Sampled vs. Modeled Instruments: A personal revelation

File this under: You learn something new every day.

For the longest time I always thought that for the most part sampled instruments were superior to physically modeled instruments.  Two things recently changed that.  First, I read a comment that said PianoTeq (a modeled piano program) was much more realistic sounding than any of the dozen or so sampled piano plugins I currently own.  I didn't believe it at first because I always assumed that sampling instruments are actual sounds of a real instrument, and you can't get better than sampling the real thing.  But I downloaded the trial version of PianoTeq, which features not only acoustic pianos, but electric pianos, and a variety of other stringed instruments, like harps, and even Chromatic percussion instruments xylophones and steel pans.  Modeled instruments also offer a much bigger variety of ways to adjust the sounds, from simple tonal adjustments to creating new and unique sounding instruments.
And secondly, I googled "sampled vs. physically modeled instruments" and was surprised to see how many people prefer modeled instruments over sampled.  It came as a big surprise to me.
My favorite go-to Piano plugin was NI's The Giant.  But a side by side comparison with PianoTeq, left The Giant sounding muddy and unrealistic.

The same is true for the Hammond Organ.  The modeled version of GG Audio's Blue3 is vastly superior to many sampled versions.

One of the few exceptions is drums.  I found that Superior Drummer 3, has much more realistic sounding drums than a modeled drum program. Also many of my sampled guitar plugins sound more realistic than their modeled counterparts.

I don't really understand what goes into creating a modeled instrument (lots of math involved).  I understand sampled instruments, you take microphones and record samples of each note or drum, and sample it a dozen times at different velocities and setups.
But the more realistic and the bigger variety of sounds you get from sampled instruments, the bigger the size of the program.
Superior Drummer 3 sounds excellent but it's 230 GB in size.  But it's the most realistic sounding drum software I've heard.

So I guess depending on the instrument many physically modeled programs do sound a lot better than their sampled counterparts.  And what I took away from all of this is, 1-You can learn something new every day and,  2-It pays to do research, even when you think you know it all!

I know I really like AAS stuff, modeled. And I loved NI B4II, modeled. Though I have some sampled bass guitar libraries I am curious about IK's Modo Bass. But I'm a guitar player, mostly, so what do I know?
Great thread though, and I will be glad to hear what others have to say.

I think it all depends. Comparing a dull sample based VST instrument with a great modeled one is like, well, comparing a great sample based VST instrument with a dull modeled one. Neither all sampled based nor modeled based instruments are created equal.

I'm sure that sampled stuff sounds great. What puts me off is the amount of stuff I have to download to keep up and the cost...
 
The only soft synth that I use that uses any kind of sample is Absynth.
 
Oh, and Iris 2, of course, but I only use my own samples in that, so it doesn't count...
 
Oops... Forgot about Battery and BDF eco but since going all beat-less ambient I don't use them anymore.

I believe that we will eventually abandon the idea of sampled instruments entirely, at least as they're approached today. Remember that samples were born out of frustration with the limitations of even the most complex synthesizers, which ultimately offer only a small subset of the many variables that comprise a musical instrument's timbre and behavior. I've always felt they were an interim solution.
 
In the 60's, students at MIT replicated the sound of a grand piano so believable that when played behind a curtain alongside a real piano, audiences could not distinguish between them. However, that experiment required no less than 80 oscillators and could play only one note. Not one not at a time, one note, period. It simultaneously demonstrated both the potential of synthesis as well as the enormity of the task. I wonder if anybody then considered the possibility of what could be done with unlimited virtual oscillators created completely in software.
 
Of course, we're not quite there yet. We can't yet create an unlimited number of oscillators with today's consumer computers. But projecting the trajectory of computer development over the past 60 years into the coming decades, it's clearly just a matter of time.
 
And it's not just hardware holding us back. Equally important is software modeling technology, but it'll get there, too. This morning it snowed here in Seattle. Most would not have seen it coming, but the National Weather Service's models did, and correctly predicted it. Now if you and I could only afford the computers that the NWS has...

My favorite modeled instruments are my JTV-69 guitar and my Variax Bass. The Alembic bass in Variax is damn close to my real Alembic bass.
 
Oh snap, I just gave away that I own an Alembic bass.

jude77
Lee, I checked out your music.  You got some good stuff there.  Vocally, I think you sound a bit like Bowie or Ian Hunter.

Thanks Jude, most of the time my vocals remind people of Dylan, or that east coast nasal sound.  Sometimes people say Tom Petty too.  But I never heard any Bowie or Ian Hunter comparisons before.  I guess that's a step up from Dylan, vocal-wise. ;)

bapu

eph221

gswitz
People who think they know it all really annoy those of us who do.

How arrogant.

Only someone who thinks he knows it would say that.

I never assume to know it all, but am always pleasantly surprised when my previous assumptions turn out to be wrong (such as this sampled vs. modeled comparison).  Which tells me that I don't know as much as I think I do.

But learning about new plugins and virtual instruments equals spending more money.  And as it stands right now, if all my virtual instruments were the "real thing", I could probably fill a small warehouse of instruments and efx units.
 

Fleer
Pianoteq Blüthner, GG-Audio Blue3 and AAS Lounge Lizard 4, all models made in heaven.

I'm going to be buying PianoTeq soon, but it's a tough decision on what packs to get.
I do like the Bluthner piano, but also like the K2 pack.
I also like many of the other non-acoustic piano packs like the Electric Vintage Tines.
Any suggestions on which packs I should start off with?

(And I already have Blue3 and Lounge Lizard, love them both)

Fleer
I chose the Electrics pack (Vintage Tines and Hohners) with Pianoteq Standard and added Blüthner plus Steinway D. The electrics are sublime models and I consider Blüthner to be the warmest grand they have. It’s authorized by Blüthner as are the Steinway models (by Steinway of course). Also check the (authorized) Grotrian and the Steinway B. Finally, the K2 is an imaginary concoction but a very good one at that.

Good choices, thanks.  And yeah, I read that the K2 is not a real piano, but I think it's one of the best sounding packs.  Everyone has different tastes on how they like their pianos to sound.  And the K2 pack has a clear, crisp tone.  It's great for rock songs.

I have a modeled violin in Reaktor somewhere that sounds better than most violin samples I own. I also find myself using Prism for stringed instrument sounds more often than using samples. I don't know if they sound more "authentic" so much as that they have more presence due to the fact that you're not losing anything in the sound through deficiencies in the the recording technique. The whole mic part of the chain has been bypassed so you get a much cleaner sound that makes the instrument sound more solid.

That would probably be the one they call the YC5 Rock Piano, which they describe as a "well-known Japanese grand". What else could they be referring to? The AKAI isn't exactly a rock 'n roll staple.