Look, if you have the engineering chops to turn out pro quality mixes, and master them yourself, it does not make all that much difference what DAW you are using for the most part. The issue raised by the OP was one that relates to moving your product to a "professional" collaborator/mix doctor or mastering expert. It may be quite true that many of the highly qualified people working in audio today are doing a lot of their work in a vacuum, and that they do not need the capability to share or open a full project in anything but their own favorite DAW.
 
It is also undoubtedly true that the days when song writers were using professional studios for making demos are coming to an end. The economics of both songwriting and studios, and the technical capability of inexpensive computer audio processing have changed dramatically. Since 2000 the number of professional song writers in Nashville has declined by 80%, for example, and the publishers who used to pay writers salaries and pick up the tab for demos are not the players that they once were.*
 
The ability of almost anyone to upload his music to the internet, regardless of the musical or technical quality, has dramatically increased the demand for affordable and easy to use DAW software. Many people who will never make a profit from their music now have access to quality processing that would have cost hundreds of thousands of dollars in the analog age. That is good news for Cakewalk sales, as it is for its competitors. Like it or not, many customers will choose another DAW that is less suitable to their needs just so they can say they have the "professional" software,  as they might buy a shoe that does not fit their foot because their favorite basketball star wears them.
 
Cakewalk is an excellent choice for the DIY composer/musician/recordist. Historically, it descended from a first rate sequencer that added audio capabilities, as compared to many of its competitors that added MIDI capability to a primarily audio application, and it remains strong in the MIDI/softsynth area. Cakewalk has made impressive efforts to broaden Sonar's appeal to a wide variety of musicians, or pander to the latest fads depending on your point of view.
 
Nonetheless, there clearly is a group who are going to find doing their work in Sonar inconvenient when they are trying to collaborate with someone using another DAW. The money cost of Sonar is negligible compared to the time cost of learning to use a DAW, and the time cost and technical limitations of modifying a Sonar project to move to and from another application is not insignificant. I personally do not see myself as quitting Sonar for a competitor, but I do not interact with "professionals" in the audio world. 
 
One issue to consider is that amateur collaborators may also need to standardize on one DAW. That could easily be Sonar, as there is certainly a large base of users out there, and there are very affordable versions available. But Sonar does not seem to have made major inroads into the academic music world. One does not see a lot of conservatories or music or recording programs in college building courses or labs/studios around Sonar. Many graduates of these programs, the very people who may be interested in collaboration, will have spent hundreds of hours learning to use another application. I suspect ProTools may be the academic favorite, but I do not have figures to prove it.
 
 
Many graduates will have purchased expensive software at affordable academic prices or as a "required text," for a course, which they continue to use for some time after graduation, and will likely upgrade that DAW.  Cakewalk could offer Sonar on a ridiculously low monthly academic rate, say free, and require proof of student eligibility yearly to keep the subscription current, offering upgrade pricing to graduates. That would have some appeal for cash strapped students. Unfortunately getting an associate adjunct professor of music at a college to spend hundreds of unpaid hours, that could better be spent tutoring undergraduates in skin flute techniques, learning a new DAW would probably not be easy. And it is faculty, not students, who need to be made happy in academia.
 
*http://copyright.gov/policy/musiclicensingstudy/copyright-and-the-music-marketplace.pdf
 
 

I hate Mac elitism because most of the people who are guilty of it have no idea what they're talking about. That said, Mac DOES handle midi and audio better. CoreAudio is a great protocol that support aggregate devices and provides sample accurate timing on the OS level. Sadly we're still stuck with ASIO (and MME!) on PC. Also, Windows has a really dumb 10 midi device limit which becomes really problematic if you switch ports or gear often. I have a Traktor controller, Maschine, an APC40, a Roland midi keyboard, a USB-midi cable, a Fast Track Pro audio/midi interface and sometimes I use a Behringer X32 or a FireFace 800 on location. In practice, I'm constantly uninstalling drivers and using a utility to delete their entries from the registry.

