Roland FA-101 hums in my monitors! it goes away when I interact with windows!

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homemusican9
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January 28, 10 9:08 PM (permalink)

Roland FA-101 hums in my monitors! it goes away when I interact with windows!

My Roland FA-101...brand new, hums(more like a very low squeal) when it is plugged in to my computer. It does not even have to be turned on. The sound goes away when I move windows around on my desktop and other interactions with my desktop like scrolling and clicking and such. Also, as soon as I disconect the firewire the sound disappears. What the heck could this be???
 
SyStem:
Win7 x64
AMD phenomII X4 3.4 quad
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SB0230 Audigy SB1394( my firewire connection)
Roland FA-101
KRK Rokit monitors
SONAR 6 PE
 
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    John
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    Re:Roland FA-101 hums in my monitors! it goes away when I interact with windows! January 28, 10 9:38 PM (permalink)
    You have a ground loop. Probably due to a bad connection somewhere in the cabling.

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    John
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    MurMan
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    Re:Roland FA-101 hums in my monitors! it goes away when I interact with windows! January 28, 10 9:53 PM (permalink)
    Make sure that you are using balanced cables (TRS) between your monitors and the FA-101. 

    Sonar 8PE & VS, Presonus Firestudio, VS-100, AlphaTrack, Nord Stage Compact, Roland Sonic Cell,  Axiom 49, dbx 386, Event TR-8's, Kawai 650, ...
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    CJaysMusic
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    Re:Roland FA-101 hums in my monitors! it goes away when I interact with windows! January 28, 10 9:57 PM (permalink)
    It goes away because soanr is out of focus when you go into windows. If you enable share drivers with other programs, the hum wont go away...
    The others have your answer. Bad cables, a ground, not using balanced/shielded cables could all be your problem.
    Try pluging into another wall wart on a different circuit and/or replace your cables with balanced cables
    Cj

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    nprime
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    Re:Roland FA-101 hums in my monitors! it goes away when I interact with windows! January 28, 10 9:59 PM (permalink)
    It is a good idea to plug the monitors and the interface into the same outlet, but it could also be a bad cable.

    Listen

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    homemusican9
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    Re:Roland FA-101 hums in my monitors! it goes away when I interact with windows! January 28, 10 10:43 PM (permalink)
    OK, I would think this initially as well, but I was using all of the same equipment and cables with a much less expensive(and sensative for that matter), Lexicon Omega audio interface with no noise at all. Please DONT tell me that I have a bad interface. I hope it is that the FA is more sophidticated and technical requireing more expensive and technical cables or something!!! I am not using blanced TRS, so I should?

    SyStem:
    Win7 x64
    AMD phenomII X4 3.4 quad
    4GBs DDR2 1066
    SB0230 Audigy SB1394( my firewire connection)
    Roland FA-101
    KRK Rokit monitors
    SONAR 6 PE
     
    #6
    MurMan
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    Re:Roland FA-101 hums in my monitors! it goes away when I interact with windows! January 28, 10 11:22 PM (permalink)
    homemusican9

    ... I am not using blanced TRS, so I should?
    Yes. 
     
    The purpose of balanced (as opposed to unbalanced) cables is to eliminate noise.  This noise can be 60 Hz hum from the power lines or digital noise from the video monitor or computer.  My guess based on your description is the noise is originating in your video monitor. 
     
    Keep in mind that sometimes eliminating this kind of noise takes several steps.  Going to balanced cables is the first and most effective step. 

    Sonar 8PE & VS, Presonus Firestudio, VS-100, AlphaTrack, Nord Stage Compact, Roland Sonic Cell,  Axiom 49, dbx 386, Event TR-8's, Kawai 650, ...
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    nprime
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    Re:Roland FA-101 hums in my monitors! it goes away when I interact with windows! January 29, 10 3:09 AM (permalink)
    I honestly don't think that using balanced cables will eliminate this problem, if it was the cables then the noise would not stop just because he changes the focus to windows or moves things around on his desktop. If the cables are picking up 60 Hz line noise it will not stop because of something he is doing with the computer. If the screen is on it is on, it should not matter what program he using, it would cause the interference all the time. However, trying the balanced is not an expensive experiment and I would agree that a balanced connection is the way to go whenever you can. It may do the trick, ground loops are weird and hard to trouble shoot.

    If there is a cable to be suspicious of it is the Firewire cable. Or perhaps the firwire connector on the FA or the computer.

    Did the Lexicon interface have a standard IEC power cable? Does the FA have a wall wart power supply?

    I'd like to hear the noise to know if it is indeed 60 Hz or something else entirely.
    post edited by nprime - January 29, 10 12:28 AM

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    #8
    eratu
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    Re:Roland FA-101 hums in my monitors! it goes away when I interact with windows! January 29, 10 10:04 AM (permalink)
    homemusican9


    I am not using blanced TRS, so I should?


