BRuys
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SOLVED: Sonar Platinum will not run on Ryzen systems
So last night, I got through building a brand new Ryzen based system to use as my new DAW. System is Window 10 (x64) Anniversary edition with all current updates on a Ryzen 1800X, Asus Prime X370 Pro motherboard, and 32 GB of DDR4 2400 RAM. Everything works on the system as far as Windows and other apps go, but Sonar crashes out before even getting to the GUI. I was building a system for a co-worker today so thought I'd test on that - different motherboard, but same CPU and same issue. So this goes out as a warning to anyone thinking of building a new Ryzen-based DAW - currently it wont work. We may need to wait and see if this can be resolved before you take the leap. I will raise this with CW tech support to see what they think. Fortunately, I have my old working DAW, but it would be nice to use the new powerful system :) Bill.
post edited by BRuys - 2017/03/04 09:32:02
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35mm
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Re: WARNING: Sonar Platinum will not run on Ryzen systems
2017/03/03 05:09:32
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Thanks for the heads up. I was watching something about the new Ryzen today and thought, hmmm 
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mettelus
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Re: WARNING: Sonar Platinum will not run on Ryzen systems
2017/03/03 05:11:20
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Wow, thank you for the heads up. That was unexpected.
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KPerry
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Re: WARNING: Sonar Platinum will not run on Ryzen systems
2017/03/03 10:05:16
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Windows 7 x64 SP1 SONAR x86/x64 Intel Q6600/8GB MOTU UltraliteMk3 (USB/ASIO) Edirol PCR300
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dcumpian
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Re: WARNING: Sonar Platinum will not run on Ryzen systems
2017/03/03 13:27:30
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It may very well be fixable by an updated chipset driver. Most likely, a low-level bug.
Regards,
Dan
Mixing is all about control. My music: http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.
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chuckebaby
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Re: WARNING: Sonar Platinum will not run on Ryzen systems
2017/03/03 13:32:21
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Ya I cant imagine Sonar wont run at all on these new systems.
Before switching to using Intel I ran just about every AMD out there (Im a DAW builder on the side).
Sonar ran the bulldozer when it was first launched. its got to be either a hardware issue or an update to the Chipset, Mobo or possibly even Windows.
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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KPerry
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Re: WARNING: Sonar Platinum will not run on Ryzen systems
2017/03/03 13:39:04
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Reading the report on the link I sent through earlier, he explicitly says he ran a SONAR test. I think motherboard/driver/peripheral issue, not CPU. Unless the CPU is faulty of course :-)
Windows 7 x64 SP1 SONAR x86/x64 Intel Q6600/8GB MOTU UltraliteMk3 (USB/ASIO) Edirol PCR300
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MarioD
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Re: WARNING: Sonar Platinum will not run on Ryzen systems
2017/03/03 13:55:29
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The reason people say the vinyl sounds better is because the music was better. Sonar Platinum, Intel i7 –2600 CPU @ 3.2 GHz, 16 GB ram, 2x2TB internal drives and 1 1TB internal drive, Radeon HD 5570 video card, HP 25" monitor,
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www.soundcloud.com/Mario_Guitar
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mettelus
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Re: WARNING: Sonar Platinum will not run on Ryzen systems
2017/03/03 14:18:24
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KPerry
Reading the report on the link I sent through earlier, he explicitly says he ran a SONAR test. I think motherboard/driver/peripheral issue, not CPU. Unless the CPU is faulty of course :-)
At 4:30 in that video you linked above he uses the X3 demo project on what appears to be the DEMO version of SONAR Platinum. He makes a concerning comment "This is the first time we see the 1700X falling behind the Intel.." implying "SONAR" specifically it seems? He also uses words like "erratic" to describe the performance of that test. Actually, he does go on to say that behavior is replicated in other software (including games) and DAWs when the buffer is low.
ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
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pwalpwal
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Re: WARNING: Sonar Platinum will not run on Ryzen systems
2017/03/03 14:20:43
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maybe different instruction sets (or implementation) between cpus? there was some discussion a while back about the intel avx extensions, for example
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dcumpian
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Re: WARNING: Sonar Platinum will not run on Ryzen systems
2017/03/03 18:30:53
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Mixing is all about control. My music: http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.
