magik570
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Re: no respect- new Gearslutz sub forums
2015/10/09 16:57:46
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Paul P
Adq
And to change it Cakewalk should pay more to promote and advertise and to change its image completely, or make it so strong and attractive that mass of people would run and buy it.
Just fix Staff View and give Sonar away to every department of music in the country.
Totally agree.. Sonar is nowhere less than Pro Tools if not better. I tried Pro Tools for 2 weeks, as soon as I got to the Comping part tutorial, I dropped Protools right away... Sonar is way more user friendly.
Macbook Pro (Early 2011) INTEL i5-2.4 ghz 16GB RAM SoundCard: Focusrite Scarlett 18i8 Sonar Platinum M-Audio 88es Fishman Triple Play Ibanez JS1000 guitar Roland MA-8 Desktop Monitors KRK Rokit 5
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Adq
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Re: no respect- new Gearslutz sub forums
2015/10/09 17:09:19
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magik570
Paul P
Adq
And to change it Cakewalk should pay more to promote and advertise and to change its image completely, or make it so strong and attractive that mass of people would run and buy it.
Just fix Staff View and give Sonar away to every department of music in the country.
Totally agree.. Sonar is nowhere less than Pro Tools if not better. I tried Pro Tools for 2 weeks, as soon as I got to the Comping part tutorial, I dropped Protools right away... Sonar is way more user friendly.
Yeah, we all know it here. But to get recognition in nowadays situation Sonar must crush and destroy other daws. It must have many unique and very popular features, and don't have any white spots where it can't do what others can. It must be actually better than other programs to gain the same level of recognition, because right now it has bad reputation among non-users.
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GregGraves
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Re: no respect- new Gearslutz sub forums
2015/10/09 17:23:37
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I'm a musician. Not a DAW opinion promoter. I built my own PC. I don't think you can build your own Mac. The only limitations I experience in Sonar are due to me.
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Anderton
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Re: no respect- new Gearslutz sub forums
2015/10/09 17:24:59
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Adq
because right now it has bad reputation among non-users.
I don't think anyone would deny that SONAR went through some rough times. Hopefully those who do use SONAR will spread the word that it is progressing rapidly.
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Adq
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Re: no respect- new Gearslutz sub forums
2015/10/09 17:58:53
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Anderton
Adq
because right now it has bad reputation among non-users.
I don't think anyone would deny that SONAR went through some rough times. Hopefully those who do use SONAR will spread the word that it is progressing rapidly.
I like what you are saying, but I can't fully agree. I know you have very best intentions and you are always so optimistic, and spread this positive thinking among others. But what you offer could work only after that Sonar's progress would be over, and it became really huge power in "daw wars". Other way it would look like that: Someone rude: - You use Sonar? It sucks. Me: - But... but it is progressing rapidly...
post edited by Adq - 2015/10/09 18:09:22
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Anderton
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Re: no respect- new Gearslutz sub forums
2015/10/09 18:11:44
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SONAR's progress will never be over  . That's one of the things I like about it. But it already is a fine DAW, and is progressing to greater things...
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Adq
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Re: no respect- new Gearslutz sub forums
2015/10/09 18:32:55
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Anderton
SONAR's progress will never be over . That's one of the things I like about it. But it already is a fine DAW, and is progressing to greater things...
Yes, I know it and I agree. But it sounds not so impressive for others. There is another way - more aggressive advertising. I would suggest product placement in learning videos. Not those videos on Cakewalk site, or videos describing Sonar features. But videos that learn producing and mixing, for beginners and somewhere above, and video must not mention Sonar in its name. I have never met anything like that ( maybe only your articles).
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lingyai
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Re: no respect- new Gearslutz sub forums
2015/10/09 18:37:54
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Actually, come to think of it, why would anyone (except for Cakewalk, which has to think about sales) care what others think of Sonar? Not like anyone's trying to ban it. Everyone chooses their DAW, plugins, mics, interfaces etc to make music they way they'd like. Live and let live. What's the point of getting tribal?
