ORIGINAL: sambasevam
the only downside to reaper is...

Well the downside for me is that whenever I try to insert a plug-in while it's playing it crashes the program and produces a goddam awful noise. Sorry, but goodbye and good night on this one!

Geoff

Reaper seems light years away from being any threat to any of the major DAWs.

This reminds me of when Traction came out and everyone thought *that* was going to be the DAW killer, same with Orion, Live, and any of the other up-and-coming apps.

Since he was able to write his DAW from scratch, he intelligently took alot of Sonars core routing features and added them initially to his program, which of course, is the major upside to starting later, learning from other peoples mistakes, and also implementing other peoples ideas immediately.

The problem is that developing software does not follow a linear timeline/graph over time. As the program becomes more complex, the time it takes to add features while maintaining backwards compatibility becomes exponential in nature. While I have no doubt reaper will become 80% of what the major DAWs are rather quickly, thats not a big deal, the devil is in that last 20%.

That said, I"m def keeping an eye on this, in 4-5 years this looks like it could def be a contender.

ORIGINAL: three_eyed_otter

it IS beta software glazfolk ;)

... To think or purport that Reaper is an inferior product to SONAR is juvenile and arrogant.

have a good one
3Eo

i think you're playing out where you believe Reaper will eventually be rather than where it
is now. there is great potential, no-doubt.

My sentiments exactly. There is the risk that it will never make it that far before the developer moves on to other projects, too. How free is free, then?

ORIGINAL: jmarkham

i think you're playing out where you believe Reaper will eventually be rather than where it
is now. there is great potential, no-doubt.

ORIGINAL: three_eyed_otter

i think you're playing out where you believe Reaper will eventually be rather than where it
is now.

Apparently we don't understand the same english when it comes to reading spec sheets. I have P5v2 and P5v2 can do things that SONAR 5.2whatever can't do. If you were to strip both products (SONAR & Reaper) of the extra fluff you would find that they are very competitive and Reaper is growing much faster than SONAR ever has. The bottom line is Reaper is nowhere inferior as some SONAR users seem to want it to be.

have a good one
3Eo

spec sheets are a superlative form of English ;-) ... i understand and appreciate your enthusiasm for
Reaper, honestly. it's a remarkable undertaking by a true free radical. however, if one has to diminish
(or "strip") the features of one product or imagine where the development of another is headed, this
doesn't make for a reasonable comparison to me. i readily admit i'm being a curmudgeon here .. but for
those of us who lived through the dot-com software boom-bust .. this is a pattern i've seen before ...
very motivated small team .. a vision .. promising prototype and then blammo! bought or off to the next thing.
jeff

I think the comparisons to Live & Traction are very apt. The-sky-is-falling/second-coming hype that happened on the internet when each of the products began to be rolled out was pretty loud. But as they sought to move beyond their early user base of excited early adopters life has gotten more tricky. It's a big, ever-shifting music technology world out there, with a lot of users needing different things; what some users are able to forgive, others absolutely are not; one user's bloat is another user's must have.

Yea for Reaper! But the truth of the matter, move beyond those of us who frequent and post enthusiastically on message boards, most users don't want to keep re-inventing the wheel. Every time some user of another music tool tries to sell me on their product, I just smile and say, that's great but I've already learned Sonar, I'd rather spend my time making music. And denizens of message boards probably don't even make up a fraction of Sonar's actual user base; there are licensing partnerships, technology agreements, pro-market support. Not that I am doing anything more than speculating, but Cake's revenue stream is probably deeper more varied than however many thousands of us are posting and reading here.

My guess, considering what happened to WinAmp (and you'll recall there was a major stumble in the WinAmp code when they went to v3, code they eventually dumped in favor of the original), this will be a viable alternative for entry to mid-level musos but to stay to truly viable program there are just too many corporate property rights for just one team of coders and a lot of excited users to navigate. Besides, the number of people who want to record multi-steam audio and download obscure VSTi/VSTs is most likely significantly smaller than those who want to play music/video on their home PC.

It's very cool that the WinAmp guy is developing a music production software. But if he wanted to be truly revolutionary he'd make it open source/GNU and release it into the wild. That, I think, would strike more fear into the audio software market.

You can just right-click on the plugin name and choose to float the window...?

ORIGINAL: Sonifferous

Reaper seems light years away from being any threat to any of the major DAWs.

This reminds me of when Traction came out and everyone thought *that* was going to be the DAW killer, same with Orion, Live, and any of the other up-and-coming apps.