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FLZapped
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Re: WARNING: Sonar Platinum will not run on Ryzen systems
2017/03/03 19:48:39
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ampfixer
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Re: WARNING: Sonar Platinum will not run on Ryzen systems
2017/03/03 20:11:02
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This is what happens when you give your new flagship a name that sounds very much like a dangerous toxin.
i.e. Ricin
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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BRuys
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Re: WARNING: Sonar Platinum will not run on Ryzen systems
2017/03/03 20:40:36
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Hey guys, thanks for all the feedback and suggestions. So it does look like folks have had Sonar running on Ryzen. Interesting that of the two systems I've tried, both crash. I will dig deeper today, disable onboard audio, etc and see if I can figure out exactly what is going on. In this video posted by one of you, there is a motherboard shot toward the end - I am running that exact same motherboard, so it should be working. I will report back as soon as I have this figured out.
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BRuys
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Re: WARNING: Sonar Platinum will not run on Ryzen systems
2017/03/03 22:36:14
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So, I've tried disabling onboard sound, etc, but still no dice. Here's the error in event viewer:
Faulting application name: SONARPLT.EXE, version: 23.1.0.32, time stamp: 0x588a602f
Faulting module name: SONARPLT.EXE, version: 23.1.0.32, time stamp: 0x588a602f
Exception code: 0xc0000094
Fault offset: 0x00000000003459c6
Faulting process id: 0x1f90
Faulting application start time: 0x01d2946d86d4c784
Faulting application path: C:\Program Files\Cakewalk\SONAR Platinum\SONARPLT.EXE
Faulting module path: C:\Program Files\Cakewalk\SONAR Platinum\SONARPLT.EXE
Report Id: 0cb6c848-90ac-4c88-a2b4-78605fedb5f2
Faulting package full name:
Faulting package-relative application ID:
I think it might be time to escalate this through to CW Tech Support to see if they can help.
EDIT: I have now logged this with tech support, so we'll see if they can help.
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Anderton
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Re: WARNING: Sonar Platinum will not run on Ryzen systems
2017/03/03 23:52:29
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Any chance some kind of antivirus or antimalware program was running when you were installing SONAR?
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JonD
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Re: WARNING: Sonar Platinum will not run on Ryzen systems
2017/03/04 03:05:40
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MarioD
According to this image from the above URL Sonar was better on CPU usage than the other two that were tested:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97281321/Sequencer-Comparison.jpg
Apparently Sonar did run on this system. So I would context the manufacturer and explain your problem because if they used Sonar for testing it should work.
So according to that chart, cpu usage in Sonar is almost 8 times more efficient than in Reaper (with Cubase performing slightly worse than Sonar). This flies in the face of every other past benchmark; Reaper is known for its super-efficient coding, so what in the heck happened? I'll admit, this is the first benchmark I've seen of the optimized Sonar Platinum (over X3)... If this is an accurate test, it is really impressive.
SonarPlat/CWbBL, Win 10 Pro, i7 2600K, Asus P8Z68 Deluxe, 16GB DDR3, Radeon HD5450, TC Electronic Impact Twin, Kawai MP11 Piano, Event ALP Monitors, Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro, Too Many Plugins, My lucky hat.
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BRuys
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Re: WARNING: Sonar Platinum will not run on Ryzen systems
2017/03/04 03:45:03
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Anderton
Any chance some kind of antivirus or antimalware program was running when you were installing SONAR?
I don't have any 3rd party AV installed yet, only what Windows 10 has natively (Windows defender, I guess). I guess I could try disabling Windows defender and install again. I'll give it a shot. In the mean time, I have sent CW tech support a minidump, so hopefully there's something in it that will point me in the right direction. EDIT: I uninstalled Sonar, disabled Windows Defender, reinstalled Sonar. Problem persists, so that wasn't it. I'll just have to wait for the minidump analysis.
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kitekrazy1
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Re: WARNING: Sonar Platinum will not run on Ryzen systems
2017/03/04 06:44:46
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JonD
MarioD
According to this image from the above URL Sonar was better on CPU usage than the other two that were tested:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97281321/Sequencer-Comparison.jpg
Apparently Sonar did run on this system. So I would context the manufacturer and explain your problem because if they used Sonar for testing it should work.
So according to that chart, cpu usage in Sonar is almost 8 times more efficient than in Reaper (with Cubase performing slightly worse than Sonar). This flies in the face of every other past benchmark; Reaper is known for its super-efficient coding, so what in the heck happened?
