Helpful ReplyRematrix (full) when using automation on wet control export audio freezes

Author
cw4davo
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 10
  • Joined: 2015/01/31 01:01:33
  • Status: offline
2016/01/15 10:41:03 (permalink)

Rematrix (full) when using automation on wet control export audio freezes

So...
I have the latest version of Sonar Platinum Producer and the current version of Re-Matrix and I love the combination; until today.
My bass player made a request to dial the reverb in and out at certain points in the mix. I said I'll have that for you in a few minutes.
I got the mix revised per his wishes using automation to control the wet level in RM and it sounds great and as expected.
When I went to export the audio to send him the rough mix, Sonar stops processing audio at the point the RM wet controls come in to play. I tried powering off/on the computer and tried both .flac and .wav formats in the export. The result is the same: CW freezes and never comes back - I left it in that state for 90 minutes with no recovery. The only option is to kill the program via windows. Therefore, I have no crash/debug file to provide.
I confirmed I could do an audio export from the same project without RM Wet automation.
 
Please advise resolution of this problem - I have a stuck bit in the stream somewhere.
I may appear to be new here but I have had every version of Sonar Producer since X1 and have produced hours of music with these great tools.
Cheers, Dave
#1
Bristol_Jonesey
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 16775
  • Joined: 2007/10/08 15:41:17
  • Location: Bristol, UK
  • Status: offline
Re: Rematrix (full) when using automation on wet control export audio freezes 2016/01/15 11:24:32 (permalink)
Welcome to the forum!
 
I would suggest trying it again on a very simple project with just one audio track and one Fx bus for your reverb. Try automating it & export again.

CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughout
Custom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
#2
dcumpian
Max Output Level: -34 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 4124
  • Joined: 2005/11/03 15:50:51
  • Status: offline
Re: Rematrix (full) when using automation on wet control export audio freezes 2016/01/15 11:32:12 (permalink)
Also, try different rendering settings, like Enabling/Disabling 64bit Processing and/or Fast Bounce.
 
Regards,
Dan

Mixing is all about control.
 
My music:
http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.    
#3
msorrels
Max Output Level: -70 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1025
  • Joined: 2003/11/08 02:04:59
  • Location: Pittsburgh, PA
  • Status: offline
Re: Rematrix (full) when using automation on wet control export audio freezes 2016/01/15 12:51:26 (permalink)
I was able to reproduce this with the smallest possible project.  Added a tiny WAV to a blank project, added full ReMatrix, created a track animation on the Wet level, animated it.  Plays just fine but exporting hangs Sonar.  Haven't tried all the various export combinations (just Fast Bounce and no 64-bit processing).
 
You might be able to try bouncing the track and muteing the original before exporting.  It's not worth it to me to re-setup the test though (should have saved the project before I did the export).  I attached to the hung Sonar with a debugger but didn't see anything obvious all the threads where busy doing their nothing and making no progress on the export.
 
I'm so tried of Sonar animation not working right.  Spent a bunch of time last week with volume animation becoming disconnected from the track/bus and requires a project reload to start working, a bug that's been around since Sonar 6.

-Matt
 
#4
stxx
Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 406
  • Joined: 2010/01/31 17:32:02
  • Status: offline
Re: Rematrix (full) when using automation on wet control export audio freezes 2016/01/15 12:52:59 (permalink)
Tried bouncing (fast or audible)  to a track first then exporting the finished track?  Might at least be a workaround

Sonar Platinum, RME UFX, UAD 2, Waves, Soundtoys, Fronteir Alphatrack, X-Touch as Contl Srfc,  , Console 1, Sweetwater Creation Station Quad Core Win 8.1, Mackie 824, KRK RP5, AKG 240 MKII, Samson C-Control, Sennheiser, Blue,  AKG, RODE,  UA, Grace, Focusrite, Audient, Midas, ART
 
Song Portfolio:
https://soundcloud.com/allen-lind/sets/oth-short
#5
dcumpian
Max Output Level: -34 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 4124
  • Joined: 2005/11/03 15:50:51
  • Status: offline
Re: Rematrix (full) when using automation on wet control export audio freezes 2016/01/15 14:52:48 (permalink)
While what you are doing should work, try putting Rematrix on a bus instead and automate the send level. It'll do the same thing and you won't be dependent on a buggy plugin. Automating busses is all Sonar-native.
 