I hear that this is going to be fixed in Windows 10. But it will probably be a while before I'm running on that.

There is also, not anecdotally but generally, less "tweaking" to do on Mac. Which is why every singer/songwriter I know walks around with a Macbook and Garageband.

I would wager that the demographics of who has bought SONAR is split significantly different than the over use of "professional" implies, yet this seems to be thrown about rather cavalierly.

 Maybe it is true that Sonar isn't going to be the choice of the professionals, for the reasons mentioned above.  However, it doesn't necessarily need to be.
 
I think Sonar will do just fine being sold to people like me.  I'm a hobbyist, mainly recording covers currently.  I don't make money from whatever I put out.  I'm doing it purely for fun.  I was originally using Studio One Free, which I'll be honest I liked a lot.  However, the free version doesn't allow 3rd party plugins or VSTi's, and doesn't include any EQ.  Had the Producer version of Studio One been affordable or available on a monthly payment, I would have gone for that.  However I don't have a great deal of "disposable" cash, so Sonar's monthly membership really grabbed my attention.
 
I had tried Reaper, and although I like the way they do things, I didn't like the DAW much.  I found it crashed a lot, but that could possibly be my laptop.

I went for the Professional version of Sonar, and for just over £12 per month I get a hell of a lot for that.  Plus, if I want to I can stop paying after 12 months and the software is mine.  Or I can carry on paying the same price and upgrade to platinum.  So thanks to how they're doing things, Cakewalk have managed to get somebody to convert from another DAW.  I'm sure I'm not the only one.

kevmsmith81
 Maybe it is true that Sonar isn't going to be the choice of the professionals, for the reasons mentioned above.  However, it doesn't necessarily need to be. 
 

+1
If I were selling audio software, and was given the choice between being the only supplier of software to professionals who actually make their living doing music, as opposed to being the only supplier to people who either do not or who never expect to do so, I would certainly go for the wannabe/amateur market. If your only customer were the true professionals, you would have a hard time staying in business. 

SanderxpanderAlso, Windows has a really dumb 10 midi device limit which becomes really problematic if you switch ports or gear often.

That limit's already gone in Win8 I think.

Well... I used to make money regularly playing live until play live no more could I... so in that sense I am/was a "professional". I've mostly been focusing on studying digital recording since then but the goal is to be able to make money doing session work, create scores/songs for sale, add an audio element to my guit lesson stuff and... well anything else that might make me a few bucks. I haven't fully launched all this yet but I did recently make a modest amount doing some session stuff... and guess what? I used Sonar. I'll continue to use Sonar. I like Sonar.
 
Now I guess I fall more under "pro" musician than "pro" studio but those lines are starting to get a little blurry.
 
Point is... there isn't much that isn't "pro" about Sonar and the whole Mac discussion is a bit of a red herring (seriously I would have to question the quality of a "pro" studio that did not have at least one PC around... I mean, c'mon. That's silly.)
 
Sonar does certainly seem to be more of a musician's type of tool but part of that is its nice mixing environment.
 
Now tracking? Yeah, it does what it needs to but I do think in a lot of ways if I ever did have a sound room again I might use CuBase to record (but more likely Reaper because really... why pay more just to track but I did like Nuendo and CuBase looks nice so who knows... but that's all hypotheticals and pipe dreams at this point). Why? Just seems like a better workflow for multimic routing, dealing with boards, whatever and those style DAWs are a alittle cleaner to look at.
 
Once I'm mixing though... frack those boring, stale arse tools and frack their boring arse cumbersome workflows. I'll take those tracks and get into my little mixing cockpit that is Sonar. Even editing is a lot better in Sonar now (I was going to use something else for editing because of major issues I USED to have but have been resolved since X3).
 
Still I have not tested these other DAWs, or Sonar, in a live room scenario so it is quite possible Sonar will be perfectly fine and I could save myself some file shuffling.
 
