SWA vs Groove 3

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BadBadger
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2012/09/25 13:50:04 (permalink)

SWA vs Groove 3

I posted this in "Get Started" but haven't gotten a response yet, so I thought I would try here: Based on their past offerings, can anyone offer an opinion as to which of the SONAR X2 video tutorials I should buy . . . SWA's or Groove 3's? Is there even a compelling argument for having both? Thanks
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    JonD
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    Re:SWA vs Groove 3 2012/09/25 13:57:37 (permalink)
    I don't see how anyone can answer this for you since they are both great and it really comes down to a matter of taste (as far as style and pacing).
     
    Both sites offer a sample segment... Have you checked them out?
     
     

    SonarPlat/CWbBL, Win 10 Pro, i7 2600K, Asus P8Z68 Deluxe, 16GB DDR3, Radeon HD5450, TC Electronic Impact Twin, Kawai MP11 Piano, Event ALP Monitors, Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro, Too Many Plugins, My lucky hat.
    #2
    STinGA
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    Re:SWA vs Groove 3 2012/09/25 14:00:42 (permalink)
    I have both and they are both fantastic. 

    Groove 3 is very consise and to the point.

    SWA is very detailed hence it's nearly twice a long.  If you are new to Sonar this is probably the one to go for as It presumes nothing and explains everything.

    I will reiterate they are both fantastic!

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    #3
    FastBikerBoy
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    Re:SWA vs Groove 3 2012/09/25 14:01:07 (permalink)
    Can I answer?
    #4
    JonD
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    Re:SWA vs Groove 3 2012/09/25 14:02:16 (permalink)
    There is one difference that should be mentioned.  The SWA video comes as one big file that is rather large in size (I think about 3GB), so you will need a system with plenty of horsepower/ram to play it.
     
    The Groove3 one has all the videos separated in a folder, so you can play them individually if need be.
     

    SonarPlat/CWbBL, Win 10 Pro, i7 2600K, Asus P8Z68 Deluxe, 16GB DDR3, Radeon HD5450, TC Electronic Impact Twin, Kawai MP11 Piano, Event ALP Monitors, Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro, Too Many Plugins, My lucky hat.
    #5
    cryophonik
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    Re:SWA vs Groove 3 2012/09/25 14:08:35 (permalink)
    I can't comment on the SWA X2 vid, but I have an All-Access pass to Groove3.com and their videos are pretty fantastic.  They also have a tendency to release an "Advanced" version of their DAW tutorials sometime after the more basic "Explained" version, so keep that in mind, although that would require a second purchase if you don't have an All-Access membership (which I highly recommend if you have a lot of music software).

    That said, I have purchased other SWA videos in the past and they are very thorough.

    cryophonik   |   soundcloud  |   Facebook

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    Eli Krantzberg
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    Re:SWA vs Groove 3 2012/09/25 14:09:02 (permalink)
    Can I??


    FastBikerBoy


    Can I answer?


    #7
    cryophonik
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    Re:SWA vs Groove 3 2012/09/25 14:12:56 (permalink)
    Eli Krantzberg


    Can I??


    FastBikerBoy


    Can I answer?





    Hey Eli, since you're here, I just wanted to take a moment to thank you and give you kudos for all of your excellent work.  Between the Sonar and Pro Tools vids, I think I spend more time listening to you than I do to my wife! 



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    Fog
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    Re:SWA vs Groove 3 2012/09/25 14:13:07 (permalink)
    JonD


    There is one difference that should be mentioned.  The SWA video comes as one big file that is rather large in size (I think about 3GB), so you will need a system with plenty of horsepower/ram to play it.
     
    The Groove3 one has all the videos separated in a folder, so you can play them individually if need be.
     

    not really the case.. just because it's a big file doesn't equate that. it probably will play on a family members 10 year old AMD 2700 with 1.5 gb ram without issue.