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Anderton
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Re: no respect- new Gearslutz sub forums
2015/10/09 18:39:33
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Adq
I would suggest product placement in learning videos. Not those videos on Cakewalk site, or videos describing Sonar features. But videos that learn producing and mixing, for beginners and somewhere above, and video must not mention Sonar in its name. I have never met anything like that ( maybe only your articles).
I agree, I'd love to do more instructional videos and of course, I'd be using SONAR. Meanwhile, you mean like this?
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Adq
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Re: no respect- new Gearslutz sub forums
2015/10/09 18:41:54
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lingyai
Actually, come to think of it, why would anyone (except for Cakewalk, which has to think about sales) care what others think of Sonar? Not like anyone's trying to ban it. Everyone chooses their DAW, plugins, mics, interfaces etc to make music they way they'd like. Live and let live. What's the point of getting tribal?
Hm, because people more often are not making music alone. So more Sonar users would be very good for existing Sonar users.
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Anderton
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Re: no respect- new Gearslutz sub forums
2015/10/09 18:47:08
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lingyai
Actually, come to think of it, why would anyone (except for Cakewalk, which has to think about sales) care what others think of Sonar?
Because we would all go through horrible symptoms of withdrawal if people stopped buying SONAR and Cakewalk went out of business. If people are bad-mouthing SONAR because they've tried Platinum and genuinely don't like it, that's fine...to each his own. But in the context of Gearslutz, I've seen plenty of people bad-mouthing a variety of products they've never tried, or even seen at trade shows, or anything because "I've heard that..." If someone is looking to get into a DAW, and they go to a forum where people are all saying "Ohhh, SONAR is bad, I know it is because everyone else here tells me it's bad," then they may never find out that SONAR Artists is one helluva deal for $99.
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Anderton
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Re: no respect- new Gearslutz sub forums
2015/10/09 18:49:18
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Adq
lingyai
Actually, come to think of it, why would anyone (except for Cakewalk, which has to think about sales) care what others think of Sonar? Not like anyone's trying to ban it. Everyone chooses their DAW, plugins, mics, interfaces etc to make music they way they'd like. Live and let live. What's the point of getting tribal?
Hm, because people more often are not making music alone. So more Sonar users would be very good for existing Sonar users.
Another excellent point. The way I got around that with a friend who I collaborate with was to convince him to get SONAR so he could open my projects, then save out the WAV files and open them in something else. I'll admit it was a Trojan horse...he converted to using SONAR because he liked it so much better than the, uh, "industry standard" program he had been using.
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Adq
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Re: no respect- new Gearslutz sub forums
2015/10/09 18:52:59
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Anderton
Meanwhile, you mean like this?
Actually no. I mean something like Pensado's lessons, and some major online music learning sites. This sites have Sonar videos, but only for learning Sonar. If they are teaching producing or mixing in general they always use ProTools, Logic or Ableton Live.
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John T
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Re: no respect- new Gearslutz sub forums
2015/10/09 18:59:20
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Adq
lingyai
Actually, come to think of it, why would anyone (except for Cakewalk, which has to think about sales) care what others think of Sonar? Not like anyone's trying to ban it. Everyone chooses their DAW, plugins, mics, interfaces etc to make music they way they'd like. Live and let live. What's the point of getting tribal?
Hm, because people more often are not making music alone. So more Sonar users would be very good for existing Sonar users.
I think at this point, that's an intractable issue. In the last three months alone, I've had mix projects come to me from ProTools, Logic, Ableton, GarageBand and even an ancient version of Cubase. You just have to get on and work out the conversion and handover steps. Obviously, if you've got a regular collaborator, it makes sense for you to agree on a platform. But there's no "safe" DAW that makes it simple to work with lots of different people. It's a shame OMF development petered out. There really should be a better standard for interchange. But I suppose it's hard to justify development costs on something that confers little or no market advantage.
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John T
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Re: no respect- new Gearslutz sub forums
2015/10/09 19:01:03
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Oh, and for the record, I've just applied for a freelance gig that specifically asked for a Sonar user. Everyone is all over the place. The only thing you can truly believe in is WAVs. All else is a matter of faith.
