quantumeffect
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Serious Drum Solo Question
Please no oxymoron jokes. I am going to be doing a set of British Invasion tunes (e.g. Dave Clark Five) and was thinking about structuring a short drum break … but I want it to be consistent with the vibe of the era and preferably early in the era. Can anybody make some listening suggestions (other than Wipeout).
Dave 8.5 PE 64, i7 Studio Cat, Delta 1010, GMS and Ludwig Drums, Paiste Cymbals "Everyone knows rock n' roll attained perfection in 1974. It's a scientific fact." H. Simpson "His chops are too righteous." Plankton during Sponge Bob's guitar solo
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Jonbouy
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Re:Serious Drum Solo Question
September 08, 11 11:18 AM
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quantumeffect Please no oxymoron jokes. I am going to be doing a set of British Invasion tunes (e.g. Dave Clark Five) and was thinking about structuring a short drum break … but I want it to be consistent with the vibe of the era and preferably early in the era. Can anybody make some listening suggestions (other than Wipeout). Dave Clark couldn't manage a drum break. Listening suggestions... hmmm... Have you tried rolling a bowling ball tied to a hat stand down the stairs? Other than that Kenney Jones during the Small Faces era would be my pick of the crop. This one should cover the ground you are after. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zkAgrMfoc4
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spacey
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Re:Serious Drum Solo Question
September 08, 11 11:26 AM
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Why not one of the first- Toad-Cream Oh...can't forget- Cozy Powells' Dancin' With The Devil And my favorite- "The Mule" -DP Maybe "era" is error for me though.
post edited by spacey - September 08, 11 11:34 AM
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Bub
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Re:Serious Drum Solo Question
September 08, 11 11:33 AM
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Session Drummer 3 has some nice patterns.
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batsbrew
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Re:Serious Drum Solo Question
September 08, 11 11:35 AM
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the mule rocks.... best musical solo i've ever heard live, was done by Rod Morgenstein at a dixie dregs concert. if you're talking about a short, exciting drum solo, just find a few favorite fills, but play them in the groove of the song, as if folks were dancing, and you don't want them to stop. make it syncopated, but keep the primary groove going. that's about as good as it gets, because NO ONE wants to hear a drum solo. except another drummer.
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DW_Mike
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Re:Serious Drum Solo Question
September 08, 11 11:51 AM
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NO ONE wants to hear a drum solo. except another drummer. Well that's just not true. I'm a drummer and am not really big on solo's. There is a time and place, like at seminars or conventions but for the most part I'd rather hear the whole band. If a band does decide they want a drum solo I feel the short sweet ones are better then the 20 min one. I believe that they're used so the rest of the band can go take a smoke break and give they're strumming hand a rest. Unless you're a guitar player you'll never fully understand just how much energy is exerted by holding on to a plastic pick and moving your arm. Once again, leave it to the drummer to carry the band. Mike
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bapu
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Re:Serious Drum Solo Question
September 08, 11 11:56 AM
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That drum solo by Ringo Starr on Abbey Road when he was with that little band The Beatles (I think Mooch likes one of their songs).
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Jonbouy
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Re:Serious Drum Solo Question
September 08, 11 12:05 AM
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that's about as good as it gets, because NO ONE wants to hear a drum solo. except another drummer. Heheh Similar to a guitar solo then. Except another guitarist will only take an interest in the other guys solo so he can tell him how he would have played it better... btw IMO 'Toad' is that bowling ball going downstairs tied to a hatstand I mentioned earlier... Ooops, I must have missed the bit the OP said about no oxymoron jokes.
post edited by Jonbouy - September 08, 11 12:13 AM
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Bub
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Re:Serious Drum Solo Question
September 08, 11 12:57 AM
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batsbrew that's about as good as it gets, because NO ONE wants to hear a drum solo. except another drummer. Or a bass solo. Gah! Those are the worst! Especially in Am.
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UbiquitousBubba
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Re:Serious Drum Solo Question
September 08, 11 1:04 PM
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Come on! The bass solo is that part of the show where the crowd is surprised to learn that that guy was not just a cardboard cutout. (or was he?)