Since he was able to write his DAW from scratch, he intelligently took alot of Sonars core routing features and added them initially to his program, which of course, is the major upside to starting later, learning from other peoples mistakes, and also implementing other peoples ideas immediately.

The problem is that developing software does not follow a linear timeline/graph over time. As the program becomes more complex, the time it takes to add features while maintaining backwards compatibility becomes exponential in nature. While I have no doubt reaper will become 80% of what the major DAWs are rather quickly, thats not a big deal, the devil is in that last 20%.

That said, I"m def keeping an eye on this, in 4-5 years this looks like it could def be a contender.

This is just silly-talk

While looking for the new daw to replace Vegas, many of us contended that without mouse wheel zoom, sonar was just too slow to use in front of a customer.

But many saw beyond that and did just fine with sonar, the slower editing was probably made up for in some way by some of Sonar's other features

But to suggest reaper isnt useable or a contender, not just now, but for the last two months (half of its existence) is just silly talk

It FLIES as an editor and its routing allows stuff that I thought I had to give up when I left the hardware world years ago

I can't jump ship quite yet. As good as the audio-routing is, the midi-routing aint quite there yet. Being able to have 3 separate midi tracks all set to one midi ch. input but outputing on 3 separate channels to 3 instruments in one instance of Kontakt 2 is about the only thing it doesn't currently do (at least not that I can figure out) that I can't live without. If this thing has really only been around for 4 months, I can't wait to see what it's like 4 months from now.

ORIGINAL: JTANK

All this heated talk made me go get REAPER.

It might be good some day. But for what I do, manual entry of MIDI notes one at a time with the mouse, REAPER doesn't cut it. SONAR is still the best choice for me - even though I much prefer SONAR 2.2's interface over 5.

If you were king for a day, how would you like to see note entry handled? How did it do it in sonar 2.2 ?

Hmm. So it does.

very interesting responses.

just remember, its easy to see through certain ones ;)

anyhow, just a question, how does SONAR handle time signature changes and tempo changes....

does it restretch material or just play them faster, how does it deal with loops, etc....

Hi, Jason.

About this thread:

I don't mind people talking about competitive products on our forums. Obviously it happens all the time here. But this thread is turning into discussing detailed feature wish lists for Reaper. Would you all mind taking this elsewhere? I'd appreciate that.

By the way, I started Cakewalk as one guy with $4,000 of friends and family financing. I wrote the code, I packed boxes, I did tech support on the phone. I somehow sold enough to keep going, and it slowly grew over the years. I enjoyed those early days when it was just me writing the code. So I think I understand what you're doing, and why, because I did it all myself almost 20 years ago. It's a lot of fun, and I wish you luck pursuing it as long as it's still fun for you.

Again good luck, and I'll look forward to reading more of your thoughts ... elsewhere. :-)

Thanks.

Cheers,

Greg Hendershott
Founder & CEO
Cakewalk

Agreed.

All the fuss is really more of the same. This is what happened when each of the following came out:

+ Live
+ FruityLoops
+ Orion
+ NTrack Studio
+ Tracktion
+ Reaper
+ Reason

I think they're all great and they'll all find their user-base. In the end you use what you like, which is why many of us are here.

I will say, though, regarding FX Chains:

SONAR5 actually addresses this rather nicely with the Track Template feature.

Actually, the templates are kind of a pain for basic fx chains. If you already have a project and you want to add a series of effects, you need to deal with the import filter and all that stuff. I'd much prefer fx chain presets that are independent, as you often decide on your effects AFTER you already have your tracks.

ORIGINAL: Greg Hendershott [Cakewalk]

Hi, Jason.

About this thread:

I don't mind people talking about competitive products on our forums. Obviously it happens all the time here. But this thread is turning into discussing detailed feature wish lists for Reaper. Would you all mind taking this elsewhere? I'd appreciate that.

By the way, I started Cakewalk as one guy with $4,000 of friends and family financing. I wrote the code, I packed boxes, I did tech support on the phone. I somehow sold enough to keep going, and it slowly grew over the years. I enjoyed those early days when it was just me writing the code. So I think I understand what you're doing, and why, because I did it all myself almost 20 years ago. It's a lot of fun, and I wish you luck pursuing it as long as it's still fun for you.

Again good luck, and I'll look forward to reading more of your thoughts ... elsewhere. :-)

Thanks.

Cheers,

Greg Hendershott
Founder & CEO
Cakewalk

Sorry from here as well

We appreciate your work....all the way back in time to my old Intel 486 :)