Regards,
Dan
 

Mixing is all about control.
 
My music:
http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.    
#6
cw4davo
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 10
  • Joined: 2015/01/31 01:01:33
  • Status: offline
Re: Rematrix (full) when using automation on wet control export audio freezes 2016/01/15 20:30:56 (permalink)
Thanks all for weighing in!
 
Matt,
I'm glad someone else is seeing this -well misery loves company anyway.
Bouncing the track just might be the ticket...
 
Dan,
Re-routing to a bus and effectively muting the offending track's output to the sound capture process may work as well.
But -...- the beauty of having the RM controls do what I want is pure bliss, having to do a work around to capture the results is lame. I am not bashing the tools because these tools do wondrous things, one gets irked when a project gets stopped in mid-stream.
 
I'll try bouncing the track in one case then using a Bus in another test, and let y'all know the results in hopes this might help others as well.
 
Cheers, Dave
#7
msorrels
Max Output Level: -70 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1025
  • Joined: 2003/11/08 02:04:59
  • Location: Pittsburgh, PA
  • Status: offline
Re: Rematrix (full) when using automation on wet control export audio freezes 2016/01/15 20:39:32 (permalink)
I retried this (ReMatrix is my goto reverb these days) and you can't bounce it to a track or in any way export it without it hanging Sonar.  The only way I found to render it was to route the track to an Aux Track, arm that for record and play with record.  Then delete the original track completely (if you just mute it, it will still hang when exporting).
 
ReMatrix Solo in the ProChannel doesn't have this problem.  It's only the full plugin.
 

-Matt
 
#8
msorrels
Max Output Level: -70 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1025
  • Joined: 2003/11/08 02:04:59
  • Location: Pittsburgh, PA
  • Status: offline
Re: Rematrix (full) when using automation on wet control export audio freezes 2016/01/15 20:56:50 (permalink)
I did this exact same thing in Ableton Live Lite 9.5 which I got recently with a keyboard controller.  I have no real idea how to use Ableton, but managed to figure out how to do the animation.  ReMatrix hangs exporting from Ableton just like it does with Sonar.  I think this may be entirely ReMatrix.  Though I don't really know enough about Live to say for sure I didn't mess anything up (this was the first time I've ever export any audio out of it) but it hanged pretty much exactly like Sonar does.

-Matt
 
#9
cw4davo
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 10
  • Joined: 2015/01/31 01:01:33
  • Status: offline
Re: Rematrix (full) when using automation on wet control export audio freezes 2016/01/15 22:57:11 (permalink)
Matt, et al.
 
Here is what I tried and what ultimately worked for me:
1) Route the bass track to a bus thereby keeping the track's audio isolated from the sound export process = failed the same way - audio frozen.
2) Bounce to track = failed, the same way in the process of bouncing the track, the audio process froze.
3) Edited the RM wet automation control on the track to simplify to minimal # of nodes - went from dozens per transition to 2 (beginning and end) = Now I could bounce the track! I then muted the original channel and let the bounced track represent the bass: audio export failed, same way.
4) deleted offending original track = success, I have full audio export of the 7 tracks! I probably could have just removed the automation envelope but what the heck, I can always pop the original track in if needed...
 
Bottom line: there is a workaround although the time spent and the distraction is unfortunate.
 