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quantumeffect
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Re:Serious Drum Solo Question
September 08, 11 1:11 PM
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Yea, there’s not much from ’64 +/- a year and I want to avoid the Baker / Bohnam licks (I guess that would be like ’67 onward). I want to avoid Baker’s rudimental stuff and Bohnam’s power triplets. The Kenny Jones stuff is stylistically, probably the closet thing. I was thinking that I could come off of the outro of “For Your Love” and emulate the 16 th note roll of the bongos on the rim of the tom and then drop into a four on the floor at that tempo and then just do some syncopated yet simple stuff around the toms There is a time and place, like at seminars or conventions I have taken my wife to all sorts of drum related events (bless her heart) including the Modern Drum Festival (When it was still held at Montclair State College). She took a break during one of the performances at the MD festival so, I was left to watch by myself for a while. In that time Ginger Baker Came out and started his solo … soon after that my wife returned (having missed Ginger's introduction). She sat there for a couple of minutes watching (not knowing who it was) then leaned over and yelled in my ear … “why are they letting a homeless guy play the drums” ….
Dave 8.5 PE 64, i7 Studio Cat, Delta 1010, GMS and Ludwig Drums, Paiste Cymbals "Everyone knows rock n' roll attained perfection in 1974. It's a scientific fact." H. Simpson "His chops are too righteous." Plankton during Sponge Bob's guitar solo
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spacey
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Re:Serious Drum Solo Question
September 08, 11 1:20 PM
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Maybe consider Buddy Rich then.
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batsbrew
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Re:Serious Drum Solo Question
September 08, 11 2:02 PM
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YEAH, i've sat thru a few buddy rich performances, and always wanted to hear more. so, there are exceptions to the rule, but not many.
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spacey
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Re:Serious Drum Solo Question
September 08, 11 2:21 PM
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Bat I thought you were just joking about the drum solos...LOL... I gotta tell ya- In the mid seventies I took a sit-down gig (3piece) and the drummer was recovering from a leg injury -his group was doing USO tours with Blood,Sweat and Tears and when they all went to the front of the stage for their little dance thing the stage collapsed....anyway the guy was amazing! He would do a 30 minute bit and it was friggin' insane...he was just pure entertainment....after two weeks there were people coming from states around to check him out. So yes lol...exceptions.
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Glyn Barnes
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Re:Serious Drum Solo Question
September 08, 11 3:40 PM
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batsbrew NO ONE wants to hear a drum solo. except another drummer. I disagree. A good case in point was Gilson Lavis's long and exciting drum solo when playing with the Jools Holland R&B Orchestra at the Dubai Jazz festival last year. If you had been in that crowd you would have known how many people appreciate a good drum solo,
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jamesg1213
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Re:Serious Drum Solo Question
September 08, 11 3:48 PM
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Jyemz Thrombold's Patented Brisk Weather Pantaloonettes with Inclementometer
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quantumeffect
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Re:Serious Drum Solo Question
September 08, 11 9:47 PM
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Dave 8.5 PE 64, i7 Studio Cat, Delta 1010, GMS and Ludwig Drums, Paiste Cymbals "Everyone knows rock n' roll attained perfection in 1974. It's a scientific fact." H. Simpson "His chops are too righteous." Plankton during Sponge Bob's guitar solo
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Jonbouy
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Re:Serious Drum Solo Question
September 08, 11 11:12 PM
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A search of "Drum solo British invasion" doesn't yield too many results. I'm not surprised being as 'British Invasion' is such a horse-cack tag. Short of the obvious Stones and Beatles most of the British pop of the early 60's wasn't picked up stateside, it's just a bit of rose tinted selective revisionism that's been invented fairly recently in order to market some back-catalogue. You have to remember that what they now like to call the 'British Invasion' comprised of some very amateurish, naive kids in village halls trying to sound like the seasoned American and predominantly blues players, that influenced all of them. The only invention that came out of it was that they made up the bits they couldn't emulate properly. Dave Clark was a bit of a joke musically here even from the outset, even if he had enough savvy to be able market internationally, it was only when good British bands started emerging from the derivative wannabe soup, bands like the Kinks and the Small Faces for example, that a true identity started to emerge and even started to influence the Stones and the Beatles themselves away from the bland mindless pop dittys they had been churning out during the early 60's. I mean, 'I wanna hold your hand' for pity's sake. These guys needed to grow up and grow up fast. It wasn't until they did that the true 'British Invasion' began, during the late 60's and early 70's with the massive inter-continental logistical events staged by the likes of yer Led Zeps, Floyds etc. all of course leading to the attainment of rock 'n' roll perfection in '74.