    I signed up for a year with groove 3, so get to see it regardless.. although I did get FBB's one (and hopefully his agent isn't getting 55p ;-) ) . 

    my only problem is the word sonEr  (from the start) ... it's sonar :) , and like a true cockney geezer you drop your T's the odd time :)


    7:27- setup / seHup -  1:10 greyed Ouh / out





    post edited by Fog - 2012/09/25 14:21:16
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    FastBikerBoy
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    Re:SWA vs Groove 3 2012/09/25 14:15:39 (permalink)
    Eli Krantzberg


    Can I??


    FastBikerBoy


    Can I answer?




    LOL...
    #10
    BadBadger
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    Re:SWA vs Groove 3 2012/09/25 14:35:06 (permalink)
    I certainly didn't intend to "start somethin'", so I'm glad to see the "competitors" being friendly here. ;) I just didn't know if the 2 tutorials specialized in different aspects of SONAR or covered much of the same ground. Having looked at some of the samples, I have just about decided that getting both might be a good idea. Thanks for the opinions (and the friendly pokes.)
    #11
    FastBikerBoy
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    Re:SWA vs Groove 3 2012/09/25 14:40:06 (permalink)
    If it helps here's a link to a breakdown PDF.


    I'm sure Eli has something similar.
    #12
    garrigus
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    Re:SWA vs Groove 3 2012/09/25 14:41:58 (permalink)
    SONAR X2 Power is also in the works. 


    Scott

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    #13
    Mesh
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    Re:SWA vs Groove 3 2012/09/25 14:50:05 (permalink)
    Enter the Octagon......Scott!!

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    #14
    Truckermusic
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    Re:SWA vs Groove 3 2012/09/25 14:52:56 (permalink)
    Well all I can say is I got both....

    FFB's swa video has already shown me more stuff that I wanted to know and how to do for the past couple of version of Sonar it in the first two hours that I could of ever of gotten anywhere else.

    And Groove 3, well I really like their instruction alot anyway. I always buy the Companion CD as well.....just in case.....

    I think both video's will be a nice addition to your knowledge bank.....

    and besides think about it like this. If you went to take guitar lessons some where (at the Professional level I'm talking about not the around the corner store) how much would that cost you?     and would you be able to re visit that lesson later???????

    For the money.....hands down....a no brainer on education on both!
    Come on. 9 hours of instruction for $26 and 5 more for $30 so altogether you have $56 dollars invested in 14 hours of instruction which translates to $5.60 per hour..........
    and best of all, put them on a flash drive, take em to work and watch em at lunch hour.....what a way to get inspired!
    Just my 2 cents
    Clifford

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    Eli Krantzberg
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    Re:SWA vs Groove 3 2012/09/25 14:55:32 (permalink)
    cryophonik

    Hey Eli, since you're here, I just wanted to take a moment to thank you and give you kudos for all of your excellent work.  Between the Sonar and Pro Tools vids, I think I spend more time listening to you than I do to my wife! 



    Hi cryophonik, 

    Thanks for the kind words! Glad you enjoyed them. Hope your wife wasn't too upset. I remember when I was working on those Pro Tool videos, my wife referred to herself as a "Pro Tools Widow", and threatened to get a dog 


    #16
    JonD
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    Re:SWA vs Groove 3 2012/09/25 14:59:47 (permalink)
    Fog


    JonD


    There is one difference that should be mentioned.  The SWA video comes as one big file that is rather large in size (I think about 3GB), so you will need a system with plenty of horsepower/ram to play it.

    The Groove3 one has all the videos separated in a folder, so you can play them individually if need be.


    not really the case.. just because it's a big file doesn't equate that. it probably will play on a family members 10 year old AMD 2700 with 1.5 gb ram without issue....


    "Probably will play..."?  Sounds a lot like guessing, where as I'm speaking from my own past experience:  My previous PC was an Athlon x2 4000 Opteron with 2GB ram, and it couldn't adequately play a 2GB AVI file (Tried different vid players, codecs - just wasn't happening).  This was my DAW, so it was kept clean and running well.  I upgraded to my current Q6600, and problem solved.
     