Either way... this is all pedantic semantics and froo froo frivolities. Use what you like and I'll use what I like. DAW dogma, like all dogma, is pointless and freaking ridiculous.

Doktor Avalanche
Agreed, right now I perceive Cakewalk is doing exactly the right thing. Make sure the core code as reliable as possible, and throw in essential workflow improvements that aren't headliners when it comes to marketing the product. We've yet to see many improvements to half baked UI functionality like take lanes, staff view, drum maps (audiosnap?) but that will hopefully be the next stage once the core is solid. For me that's when you can call it a Pro product.
 
Once that is done then the flashy new features get introduced...
 
Maybe it's wishful thinking, but that's what I'm perceiving and hoping....

If to make major difference for somebody to choose Sonar, having ran other daws - it might not be enough.

Maybe do some improvement regarding exchanging projects with other daws would be a really good thing.
The OMF stuff take no midi - which means you loose an awful lot when half or more of projects are midi. A lot of extra fiddling.
 
There is this AATranslator: http://aatranslator.com.au/
 
But to/from Sonar is only OMF.
As I understand there is some SDK of some sort for Sonar - but have no idea what it incorporates.
 
If your friends/collaborators prefer something else, you can still select Sonar as your daw.
Even for professional use taking client that could happend then.
 
Somebody mentioned as I was having issues with Kontakt and import - NI bought code from an existing sample library converter(not so good, but anyway).
 
Cake could approach AAT guys with a proposition to at least import Cubase and some other stuff.
Cakewalk could even run a cloud collaboration service that incorporates this - you can upload Sonar projects and you can select to download in any other format. This for members of course, or even extra fees.

Beepster
I though the 10 MIDI device limit died with XP?
 
Or perhaps that was about the 10 slots getting filled up then not releasing when new devices were added and there is now only a 10 devices at ONCE limit... which could be kind of limiting in a large studio.
 
Might have to read up on that.
 

Nope. Windows will let you install a whole bunch but your software just doesn't find any beyond the first ten. Even dumber is that Windows sees the same device in a different port as a new device and starts installing the drivers all over again, creating new ports.

Doktor Avalanche
Agreed, right now I perceive Cakewalk is doing exactly the right thing. Make sure the core code as reliable as possible, and throw in essential workflow improvements that aren't headliners when it comes to marketing the product. We've yet to see many improvements to half baked UI functionality like take lanes, staff view, drum maps (audiosnap?) but that will hopefully be the next stage once the core is solid. For me that's when you can call it a Pro product.
 
Once that is done then the flashy new features get introduced...
 
Maybe it's wishful thinking, but that's what I'm perceiving and hoping....

 

lfm
If to make major difference for somebody to choose Sonar, having ran other daws - it might not be enough.

Maybe do some improvement regarding exchanging projects with other daws would be a really good thing.
The OMF stuff take no midi - which means you loose an awful lot when half or more of projects are midi. A lot of extra fiddling.
 
There is this AATranslator: http://aatranslator.com.au/
 
But to/from Sonar is only OMF.
As I understand there is some SDK of some sort for Sonar - but have no idea what it incorporates.
 
If your friends/collaborators prefer something else, you can still select Sonar as your daw.
Even for professional use taking client that could happend then.
 
Somebody mentioned as I was having issues with Kontakt and import - NI bought code from an existing sample library converter(not so good, but anyway).
 
Cake could approach AAT guys with a proposition to at least import Cubase and some other stuff.
Cakewalk could even run a cloud collaboration service that incorporates this - you can upload Sonar projects and you can select to download in any other format. This for members of course, or even extra fees.

Slightly missing my point. Nothing wrong with that suggestion (it's a good one), but that sort of thing would come under the final point that I wrote above.