post edited by Jonbouy - September 08, 11 11:54 PM
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bapu
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Re:Serious Drum Solo Question
September 09, 11 0:17 PM
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Jonbouy The only invention that came out of it was that they made up the bits they couldn't emulate properly.
See I learned from the best of them.
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Jonbouy
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Re:Serious Drum Solo Question
September 09, 11 6:15 AM
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bapu Jonbouy The only invention that came out of it was that they made up the bits they couldn't emulate properly. See I learned from the best of them. (or did you?) One other thought that I think helped cause the so-called Brit invasion. Bands had to cut their teeth in some pretty tough clubs and amass a big following due to the fact they were worth watching before any A&R company rep would turn up to see them. The quality control aspect that provided also started to diminish when record company execs decided to put together theoritical super groups (like Cream), where although the individuals had risen through the ranks the resultant 'act' hadn''t. A good read on the cyclic nature of all this is George Melly's 'Revolt into Style'. Once the 'style' is in place and identifiable, by then the original 'revolt' that fueled it has often burned out and become tame. Hence further revolt is required which in turn results in something that Grandma ends up rocking in her chair too. IOW if you truly want to be creative, remain revolting.
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mgh
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Re:Serious Drum Solo Question
September 09, 11 8:30 AM
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Beagle
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Re:Serious Drum Solo Question
September 09, 11 9:23 AM
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batsbrew that's about as good as it gets, because NO ONE wants to hear a drum solo. except another drummer. I have to disagree with this as well. there are 2 concerts that I have attended which will forever stand out in my memory because of the drum solos. In fact, I remember hearing great guitar, bass and key solos in concerts, but none of them stand out like the 2 drum solos I'm talking about. one of them was Genesis in 1987 in Dallas. During the drum solo, both Collins and Chester Thompson played a drum solo (and now I don't even remember the song they played it on), but the 2 drum stages rotated into the air with them on them playing together. it was incredible. the other was more recent. I saw Yes and Asia in Ft. Worth in 2009. Carl Palmer was the star of the show, IMO. not only is he a skilled drummer, but he's a showman. in fact, he was a much better showman than "frontman" John Wetton. I was not really impressed with Wetton at all. Palmer was fantastic!
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bapu
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Re:Serious Drum Solo Question
September 09, 11 10:05 AM
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Jonbouy bapu Jonbouy The only invention that came out of it was that they made up the bits they couldn't emulate properly. See I learned from the best of them. (or did you?) required which in turn results in something that Grandma ends up rocking in her chair too. IOW if you truly want to be creative, remain revolting. Simples enough even I can handle that.
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Karyn
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Re:Serious Drum Solo Question
September 09, 11 10:38 AM
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The long, drawn out guitar solo (often on acoustic) is the point in the show where the drumist gets a chance to nip backstage to bum a fag off one of the roadies. The drum solo is the point is the show where the rest of the band goes backstage to appologise to the roadie for the drumists behaviour. The bass solo is the point in the show where the audience get a chance to visit the toilets, queue for warm beer and go outside for a smoke. The FOH eng gets TWO solos. All the good CDs before the bands intro tape, and then the 'Get the F*&% out of my venue' CDs at the end...
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UbiquitousBubba
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Re:Serious Drum Solo Question
September 09, 11 10:50 AM
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Don't forget the cowbell solo. It always leaves you wanting more...