    Bottom line, my advice is you need a decently spec'ed PC to play a 3GB video.  Saying it will "probably play" on an old system to a potential buyer doesn't help him if you're wrong....

    SonarPlat/CWbBL, Win 10 Pro, i7 2600K, Asus P8Z68 Deluxe, 16GB DDR3, Radeon HD5450, TC Electronic Impact Twin, Kawai MP11 Piano, Event ALP Monitors, Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro, Too Many Plugins, My lucky hat.
    #17
    BadBadger
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    Re:SWA vs Groove 3 2012/09/25 15:00:45 (permalink)
    Trucker, makes perfect sense to me. And Scott, getting SONAR X2 Power is an absolute no-brainer!
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    Eli Krantzberg
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    Re:SWA vs Groove 3 2012/09/25 15:00:46 (permalink)
    FastBikerBoy


    If it helps here's a link to a breakdown PDF.


    I'm sure Eli has something similar.



    Hey FBB, 


    I do have a video summary, but unfortunately it's not available directly on line. I posted it in another message on this forum a few days ago; I hope no one minds if I post it here again. 


    PS: FBB - Your Matrix video is very well done. Congratulations, I have no doubt that your series is packed full of great tips. 



    The Basics - Get off to the right start with Sonar X2 by setting up your hardware and learning your way around the interface. 

    01. Lift Off!- Overview of basic audio and MIDI hardware setup and settings.

    02. Language - Explore some of the basic terminology and concepts used in the Sonar X2 project hierarchy, and learn about the common file types available.

    03. Look - Take a first look around the Sonar X2 interface and learn about the basic elements of the interface.

    04. Listen - Explore the Browser, see how to manually set up a preview bus and audition audio loops at various tempo, and learn how to work with the various docking options. 

    05. Synth Rack Intro - See how to use the Browser's Synth tab to load soft synths, and then use the Media tab to audition MIDI Files as well as load clips and create tracks.

    06. NOW's The Time! - Explore some of the ways of moving the NOW time to various playback positions.

    07. Time Ruler and Transport Tips - Discover how to zoom directly from the time ruler, change and add time ruler formats, and how to use some additional transport commands to control playback.


    Recording - Learn what you need to know to make your own audio and MIDI recordings. 

    08. Metronome Setup - Watch as we manually create a bus for the metronome output, and set the various parameters to customize the click and count off.

    09. Basic MIDI Recording - Listen as a MIDI drum track is set up and recorded to a click, and see how to create additional MIDI tracks routed to a single software synth.

    10. Input Quantize - Learn how to set up a custom quantize template and use it to quantize mIDI recordings immediately on input.

    11. Recording With The Arpeggiator - Discover the rhythmic possibilities available with Sonar X2s arpeggiator, and how to load, save, and edit it's presets and parameters.

    12. Basic Audio Recording - See how to set inputs, arm multiple tracks, set various recording preferences, check levels, and record an audio track.

    13. Input Echo - See how to use the Input Echo function to monitor the audio signal from Sonar X2 while recording, and how to mute the sound card input in the Windows 7 Control Panel. 


    Working With The Display - Dig a bit deeper into Sonar X2 and discover ways of customizing your workflow. 

    14. Track Display Shortcuts - Learn several useful keyboard shortcuts for managing the view and sizing of the tracks in the Track View.

    15. Zooming Techniques - Discover different ways of zooming and scrolling the disply using menu commands, keyboard shortcuts, the mouse and mouse wheel with various modifiers, and the new Sonar X2 Auto Zoom feature.

    16. Track Display Options - Learn how to load and display custom icons, how to customize which elements are displayed in the different classes of channel strips using the Track Control Manager, how to modify the meter display; and how to export track templates.

    17. Clips Pane Display Options - Control and modify the clip information displayed in the Clips Pane, and see how to set the double click behavior, rename clips and tracks, and change the clip colors.