    Ummm, yes. No matter what the problem really is, you should still run TRS. nprime could be right in his observations, but at least eliminate this weak link in your signal chain, then you won't have to wonder about this part as you hunt down the rest of your problem. All the other suggestions are good ones, but this one is a no brainer whether or not you have noise. Just my opinion of course.
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    CJaysMusic
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    Re:Roland FA-101 hums in my monitors! it goes away when I interact with windows! January 29, 10 10:31 AM (permalink)
    Get TRS cables and come back with your results. You need to have the correct cables. Otherwise, you could be running yourself in circles. # 1 rule in troubleshooting. Make sure you have the correct equipment to do the task at hand. As of right now, you do not have TRS cables. So i would stop everything and get some...
    Cj

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    wetdentist
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    Re:Roland FA-101 hums in my monitors! it goes away when I interact with windows! January 29, 10 11:17 AM (permalink)
    i may be totally wrong, but having a similar issue (a quiet squeal in Sonar 8.52 x64), i think it's a driver issue.  the sound goes away when i use a 32 bit program like Project 5.  at least the good thing for me is that this noise does not appear in the recordings!

    3.5 Ghz AMD 6-Core/16 gigs RAM, Roland Quad-Capture, Win 10, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Komplete 10, z3ta+, Z3TA+ 2, Rapture, Maschine 2.7 (MKI & Jam), Melodyne 4 Studio, Ozone 4, Jam Origin MIDI Guitar 2, Schecter Damien Elite, Fender Sonoran w/TronicalTune Plus installed, etc 
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    #11
    aj
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    Re:Roland FA-101 hums in my monitors! it goes away when I interact with windows! January 29, 10 1:17 PM (permalink)
    This is a common problem, particularly with buss-powered audio interfaces, both USB and firewire.

    What is happening is essentially that the internal circuitry of the FA-101 draws its power from the Firewire bus. Not only is this power rail already noisy from the internal computer operations, which impose spikes on it, the audio interface, itself digital, will also impose further noise on the power rail.

    Unfortunately this noise current has to return via the earth connection, and in so doing it introduces a voltage in that connection. This then appears as an audio signal.

    There are a number of ways to mitigate this problem.

    Firstly, use special balanced cables. You can make these yourself. The signal shield is not carried through and should be lifted at the interface end of the cable. This normally will resolve the problem

    Secondly, if the audio interface has a metal case, connect a stout cable - at least 2mm cross-section internal conductor - between the audio interface case and a ground point on the computer, such as the back panel. This provides an alternative, lower-resistance path for the power supply noise current and will often greatly reduce the audio noise.

    If the interface supports a non-buss powered mode (I don't think this is the case for the FA-101, unfortunately) then this is also a good solution. It eliminates the noise current in the firewire or USB cable.

    UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES should mains-level grounds be lifted. Apart from being dangerous, you run the risk of frying sensitive preamps when cables are plugged in. Using ground-lifted signal cables is, however, perfectly safe.


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    homemusican9
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    Re:Roland FA-101 hums in my monitors! it goes away when I interact with windows! January 30, 10 2:43 PM (permalink)
    Well, I think I am getting somewhere. I hooked up some headphones and it was completely silent at the highest decible levels. So, if Im not mistaken then that means that the software nor the interface are to blame, right? Also, I have ordered balanced TRS cables; I will report back when I receive and use them.
     
    I have recorded the sound for those who might be able to assess, I do not think it is the "run of the mill" 60hz hum. It sounds much higher in the spectrum. I dont know how to get the file posted. If someone could point me in the right direction on that one, that would be awesome.
     
    Thanks for all the time and knowledge guys!!!!

    SyStem:
    Win7 x64
    AMD phenomII X4 3.4 quad
    4GBs DDR2 1066
    SB0230 Audigy SB1394( my firewire connection)
    Roland FA-101
    KRK Rokit monitors
    SONAR 6 PE
     
    #13
    homemusican9
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    Re:Roland FA-101 hums in my monitors! it goes away when I interact with windows! January 30, 10 11:02 PM (permalink)
    This is really getting to me. This noise now only exists when I open a program that needs to use the fa-101 to make sound such as Win Media plyr, and sonar. It does not exist in the headphones and when nothing is open aaaahhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!

    SyStem:
    Win7 x64
    AMD phenomII X4 3.4 quad
    4GBs DDR2 1066
    SB0230 Audigy SB1394( my firewire connection)
    Roland FA-101
    KRK Rokit monitors
    SONAR 6 PE
     
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    MurMan
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    Re:Roland FA-101 hums in my monitors! it goes away when I interact with windows! February 04, 10 2:20 AM (permalink)
    homemusican9

    Well, I think I am getting somewhere. I hooked up some headphones and it was completely silent at the highest decible levels. So, if Im not mistaken then that means that the software nor the interface are to blame, right?
    It's hard to be 100% sure, but probably means that your interface is fine and that the problem is the connection between the interface and your monitors.  Balanced cables will probably take care of that.

    Sonar 8PE & VS, Presonus Firestudio, VS-100, AlphaTrack, Nord Stage Compact, Roland Sonic Cell,  Axiom 49, dbx 386, Event TR-8's, Kawai 650, ...
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    vinski
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    Re:Roland FA-101 hums in my monitors! it goes away when I interact with windows! February 04, 10 8:31 AM (permalink)
    I've just sorted this problem with my Edirol FA-66 by installing a new Texas Instruments chipset firewire PCI card on my PC.
    Check which chipset you're firewire host is in Control Panel>System>Hardware>Device Manager and under IEEE 1394 Bus host controllers.  If it's a VIA then I recommend you change as soon as you can.  Mine now works beautifully with no problems at all. 

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