Someone in this thread mentioned buggy plugins - perhaps that is true, maybe they don't quite follow the vst interface standard?
Matt's comments using Ableton seems to point in the direction of Rematrix as well. I will head over there and see what is going on with their automation interface - I agree with Matt: RM is my go-to reverb these days as well. I have mixes with 8 instances of RM all running different settings without breaking a sweat. Just don't call on automation - yet...
 
Thanks for listening and playing y'all.  Cheers, Dave
 
 
 
 
#10
Vastman
Max Output Level: -50 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2508
  • Joined: 2006/08/30 02:49:18
  • Location: Oakland, CA
  • Status: offline
Re: Rematrix (full) when using automation on wet control export audio freezes 2016/01/15 23:05:08 (permalink)
I hope one of you is gonna let the Rematrix people know/link to this thread so they can do a fix.  

Dana
We make the future... Climate Change Music
VastMaschine:SP4L/W10/i74930K/32GB/RME/CAD E100s; The Orchestra! NOVO!/Inspire/BohemianViolin&Cello, ARK1&2,/MinimalCapriccioMaximoSoto/OE1&2, Action&Emotive/Omni2/Tril/RMX/All OrangeTree/Falcon/APE Jugs/Alpha&Bravo/BFD3 & SD3
Gravity/DM307/AEON/DM/Damage/Diva/HZebra/Hive/Diversion/VC4/Serum/Alchemy/blablabla
Spitfire/8DIO/SL/KH/EW/NI; Shred1&2/AGF,G,M&T Torch&Res&Ren/GD-6; Ibanez SR1200&SR505
NOVAX FanFret Tele&Strat 
#11
msorrels
Max Output Level: -70 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1025
  • Joined: 2003/11/08 02:04:59
  • Location: Pittsburgh, PA
  • Status: offline
Re: Rematrix (full) when using automation on wet control export audio freezes 2016/01/15 23:29:14 (permalink)
One strange Sonar thing I noticed, once I had the animation on the track I deleted the ReMatrix plugin, but the animation line stayed on the track.  It was visible in the trackview, but I couldn't select it or delete it.  That seems like a Sonar bug.  I looked but couldn't find any way to remove that left over track animation on something that no longer existed.
 

-Matt
 
#12
AT
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 10654
  • Joined: 2004/01/09 10:42:46
  • Location: TeXaS
  • Status: offline
Re: Rematrix (full) when using automation on wet control export audio freezes 2016/01/16 00:21:08 (permalink)
REmatrix is a bit buggy w/ automation - I've tried the same thing w/ wet automation.  I just use a buss these days.

https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
http://www.bnoir-film.com/  
 
there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
#13
msorrels
Max Output Level: -70 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1025
  • Joined: 2003/11/08 02:04:59
  • Location: Pittsburgh, PA
  • Status: offline
Re: Rematrix (full) when using automation on wet control export audio freezes 2016/01/16 00:34:53 (permalink)
Vastman
I hope one of you is gonna let the Rematrix people know/link to this thread so they can do a fix.  


I filled out their super tiny tech support form with a link to this thread.

-Matt
 
#14
Bristol_Jonesey
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 16775
  • Joined: 2007/10/08 15:41:17
  • Location: Bristol, UK
  • Status: offline
Re: Rematrix (full) when using automation on wet control export audio freezes 2016/01/16 03:55:51 (permalink)
msorrels
One strange Sonar thing I noticed, once I had the animation on the track I deleted the ReMatrix plugin, but the animation line stayed on the track.  It was visible in the trackview, but I couldn't select it or delete it.  That seems like a Sonar bug.  I looked but couldn't find any way to remove that left over track animation on something that no longer existed.
 