I'll admit, this is the first benchmark I've seen of the optimized Sonar Platinum (over X3)... If this is an accurate test, it is really impressive.
If that is accurate then I bet they have a fix within a week.
Sonar Platinum, W7 Pro 32GB Ram, Intel i7 4790, AsRock Z97 Pro 4, NVidia 750ti, AP2496 Sonar Platinum, W7 Pro, 16GB Ram, AMD FX 6300, Gigabyte GA 970 -UD3 P, nVidia 9800GT, Guitar Port, Terratec EWX 2496
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bvideo
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Re: WARNING: Sonar Platinum will not run on Ryzen systems
2017/03/04 09:25:09
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Not accurate. The three DAWs were run with three completely different loads ( 8 Good Reasons demo from Cubase 8) (“These Arms” Sonar demo)
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BRuys
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Re: WARNING: Sonar Platinum will not run on Ryzen systems
2017/03/04 09:30:59
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☄ Helpfulby Todd Page 2017/03/06 04:46:07
SOLVED!
So I figured out what my problem was. My new motherboard has a Realtek S1220A audio chip onboard. I had disabled the on-board audio in Device manager. I could see references to Realtek ASIO in aud.ini, so I deleted it and restarted Sonar, again it crashed, but when I looked in the newly created aud.ini, the reference to Realtek ASIO was back, so disabling it in device manager was not stopping Sonar from seeing the drivers. So, I uninstalled the device in device manager, choosing to remove the drivers. I deleted the aud.ini again and this time Sonar launched without crashing. So, to make sure it didn't come back on next boot, I went into BIOS settings and disabled the Realtek audio device there too. I rebooted and again, Sonar launched just fine. I was then able to select my MOTU audio I/F and all is now fine.
So lesson learned - disabling a dodgy onboard card in device manager is not enough - you have to get rid of all traces of it.
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bvideo
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Re: WARNING: Sonar Platinum will not run on Ryzen systems
2017/03/04 09:33:08
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Toward the end where they test smaller buffer sizes with DAWbench, it seems they have audio breakup at much lower CPU utilizations on the 1700x. That is probably more a symptom of DPC latency than CPU performance problems, and probably reflects more on the motherboard or chipset.
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Brando
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Re: WARNING: Sonar Platinum will not run on Ryzen systems
2017/03/04 13:03:21
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BRuys
SOLVED!
So I figured out what my problem was. My new motherboard has a Realtek S1220A audio chip onboard. I had disabled the on-board audio in Device manager. I could see references to Realtek ASIO in aud.ini, so I deleted it and restarted Sonar, again it crashed, but when I looked in the newly created aud.ini, the reference to Realtek ASIO was back, so disabling it in device manager was not stopping Sonar from seeing the drivers. So, I uninstalled the device in device manager, choosing to remove the drivers. I deleted the aud.ini again and this time Sonar launched without crashing. So, to make sure it didn't come back on next boot, I went into BIOS settings and disabled the Realtek audio device there too. I rebooted and again, Sonar launched just fine. I was then able to select my MOTU audio I/F and all is now fine.
So lesson learned - disabling a dodgy onboard card in device manager is not enough - you have to get rid of all traces of it.
That's great news. Would appreciate your posting a review when you have a chance to gauge your new DAW's performance.
Brando
Cakewalk, Studio One Pro, Reaper Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL ASUS Prime Z370-A LGA1151, 32GB DDR4, Intel 8700K i7, 500 GB SSD, 3 x 1TB HDD, Windows 10 Pro 64
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BRuys
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Re: WARNING: Sonar Platinum will not run on Ryzen systems
2017/03/04 13:30:36
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Brando
That's great news. Would appreciate your posting a review when you have a chance to gauge your new DAW's performance.
Sure thing. One thing I can say off the bat is that core loading is super even in Sonar on the Ryzen, like nothing I have ever seen before. It's 2:30 am here and I just got up because I can't sleep  . I'll do some more in-depth testing tomorrow.