In order to introduce big new features like this you've got to improve the core first and exisiting functionality first (or scrap it), otherwise if you introduce even more features which may end up delivered half baked, it just makes the product look worse. In order for Sonar to progress further it needs to put out the current fires out first (and stop fire fighting!). Every new feature has the potential to start a new fire, allow the fires to be more controlled (there are only so many fire fighters to put out fires).

Sanderxpander

Beepster
I though the 10 MIDI device limit died with XP?
 
Or perhaps that was about the 10 slots getting filled up then not releasing when new devices were added and there is now only a 10 devices at ONCE limit... which could be kind of limiting in a large studio.
 
Might have to read up on that.
 

Nope. Windows will let you install a whole bunch but your software just doesn't find any beyond the first ten. Even dumber is that Windows sees the same device in a different port as a new device and starts installing the drivers all over again, creating new ports.

That last part is why I try to use the same ports for the same device at all times (not move them around) but I thought even that had been resolved. I think John was the one telling me about all that but it was a long time ago so I may have misunderstood.
 
I've only got a few devices anyway (and as I said restrict their movement between ports on the system) but certainly something to watch out for if it is still an issue.
 
I do think MS does not necessary give a crap about us music folks as much as Apple to a certain extent (more business and graphics/video oriented) and we'd be a little screwed as far as hardware if it weren't for the hardcore PC gaming community (which seems to be the only reason ultra hi spec hardware gets made for PC). It still does not seem like that fact (which is actually me speculating so not treally a fact) makes dropping the coin on a Mac worth it to me. It MAY be a little more convenient to own a Mac in certain regards but to me there seems to be a lot "relinquishing all control to Apple" going on with that choice and I'm an inherently curious person anyway so the PC paradigm is just plain interesting.
 
Meh. As I said... whatever works, works.

Sanderxpander
Way easier to just use a Macbook with MainStage and a small interface.
Or a Surface Pro with Forte if you want to keep it small and Windows.


Edit: not sure if you're familiar with the Muse Receptor series?

I'm assuming that was in reply to my daydreaming about a stage box. I've already concocted some scenarios using laptops but to me there seems something inherently wrong about having such a device on stage. I am however used to having bottles, gear and stinky weirdos flying past my head (and into me) while playing so that likely has something to do with it. lol
 
I'll look into those devices/platforms though. Really at this point the experiment would be to get my guitar sims running through the board, mains and monitors effectively. I can no longer move or set up gear so just being able to bring my guit, a small gigbag with the computer stuff and my sorry butt may be the only way to get on stage again without paying roadies.
 
I miss playing live. I also miss the money I used to make playing live... even if it wasn't much (but it was sumthin').
 
Cheers.
 

I have a friend who uses a MacBook, MainStage and the built-in Logic ampsims/preset and a Fast Track Pro. I don't honestly like the sound but it does work and it could be a lot better if he knew what he was doing and used better ampsims. If that is basically all you're aiming for I would definitely opt for a laptop, it could even be a second-hand Mac, use your current interface and buy MainStage for 30 bucks. MainStage is pretty flexible in how you set up your patches and controllers. You could use any keyboard controller or pedal controller you might have to flick through your patches and affect things like gain, wah, etc..
Or even an iOS or Android RTP midi app to control stuff from your phone touch screen.

Kamikaze
 One day Kree fecked up a system issue, bug style. His manager called him up to find out what went wrong. He told him that it stemmed from someone in the office looking at porn. It wasn't true, but he knew his manager looked at porn. His manager congratulated him on finding the root of the issue, and nothing more was said

 

bapu
So I can look at porn if I get a Mac?

Dell's are optimal for porn:
 

I'm pretty sure Ableton LE would be enough for your needs.

Also, the point of PA and stage monitors is that they are SUPPOSED to be neutral, or at least not color even nearly as much as any guitar amp. Of course there may be crappy monitors or PA but hey, welcome to the world of the keyboard player. I do not think this would be a huge issue though it will take a little time to get used to it. An EQ on your main output bus might help for quick room adjustments. My keyboard has one.