been poking around in Rapture hunting for a parameter change as I move the expression pedal but I can't find one. It isn't bound to the volume fader or anything. I do sometimes use the expression pedal on my GR-20 to control things in Amp Sims etc, but it isn't currently bound to anything. I did a Clear Midi Learn on the Act Controller I use with it.

     
    Rapture has a handful of 'hardwired' paths from MIDI CC messages to its parameters.  Volume [CC7] and Expression [CC11] are two of them.
     
    Can I define the interval in Rapture too? or does it follow whatever the interval is for the current synth in the GR-20?

     
    The GR-20 Glide is sending pitch bend messages.  Match the interval setting you have in the GR (semitone, fifth, octave) to Rapture's Bend Dn/Up parameters (upper-left).  Rapture's default is a two semitones each way.  Use 5 for a fourth, 7 for a fifth, 12 for an octave, etc.  This will also limit how far Rapture will go when you bend strings with your fingers or whammy bar.
     
    The Glide also works with the Z3ta+2. I can't really tell if hold works, but I'm guessing that it does. It must be the GR-20 altering the midi out when I step on those pedals.

     
    A pitchbend message is usually passed on to the synth no matter what (there are exceptions).  CC64 is the standard sustain switch MIDI message.  This is another one 'hardwired' in Rapture (although it can be switched off on the GUI).  z3ta+2 is a little different.  Most times you need to specifically define what you want a MIDI message to control in the Modulation Matrix.
    #5
    gswitz
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    Re: Rapture puzzles 2014/01/19 18:58:35 (permalink)
    b-rock,
     
    Thank you so much for the great answers.
     
    Do you have any thoughts about why changing patches on the GR20 makes it so that Rapture goes silent?
     
    As I mentioned, changing patches on the GR20 actually also changes patches in X3ta+2, which is sorta cool.
     
    I suppose the flip side is, is there a way to prevent Z3ta+2 from changing patches other than temporarily stopping midi to the channel?
     
     I suppose one way to answer the question is to find out the midi message sent when I hit the patch change buttons and to filter out those messages. It would be cool if I could use those pedals to turn on and off stop boxes in TH2. I've used the expression pedal for a while now, but I haven't figured out a way to get the pedals to work.

    StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
    I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
    #6
    b rock
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    Re: Rapture puzzles 2014/01/19 19:54:30 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby gswitz 2014/05/31 20:39:34
    Do you have any thoughts about why changing patches on the GR20 makes it so that Rapture goes silent?

     
    It's the CC0 message (bank change).  Apparently, that gets sent along with the Program Change messages.  Rapture doesn't support program changes, and it freaks out when it sees a CC0.  Something internal; I never did get a handle on exactly why that happens.  NRPN and RPN messages also put you in uncharted territory.
     
    I suppose the flip side is, is there a way to prevent Z3ta+2 from changing patches other than temporarily stopping midi to the channel?

     
    I'll have to think about that one.  Both synths receive Omni / All Channels.  So it isn't like you can switch z3ta+2 to an 'unused' MIDI channel.  There are ways to convert / block MIDI messages, but I'm trying to think of a way in Sonar without using external hardware / software.  MIDI FX or event filtering, perhaps?
     
    ----------------------------------------------
     
    One very cool thing that you haven't mentioned in the reported Envelope Follower capability (I don't have a GR-20; just the ancient GR-1).  I'd be all over that one.  It looks like it will transmit a CC18 MIDI message value (under certain conditions) that varys according to guitar amplitude.  A versatile feature just aching to be tapped.  Say, cutoff frequency of a resonant filter?  Technique-controllable synth 'envelopes'?
     
    I think if you look at page 29 of the GR-20 manual (and also the MIDI Implementation Chart towards the back), you'll find a lot of the background information that you'll need for some deeper experimentation.
    #7
    gswitz
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    Re: Rapture puzzles 2014/01/19 20:35:18 (permalink)
    I'll look into this.
     
    Thanks for all the tips!!

    StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
    I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
    #8
    gswitz
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    Re: Rapture puzzles 2014/05/31 12:33:58 (permalink)
    http://forum.cakewalk.com/GR20-decay-envelope-controlling-synth-parameters-in-Sonar-m3046149.aspx#3046149
     
    I posted a new thread here with a video of me using B Rock's suggestion at the end of post #7.

    StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
    I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
    #9
    chuckebaby
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    Re: Rapture puzzles 2014/05/31 20:33:30 (permalink)
    B  Rock is like a Midi genius ..lol
     
    when I researched how to edit SFZ files, I lived on some of his posts.
    glad to see you still hanging around here B-Roc.
     
    perfect example of some of things you leave in this forum help people years later.
    it was you who taught me about hi hat SFZ files and how to group.
    and here you are helping another good guy (Gswitz)
     
    thank you
     
    Chuck

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    #10
    gswitz
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    Re: Rapture puzzles 2014/05/31 20:43:10 (permalink)
    Yes, THANK YOU!

    StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
    I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
    #11
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