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Adq
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Re: no respect- new Gearslutz sub forums
2015/10/09 19:13:07
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Ok, if it is not enough. People tend to teach each other, it is most efficient way to learn music software. So there are more themes to discuss if two people are using the same DAW.
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lingyai
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Re: no respect- new Gearslutz sub forums
2015/10/09 19:24:06
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☄ Helpfulby John T 2015/10/09 20:12:05
John T
Everyone is all over the place. The only thing you can truly believe in is WAVs. All else is a matter of faith.
Agreed. I recall seeing a poll somewhere (I think KVR) suggesting that the DAW market is as splintered as this year's race for the Republican nomination -- even the leader is in a distinct minority. The notion that any one DAW (much less Sonar) will become so prevalent as to become the de facto medium of exchange among musos seems pretty flimsy. So no, Sonar users don't *need* others to use Sonar -- what percentage of projects have you done which have depended on that? Personally, I think DAW rivalry (like smartphone rivalry, OS rivalry, car rivalry, high school football team rivalry etc) is a Rich World problem -- a silly, made-up reason for people to dislike each other.
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Paul P
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Re: no respect- new Gearslutz sub forums
2015/10/09 19:30:38
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☄ Helpfulby John T 2015/10/09 20:12:29
John T
It's a shame OMF development petered out. There really should be a better standard for interchange. But I suppose it's hard to justify development costs on something that confers little or no market advantage.
I worked at the ISO level on interchange formats for office documents and their various types of content. All major companies participated and it would have been easy for any one of them to have their products support the standards. But these standards also petered out due mostly to one or two big 'classic' companies refusing to give up their proprietary hold on their customers. They failed to realize that doing so would have been good for everyone, themselves included. That was 25 years ago and the problem still hasn't been resolved. Sad if it's also the case in the music/media industry.
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yevster
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Re: no respect- new Gearslutz sub forums
2015/10/09 19:32:26
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Adq
Slate doesn't respect Sonar as a major daw, Gearsluts don't respect...
Unfortunately Sonar is not widely recognized as major daw.
And in fact it is not a major daw.
Sonar is oldschool niche enthusiastic marginal daw still.
And to change it Cakewalk should pay more to promote and advertise and to change its image completely, or make it so strong and attractive that mass of people would run and buy it.
There was a time when Sonar was advertised in virtually every issue of every magazine, especially around release time. The problem was, those releases were as heavy on bugs and half-baked features as they were on advertising. In my experience, the incremental model has led to much reliability improvement, but Sonar's reputation will take longer to recover. Actually, the "because windows" rationale seems quite plausible, because also omitted in that list is FLStudio, which is huge and prominent in the EDM community.
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John
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Re: no respect- new Gearslutz sub forums
2015/10/09 19:33:04
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I'm not sure what one expects. Is it that we want people to bow down when we mention the DAW we use? It is and has always been a matter of personal choice. If someone can't see Sonar's usefulness, so what, the jokes on them.
I can see respecting talent but respecting a DAW. No. Its a tool like a hammer. It either works for you or it doesn't. Respect goes to the man using the tool.
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Paul P
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Re: no respect- new Gearslutz sub forums
2015/10/09 19:37:04
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John
I can see respecting talent but respecting a DAW. No. Its a tool like a hammer. It either works for you or it doesn't. There are environments in which you can start a pretty lively discussion on who makes the best hammer 
Sonar Platinum [2017.10], Win7U x64 sp1, Xeon E5-1620 3.6 GHz, Asus P9X79WS, 16 GB ECC, 128gb SSD, HD7950, Mackie Blackjack
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yevster
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Re: no respect- new Gearslutz sub forums
2015/10/09 19:50:41
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Respect for the tool = $ invested into the tool. So it matters
One culprit is not the quantity but the quality of Cakewalk's marketing. It has always been lackluster.
Here's how Cakewalk markets its DAW:
This is how Avid markets its DAW:
This is how Steinberg markets its DAW:
All three use celebrities, but two will actually attract audiences across all DAWs who want to learn, and one is just a celebrity ad.
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John T
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Re: no respect- new Gearslutz sub forums
2015/10/09 20:04:10
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John
I'm not sure what one expects. Is it that we want people to bow down when we mention the DAW we use?