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quantumeffect
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Re:Serious Drum Solo Question
September 10, 11 9:40 PM
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I'm not surprised being as 'British Invasion' is such a horse-cack tag. Short of the obvious Stones and Beatles most of the British pop of the early 60's wasn't picked up stateside, it's just a bit of rose tinted selective revisionism that's been invented fairly recently in order to market some back-catalogue. You have to remember that what they now like to call the 'British Invasion' comprised of some very amateurish, naive kids in village halls trying to sound like the seasoned American and predominantly blues players, that influenced all of them. The only invention that came out of it was that they made up the bits they couldn't emulate properly. Dave Clark was a bit of a joke musically here even from the outset, even if he had enough savvy to be able market internationally, it was only when good British bands started emerging from the derivative wannabe soup, bands like the Kinks and the Small Faces for example, that a true identity started to emerge and even started to influence the Stones and the Beatles themselves away from the bland mindless pop dittys they had been churning out during the early 60's. I mean, 'I wanna hold your hand' for pity's sake. These guys needed to grow up and grow up fast. It wasn't until they did that the true 'British Invasion' began, during the late 60's and early 70's with the massive inter-continental logistical events staged by the likes of yer Led Zeps, Floyds etc. all of course leading to the attainment of rock 'n' roll perfection in '74. Interesting analysis and an interesting time in drumming. I was born in ‘64 and spent my coming of age yeas listening to Ray Stevens’ “The Streak” , The Bay City Rollers’ “S-A-T-U-R-D-A-Y Night” and C.W. McCall’s “Convoy” … so I just don’t have the perspective. Here is one from ’65 that is a take on Louie Bellson’s classic Skin Deep “Skin Deep” with Bobby Graham … definitely a rock and roll drum solo by a studio drummer (for the Dave Clark Five) that helped define the sound of that “era”. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUnWr19BzIU and for comparative purposes here is the Louie Bellson version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBQWaCLlK9Y
Dave 8.5 PE 64, i7 Studio Cat, Delta 1010, GMS and Ludwig Drums, Paiste Cymbals "Everyone knows rock n' roll attained perfection in 1974. It's a scientific fact." H. Simpson "His chops are too righteous." Plankton during Sponge Bob's guitar solo
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Jonbouy
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Re:Serious Drum Solo Question
September 10, 11 10:09 PM
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Yup, Bobby Graham was the man of the sixties, funnily enough he played on many of the Kinks records I mentioned. Clem Cattini was the seventies equivalent playing on 1000's of records. Anything by either of those two will put you in the 'British Pop' frame. These two probably have spent more time in the UK charts and on more records than anyone.
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quantumeffect
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Re:Serious Drum Solo Question
October 12, 11 11:52 PM
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I ended up using bapu's suggestion "The End". http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_player.cfm?songid=11130708&q=hi&newref=1 It was a battle of the bands, and we had 4 rehearsals to put a band ... and a set together of songs picked for us by the organizers. The 5 guys in the band had never met so it was pretty rough but a lot of fun. I stuck the drum break between the Yard Birds and the Stones (if that makes any sense). My intention was to do it a bit faster than the A.R. version, probably about 126 bpm but I came barreling into it at about 140 bpm. Just before I started it I was rolling away on a high pitched roto-tom trying to simulate the bongoes but it wasn't mic'ed so it sounds like I stopped and then started ... also, they were giving out miniature cowbells right in fron t of where I put the zoom recorder.
Dave 8.5 PE 64, i7 Studio Cat, Delta 1010, GMS and Ludwig Drums, Paiste Cymbals "Everyone knows rock n' roll attained perfection in 1974. It's a scientific fact." H. Simpson "His chops are too righteous." Plankton during Sponge Bob's guitar solo
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bapu
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Re:Serious Drum Solo Question
October 13, 11 0:52 PM
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craigb
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Re:Serious Drum Solo Question
October 13, 11 4:13 AM
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quantumeffect Please no oxymoron jokes. What, in the Coffee House??? Ok, the best drummer (really) that I can remember from around that time (i.e., 1965-ish) was actually Jerry Lewis (yes, the guy from the Telethons). Here's a cool drum solo battle that's funny and pretty dang good between him and Buddy Rich (Jerry plays a good host and doesn't show what he can do at all). Maybe you can steal some of the style? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=141o_jwG7cA (P.S., Terry Bozzio eat your heart out with Jerry's drum set! LOL!  )
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