    Editing In Track View - Take your project to the next level by utilizing Sonar X2's powerful editing capabilities. 

    18. Editing Quick start - Explore Track Filter and edit filter settings; and learn how to call up the various tools using the Tool HUD.

    19. Working With The Tools - Discover the functions of each of the main edit tools, how to make both clip based edits and time based edits, and how to use the hidden scrub and zoom tools.

    20. The Smart Tool - The Smart Tool combines the most commonly used functions of the other edit tools. Learn how to use it's various functions based on it's position in Clips and different modifier key combinations.

    21. Smart Snap - Discover the various absolute and relative snap based editing functions, and see how the new smart snap and secondary snap features work. 

    22. Using Markers - Markers are useful for jumping to preset locations, making time based selections, and simple visual organization. Watch as markers are created and edited within a project.

    23. Split, Drag, Paste, and Link - Learn how some of the various options for splitting, copying, pasting, and linking clips work

    24. The Track Inspector - Explore the anatomy of the various channel strip types, and learn more about the Track properties inspector controls.

    25. Clip Properties - Discover some of the ways audio and MIDI clips are edited from the Clips Properties Inspector.


    Advanced Editing - Make your content work at different tempos, and discover some alternate methods of MIDI part creation and editing. 

    26. Quantizing With AudioSnap - Watch as we put AudioSnap to work quantizing the shaker part non destructively, and then render it as a new clip. 

    27. Working With Groove Clips - See how easy it is to turn an audio file into a loop that will follow project pitch and tempo, using the Groove Clip Inspector properties. 

    28. The Piano Roll View Display - Learn how to customize which Piano Roll View window elements are displayed, how to work with multiple tracks simultaneously, and some simple selection techniques.

    29. Note Editing in Piano Roll View pt 1 - Watch as notes are trimmed, transposed, glued, scrubbed, quantized,and erased.

    30. Note Editing in Piano Roll View pt 2 - See how individual or multiple notes are created using either the Smart Tool or the Freehand Draw tool.

    31. Nudge, Tab, and Inspect - Learn how to use the Event Inspector Module, combined with the Nudge and Tab commands to speed up your work flow.


    Recording Techniques - Learn how to punch in, loop record, and manage multiple takes with Sonar X2's new Take Lanes.

    32. Auto Punch Recording - Discover how to punch in and replace portions of live audio recordings unsing Sonar's Auto Punch functions.

    33. Loop Recording - See how Loop playback and recording is set up and is used to capture multiple passes over a specified range either to take lanes or to newly created audio tracks. 

    34. Working With Take Lanes - Discover how take lanes are used to edit together composite tracks using a variety of techniques including muting, splitting, and clip isolation. 


    Mixing - Bring your sound together by customizing your signal routing, adding effects processing, and automating your mix. 

    35. Customizing The Console View - Learn how to hide or reveal various elements and track types in the Console View, and hwo to customize the look and response of the meters. 

    36. Using Multi Port Instruments and Track Folders - See how to assign multiple outputs in Session Drummer for effects processign of the individual elements, and then pack all of the newly created tracks together into a Track Folder. 

    37. Working With Real Time FX - Discover how effects processing is applied either to complete tracks or specific clips, and how to navigate the plug-in porpeties page controls.

    38. FX Chains 2.0 - Yeah! - Learn how to consolidate multiple plug-ins into FX Chains, and how to assign customizable controls in the FX Chain Container window.

    39. Sends and Busses - Watch as the Insert Send Assistant is used to create sends simultaneously on multiple tracks to a new Bus with a Breverb plug-in, and how busses are created and set up for use as sub groups.

    40. ProChannel QuickStart - Learn how to load, sort, replace, manage, and work with the various ProChannel elements; how to insert FX Chains directly in between the ProChannel modules; and how to call up the new Console Emulation module as the first plug-in on all tracks simultaneously. 

    41. EQ and Compression - Look and listen to how EQ and compression are applied to the various elements in the mix. 

    42. Automation Modes and Automation Lanes - Learn how the different automation modes work, and see how to use the new automation lanes functions to organize multiple automation envelopes.