I want people to bow before I've said anything. Just as soon as I walk in the room.
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lingyai
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Re: no respect- new Gearslutz sub forums
2015/10/09 20:06:54
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☄ Helpfulby John T 2015/10/09 20:18:37
John T
John
I'm not sure what one expects. Is it that we want people to bow down when we mention the DAW we use?
I want people to bow before I've said anything. Just as soon as I walk in the room.
So *that's* why I've never seen you and Donald Trump photographed together ;-)
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John T
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Re: no respect- new Gearslutz sub forums
2015/10/09 20:08:54
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Adq
Ok, if it is not enough. People tend to teach each other, it is most efficient way to learn music software. So there are more themes to discuss if two people are using the same DAW.
I dunno about that. Keyboard shortcuts do not a producer, composer, engineer, or arranger make. If you want to discuss software specific features, all DAWs have lively forums. Indeed, Sonar has one of the liveliest. If you want to discuss the general processes and ideas of recording music, it doesn't matter what software you're using. Basically, I can't see a problem here.
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John T
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Re: no respect- new Gearslutz sub forums
2015/10/09 20:14:02
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Paul P
John T
It's a shame OMF development petered out. There really should be a better standard for interchange. But I suppose it's hard to justify development costs on something that confers little or no market advantage.
I worked at the ISO level on interchange formats for office documents and their various types of content. All major companies participated and it would have been easy for any one of them to have their products support the standards. But these standards also petered out due mostly to one or two big 'classic' companies refusing to give up their proprietary hold on their customers. They failed to realize that doing so would have been good for everyone, themselves included. That was 25 years ago and the problem still hasn't been resolved.
Sad if it's also the case in the music/media industry.
Funnily enough, of all the projects from different DAWs I mention above, the one that had the most painless and useful OMF export was the ancient version of Cubase. I think it was Cubase SX or something. So going on for 15 years old in terms of that function. The one that was absolute hell to sort out was coming from a recent version of Logic. So yeah, exactly as you say about "classic companies".
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Anderton
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Re: no respect- new Gearslutz sub forums
2015/10/09 20:16:21
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☄ Helpfulby John T 2015/10/09 20:26:11
yevster
This is how Avid markets its DAW It's branded Pensado's Place. Unless Pensado is part of Avid's marketing team, this is not how Avid markets its DAW. (Granted Avid is a sponsor along with several others, so it could be a "pay to play" situation.) This is how Steinberg markets its DAW It's branded Future Music. I don't think Future Music is the marketing division for Steinberg... Anyway, I actually found the Bluestone interview quite interesting, it's helpful to hear the viewpoints of other SONAR users who are into EDM...especially ones as successful as he is. And Cakewalk has done tutorials in the past. This gives you not only a tutorial on mixing in SONAR, but the files needed to go through the tutorial and learn how to do by yourself instead of just watching someone else say how they do things.
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John T
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Re: no respect- new Gearslutz sub forums
2015/10/09 20:17:19
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Was just about to say the same thing.
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John T
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Re: no respect- new Gearslutz sub forums
2015/10/09 20:19:28
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I suppose you could argue that Avid and Steinberg do better out-reach to the audio geek media. That's not an unreasonable point. There is a wrinkle to this, though, in that, if I remember rightly, Roland took a chunk of Cakewalk marketing staff in the divorce settlement. It'll take time to build that back up.
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John T
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Re: no respect- new Gearslutz sub forums
2015/10/09 20:23:17
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Anderton
It's branded Pensado's Place. Unless Pensado is part of Avid's marketing team, this is not how Avid markets its DAW. (Granted Avid is a sponsor along with several others, so it could be a "pay to play" situation.)
To be absolutely fair to Pensado, yes, they do brandish their sponsors all over the place, but if you watch his thing regularly, especially the Into The Lair segment, he will happily enthuse at length about anything he really thinks is great. Including even freebie plug-ins that couldn't possibly afford a kick-back that'd be worth his while. He's a businessman, of course, but I think he's also a fairly straight shooter.
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