Helpful ReplySampled vs. Modeled Instruments: A personal revelation

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eph221
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Re: Sampled vs. Modeled Instruments: A personal revelation 2017/11/05 20:03:48 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby synkrotron 2017/11/05 20:12:21
Modelled instruments sound FAKE!

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#31
bapu
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Re: Sampled vs. Modeled Instruments: A personal revelation 2017/11/05 20:40:07 (permalink)
Watt dewz FAKEz inztrumentz zound liek?
#32
abacab
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Re: Sampled vs. Modeled Instruments: A personal revelation 2017/11/05 21:30:01 (permalink)
eph221
Modelled instruments sound FAKE!




Yup, especially all those fake virtual analog synths!!!

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#33
Jeff Evans
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Re: Sampled vs. Modeled Instruments: A personal revelation 2017/11/05 21:48:33 (permalink)
eph221
Modelled instruments sound FAKE!

 
This is total rubbish. I have owned many real hardware synths.  All the greats and now I have got an amazing collection of these instruments that are so called modelled and to be honest I think that they sound fabulous.  Jaw dropping in fact with many of them.  A controlled A/B test would leave people like eph221 in the dust.  I have had at times both the hardware and the software and got right into this and that was the conclusion I came out with.  In some cases the modelled software has gone above and beyond the original e.g. Korg Wavestation has been improved since the hardware.  You cannot do that with hardware.  And then there are things like the TubeOhm Juno 106 emulation which sounds surpurb by the way.  Plus they give it an extended panel which blasts the original Juno into some amazing territory.  
 
I think it is not smart to try and compare.  Why does it have to be one or the other.  As an experienced synthesist myself I find the best approach is to take them all in and use all of them.  I have all got all types.  Both modelled and sampled and they all have their strengths and weaknesses.  It is when you start combining different synth engines that the real effect starts to come into play.  A texture that is impossible to get from just one method alone!  Why fight it.  You need lots of things to be able to do it super well. 
 
Take IK Syntronik for example. This plugin is based on a sample library yet it sounds sublime and truely beautiful.  There is almost something about it that sets it apart from even some of the best modelled instruments.  I did not like it at first but now I am a fan.  A big fan.
 
 

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#34
Fleer
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Re: Sampled vs. Modeled Instruments: A personal revelation 2017/11/06 00:30:26 (permalink)
bapu
Watt dewz FAKEz inztrumentz zound liek?


Watt!

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#35
bitflipper
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Re: Sampled vs. Modeled Instruments: A personal revelation 2017/11/06 16:46:28 (permalink)
eph221
Modelled instruments sound FAKE!



Yes, they do. Even when we marvel at how close they get, any piano player could distinguish Pianoteq from a sampled piano in a blind test - when soloed. In a mix, though, a modeled instrument can be indistinguishable from a sampled instrument. Just as sampled instruments can be plenty close enough to a real instrument - in a mix.
 
It comes down to what's known as the "uncanny valley", a term originally applied to human face recognition versus animated faces. No matter how close you get to a match, our brains still register a strong sense of a mismatch, even when we can't specifically pinpoint what's wrong with the fake. Ever notice how no matter how much somebody spent on dentures, you can always spot fake teeth as soon as they speak?


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#36
abacab
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Re: Sampled vs. Modeled Instruments: A personal revelation 2017/11/06 17:15:09 (permalink)
Here is a good side by side solo comparison of various virtual pianos, with the same song played on each piano.
 
In the comments the player indicated that he felt modeled pianos played more like the real thing, while sampled pianos sounded more real.  Makes sense to me.
 
They all sound good to me though!  Maybe it's his playing that counts most.  Maybe the convergence is closer than we think! 
 
Virtual Pianos Comparison! (Keyscape, Ivory, PianoTeq, NI, Motif, Roland, EZkeys, Reason and more)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9Ho4IAP25g
 
0:00 Propellerhead - Radical Piano (Grand) 1:34 Propellerhead - Radical Piano (Upright) 3:07 Toontrack - EZkeys (Grand Piano) 4:40 Synthogy - Ivory II (American Concert D) 6:14 Spectrasonics - Keyscape (Yamaha C7) 7:47 Spectrasonics - Keyscape (Wing Upright) 9:20 Yamaha - Motif XF (Full Concert Grand) 10:54 Yamaha - Motif XF (Yamaha S6) 12:28 Native Instruments - The Gentleman 14:01 Native Instruments - The Giant 15:35 Native Instruments - The Grandeur 17:08 Native Instruments - The Maverick 18:42 Modartt - PianoTeq (D4) 20:15 Modartt - PianoTeq (K2) 21:48 Modartt - PianoTeq (U4) 23:22 Propellerhead - Abbey Road Keyboards (Challen Piano) 24:55 Propellerhead - Abbey Road Keyboards (Mrs. Mills Piano) 26:29 Propellerhead - Reason Pianos (Yamaha C7) 28:02 Propellerhead - Reason Pianos (Steinway K) 29:36 Roland - RD-700SX (Superior Grand) 31:10 Roland - RD-700SX (X-Ultimate) 32:43 IK Multimedia - SampleTank 3 (Grand Piano 1) 34:17 IK Multimedia - SampleTank 3 (Grand Piano 2)

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#37
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