    43. Drawing and Editing Automation - Discover how to edit exisitign automation nodes, as well as how to create new automation directly in the Clips Pane using the various pattern tools. 

    44. Working With MIDI Continuous Controller Messages - Learn how to assign MIDI CC messages to specific synth controls, and then animate their movement in the Piano Roll View's Controller Pane. 

    45. Final Mix and Fade Out - Watch as some final automation and limiting is applied; and then listen as the complete mix is exported to a CD quality audio file in real time. 



    #19
    BadBadger
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    Re:SWA vs Groove 3 2012/09/25 15:04:26 (permalink)
    I've already learned something just reading the summaries! lol
    #20
    garrigus
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    Re:SWA vs Groove 3 2012/09/25 15:05:11 (permalink)
    Thanks Mesh and Badger! I'm workin' on it. 


    Scott

    --
    Scott R. Garrigus - http://garrigus.com
    * Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series: http://garrigus.com/?PowerBooks
    * Author of the Cakewalk Sonar ProAudioTutor video tutorial series: http://garrigus.com/?ProAudioTutor
    * Publisher of the DigiFreq free music technology newsletter: http://digifreq.com/?DigiFreq
    * Publisher of the NewTechReview free consumer technology newsletter: http://newtechreview.com/?NewTechReview

    #21
    FastBikerBoy
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    Re:SWA vs Groove 3 2012/09/25 15:26:26 (permalink)
    PS: FBB - Your Matrix video is very well done. Congratulations, I have no doubt that your series is packed full of great tips.
     
    Thank you. I've always thought your stuff is great and the taster I saw for this one was no exception. You make it look and sound very easy to do............
     
     
    #22
    rtucker55
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    Re:SWA vs Groove 3 2012/09/25 15:46:58 (permalink)
    @Eli

    Really enjoyed the video and I Really Enjoyed the little smooth jazz tune you used in the tutorial. It is rare to hear something from this genre in a software tutorial. I kept finding myself wanting to rush ahead so I could see where you were going next with it.

    Now I can't seem to get that synth melody line out of my head...   

    Kind regards,
    Rick Tucker

    Purrrfect Audio DAW here.  Wow!...
    #23
    musichoo
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    Re:SWA vs Groove 3 2012/09/25 15:52:31 (permalink)
    I was piano student that had studied with many teachers at college level. All of my professors have something new to contribute in their own different way and that defined who I am as a piano teacher today.
    So, with that in mind, I decided to cover all ground.  I had just purchased the SWA video. Watching Eli's video at groove3 (I have one year subcribtion). I have only praises for Eli. I think he is a great educator.
    And I might get the X2 power book. Scott has many years of success with these series . I had bought a couple.

    I think they are all great teachers with different experiences to share.
    #24
    Eli Krantzberg
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    Re:SWA vs Groove 3 2012/09/25 16:13:07 (permalink)
    rtucker55


    @Eli

    Really enjoyed the video and I Really Enjoyed the little smooth jazz tune you used in the tutorial. It is rare to hear something from this genre in a software tutorial. I kept finding myself wanting to rush ahead so I could see where you were going next with it.

    Now I can't seem to get that synth melody line out of my head...   

    Kind regards,
    Rick Tucker

    Hey Rick, 


    Thanks! For those who are interested, the entire Sonar project file is available for download from groove3, in case you want to take a look at any part of it. 
    #25
    Marcus Curtis
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    Re:SWA vs Groove 3 2012/09/25 17:07:43 (permalink)
    I just downloaded the Groove 3 Sonar X2 video. I purchased the three videos They made on Sonar X1 and found them insightful and helpful.