If you hover over what is now a ghosted envelope it should read "orphaned" but you should still be able to shift-click it and delete it.
It works with all other envelopes

CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughout
Custom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
#15
msorrels
Max Output Level: -70 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1025
  • Joined: 2003/11/08 02:04:59
  • Location: Pittsburgh, PA
  • Status: offline
Re: Rematrix (full) when using automation on wet control export audio freezes 2016/01/16 05:04:12 (permalink)
Bristol_Jonesey
If you hover over what is now a ghosted envelope it should read "orphaned" but you should still be able to shift-click it and delete it.
It works with all other envelopes



That works.  I would have never imagine holding the shift key would let you select something that is disconnected  like that though.  The "orphaned" tooltip doesn't show unless you hold shift.  This does give you a way to reassign the automation to something else, so it's a feature I guess.  Still seems to me like it should clean up automation when the thing being automated is deleted though.

-Matt
 
#16
Bristol_Jonesey
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 16775
  • Joined: 2007/10/08 15:41:17
  • Location: Bristol, UK
  • Status: offline
Re: Rematrix (full) when using automation on wet control export audio freezes 2016/01/16 05:44:24 (permalink)
Holding down the Shift key allows you to select any envelope when you are not working explicitly with envelopes in Track View, as set by the Edit Filter

CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughout
Custom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
#17
Razorwit
Max Output Level: -66 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1235
  • Joined: 2003/11/05 18:39:32
  • Location: SLC, UT
  • Status: offline
Re: Rematrix (full) when using automation on wet control export audio freezes 2016/01/16 09:40:53 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby RSMCGUITAR 2016/01/18 12:28:05
Just a quick addition, I've been playing with this a bit and I got exports/bounces to work by disabling fast bounce. Looks like ReMatrix doesn't like fast bounce when automating. 
 
Dean

Intel Core i7; 32GB RAM; Win10 Pro x64;RME HDSPe MADI FX; Orion 32 and Lynx Aurora 16; Mics and other stuff...
#18
cw4davo
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 10
  • Joined: 2015/01/31 01:01:33
  • Status: offline
Re: Rematrix (full) when using automation on wet control export audio freezes 2016/01/17 20:40:36 (permalink)
Razorwit - FTW!!!
 
That worked for me as well, thank you.
Perhaps this will help others and maybe even help isolate the problem for our friends at Overloud.
My bassist will be pleased when he hears this mix!
 
Cheers, Dave
#19
msorrels
Max Output Level: -70 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1025
  • Joined: 2003/11/08 02:04:59
  • Location: Pittsburgh, PA
  • Status: offline
Re: Rematrix (full) when using automation on wet control export audio freezes 2016/01/20 04:16:12 (permalink)
Overloud sent me a note this morning saying they had reproduced this hang when using a fast bounce and would have an update out for it shortly.  I just checked their web site and they now have version 1.1.12 up.  The test I did with a simple wav file and an animated wet no longer hangs when doing a fast bounce with 1.1.12.  I'd recommend upgrading.
 
From the change log
1.1.11 -> 1.1.12
----------------

- Fixed an issue that prevented successful completion of offline/non-realtime bounce/export in some hosts

-Matt
 
#20
cw4davo
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 10
  • Joined: 2015/01/31 01:01:33
  • Status: offline
Re: Rematrix (full) when using automation on wet control export audio freezes 2016/01/24 12:26:35 (permalink)
Matt,
 
Thanks for following through on this! I have been away on my day job so I just saw your note. Time to update ReMatrix.
Cheers, Dave
#21
msorrels
Max Output Level: -70 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1025
  • Joined: 2003/11/08 02:04:59
  • Location: Pittsburgh, PA
  • Status: offline
Re: Rematrix (full) when using automation on wet control export audio freezes 2016/01/24 12:53:56 (permalink)
You do need to be careful, the Overloud installer will default to an odd directory for installing the VST.  If you have both the old version of REmatrix and the new version you may have problems.  See this thread:
 
http://forum.cakewalk.com/Projects-wont-open-after-recent-ReMatrix-update-m3356278.aspx
 
I'd find your copy of the full REmatrix and make sure the new install replaces it.

-Matt
 
#22
Jump to:
© 2025 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1