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BRuys
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Re: WARNING: Sonar Platinum will not run on Ryzen systems
2017/03/04 13:55:05
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☄ Helpfulby Todd Page 2017/03/06 04:45:59
dcumpian
Based on this article, and borne out by AMD's stock price, you may have made a mistake:
https://www.benzinga.com/news/17/03/9120314/bad-news-for-amd-ryzen-7-getting-negative-reviews
Dan
But then when you see benchmarks in Linux like the first three HERE, you have to concede that the raw power is there and there will likely need to be some tweaks to Windows and some applications before we see Ryzen's true power. Apps and OS's have been tweaked for Intel processors for years. Ryzen is brand new and the paint is still wet on BIOS/Driver/OS/Application support. Things will only get better. My early impressions of Sonar on this platform are very favorable, but I won't have a solid feel for performance for a few more days.
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fayettec@gmail.com
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Re: WARNING: Sonar Platinum will not run on Ryzen systems
2017/03/30 03:15:36
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I just wanted to add I just got a Ryzen 1700 On a Gigabyte Gamng 3 (AMD 350 chipset), Not OC'd (yet) running Sonar Platinum through a Focusrite Scarlett 18i20. I updated my old Intel Q9650 Quad core. i did not reinstall any thing. Just put old drives on new system, chugged along for a bit while it updated the hardware in windows, but in the end every thing is working way better than i had hoped for!
I have not deap hard test. But I am running a fairly simple project of about 20 tracks for the last few hours practicing for a set. I was on the WMD but switched to ASIO and i wondered with all the talk about poor performance at low buffer settings how low could I go. In the past 10ms latency was the best i could do. I figured i would start at 4ms but then said lets just go for it. I set it to 1ms (45 samples) and it works flawless. I went from seeing only 1 cpu bar working up a little to a thin balanced line of 16 cpus.
I am in love with this new found power at a reasonable price point. Plus the mother board and AMD CPU cooler lights all look cool together fading across the spectrum.
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: WARNING: Sonar Platinum will not run on Ryzen systems
2017/04/01 18:43:59
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I believe the problem is with the realtek ASIO driver rather than the onboard audio device. Newer SONAR builds since last year work well with onboard audio devices in WASAPI. I've heard reports of the realtek ASIO driver crashing in SONAR but we havent been able to investigate since we don't have a PC that includes this driver. Do you know if this driver is available to download and if it works on any realtek chipset? I'm sure we could work around the crash if we get a repro. BRuys
SOLVED!
So I figured out what my problem was. My new motherboard has a Realtek S1220A audio chip onboard. I had disabled the on-board audio in Device manager. I could see references to Realtek ASIO in aud.ini, so I deleted it and restarted Sonar, again it crashed, but when I looked in the newly created aud.ini, the reference to Realtek ASIO was back, so disabling it in device manager was not stopping Sonar from seeing the drivers. So, I uninstalled the device in device manager, choosing to remove the drivers. I deleted the aud.ini again and this time Sonar launched without crashing. So, to make sure it didn't come back on next boot, I went into BIOS settings and disabled the Realtek audio device there too. I rebooted and again, Sonar launched just fine. I was then able to select my MOTU audio I/F and all is now fine.
So lesson learned - disabling a dodgy onboard card in device manager is not enough - you have to get rid of all traces of it.
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BRuys
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Re: WARNING: Sonar Platinum will not run on Ryzen systems
2017/04/01 22:25:45
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
I believe the problem is with the realtek ASIO driver rather than the onboard audio device.
Newer SONAR builds since last year work well with onboard audio devices in WASAPI.
I've heard reports of the realtek ASIO driver crashing in SONAR but we havent been able to investigate since we don't have a PC that includes this driver. Do you know if this driver is available to download and if it works on any realtek chipset? I'm sure we could work around the crash if we get a repro.
Hi Noel, I notice that the driver has been updated by my motherboard vendor since this first happened. Not sure if it has fixed the problem, but I would be happy to check for you. If still buggy, I will point you to the driver. Also, I sent a crash dump when I logged a support issue. I might still have the dump file - would that be useful?
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: WARNING: Sonar Platinum will not run on Ryzen systems
2017/04/03 03:53:38
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In the past the dump didnt indicate why the driver crashed so having a test case would be more useful.
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BRuys
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Re: WARNING: Sonar Platinum will not run on Ryzen systems
2017/04/03 10:40:04
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
In the past the dump didnt indicate why the driver crashed so having a test case would be more useful.
OK, I will re-install the onboard audio and report back.
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