    If you plan on getting the Groove 3 video for X2 you should know that right now is a good time to buy it. It is on sale at the Groove 3 site. It sells for 49.00, But if you go to Groove 3 and open an account with them (for free) you can buy it for 29 bucks. I don't know how long it will be on sale.

    http://www.marcuscurtismusic.com/  

    Windows 10 ultimate, Sonar Platinum, AMD Phenom 2 x6 1075T processor 3.00 GHz, (6 cores) 8 gigs of Ram, 

    Audio interfaces=VS-100, Pod X3 live pro, Boss GT-100, Boss GP10
    Midi Controllers=Edirol  PCR 800, roland GR-55.    

    Ozone 7, Podfarm, Th2 Full Version, Melda, True Pianos Full Version, and a whole bunch of free VST plugins which can be found through my site.
     
    #26
    Fog
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    Re:SWA vs Groove 3 2012/09/25 17:42:51 (permalink)
    JonD


    Fog


    JonD


    There is one difference that should be mentioned.  The SWA video comes as one big file that is rather large in size (I think about 3GB), so you will need a system with plenty of horsepower/ram to play it.

    The Groove3 one has all the videos separated in a folder, so you can play them individually if need be.


    not really the case.. just because it's a big file doesn't equate that. it probably will play on a family members 10 year old AMD 2700 with 1.5 gb ram without issue....


    "Probably will play..."?  Sounds a lot like guessing, where as I'm speaking from my own past experience:  My previous PC was an Athlon x2 4000 Opteron with 2GB ram, and it couldn't adequately play a 2GB AVI file (Tried different vid players, codecs - just wasn't happening).  This was my DAW, so it was kept clean and running well.  I upgraded to my current Q6600, and problem solved.
     
    Bottom line, my advice is you need a decently spec'ed PC to play a 3GB video.  Saying it will "probably play" on an old system to a potential buyer doesn't help him if you're wrong....

     not guessing, but my raspberry pi will play full video of big files and thats = pentium 2 (and that has very limited memory as well) .. I should say that has 128 mb ram and 128 gfx mem on 1 chip

    it's not loading the whole file into memory, well most players don't.. so sure it's 3gb but it's 3gb streamed / buffered... (and of course use of a swap file)...  remember the player also has an impact.. e.g. VLC will play it without issue, have I tried it with that specific file ? nope.. but have other tutorial files in the past.

    is that why when I start task manager VLC is only using 100-160mb of ram and not the whole 3 gb ;-) and when it's not doing anything with any file 10mb . Putting 1 stream of video/audio playback shouldn't be demanding.. hence why I find it off your comment a none issue in the first place. Most people who make music anyway have a OVERLY decent pc.. which will easily play anything chucked it it.



    post edited by Fog - 2012/09/25 17:58:57
    #27
    Chris Hawkins
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    Re:SWA vs Groove 3 2012/09/27 00:44:14 (permalink)
    The file size should not have any relation to performance. What will affect the performance will be how it is encoded and the power needed to decode it. Our videos are encoded to AVC Profile Baseline@3.1 - this allows maximum compatibility with various devices while maintaining a decent looking video (for audio we use AAC-LC @128kbps). Again the performance is related to how well the computer can decode the video and audio streams. And with the profile we use (Baseline@3.1) most devices can handle this with ease (even older iPod Touch models, Apple TV etc). As for multiple files... well I guess this could be done - but again for portability (i.e those that will be syncing and watching the videos on portable devices), a single file we find works best for file management. On a side note, we have reduced the file size from 3GB to just under 2GB the other day to allow for faster downloads while not sacrificing quality. Cheers, Chris

    Managing Director
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    #28
    John
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    Re:SWA vs Groove 3 2012/09/27 02:21:19 (permalink)
    I would recommend SWA. Groove 3 is good but I think FBB is far more engaging. 

    Also his is a bargain.

    Best
    John
    #29
    Grem
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    Re:SWA vs Groove 3 2012/09/27 02:38:35 (permalink)
    It's just great that we have both teams on here supporting they own works.

    I started watching the FBB and even though it was just the first 15 min, I did learn one thing or two! And I recommend to any first timers or n00bs!!

    Grem

    Michael
     
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    #30
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