chuckebaby
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Re:Seriously - no Save, Cut, Paste, Undo buttons.. Is this for real ? Just say NOOOOO
2013/03/24 19:04:15
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vintagevibe
chuckebaby
I honestly could not even imagine what it would be like to be pressing icons in the toolbar to cut/copy/paste.
I mean I know I did once apon a time, but that seems like black and white film days.
like 1950's technology.
sorry nothing against the original poster here.
but its soooo much easier to use keyboard shortcuts to do all this rather than running my mouse all over the screen clicking on icons 1000 times a project.
That's why we need customizable toolbars. So you can have what you like and other people can have what they like. What works best for you may not be best for others. Unless you think everyone should be forced to work your way because it's the right way.
vintage, weren't you just asking for an undo button on the toolbar ? I say no more..lol (whispering) Control + Z buddy :) you don't have to work like me, you can work anyway you enjoy. but guess what, your icons are not there, so its either use the toolbar or the shortcuts? whats it going to be? then again you could keep complaining and hope that cakewalk hears you. but I doubt they will go backwords in their technology. here you said: "That's why we need customizable toolbars. So you can have what you like and other people can have what they like." sorry man, this isn't burger king, where we do it your way". its software, theres a big difference. I just don't get it, sonar comes with functions and rather than learn them you want to come in the forum and complain about how everyone should be able to have their own functions, that in itself is a joke.
post edited by chuckebaby - 2013/03/24 19:55:43
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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Keni
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Re:Seriously - no Save, Cut, Paste, Undo buttons.. Is this for real ? Just say NOOOOO
2013/03/24 19:42:10
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I too have found less need for the buttons than at X1's first release... I depended on Sonar Plus at the time...
I now use Duckbar for a custom toolbar.. It works just fine and tho it also harbors the abilities to extensively modify the look of Sonar which does alter certain aspects of the file... Using only the toolbar does not... It simply ads a sticky toolbar on top of Sonar wherever you place it... I find the empty portion of the skylight frame perfect for this...
So if you really want a free customizable toolbar... Why not check it out?
Keni
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chuckebaby
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Re:Seriously - no Save, Cut, Paste, Undo buttons.. Is this for real ? Just say NOOOOO
2013/03/24 19:58:36
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Keni
I too have found less need for the buttons than at X1's first release... I depended on Sonar Plus at the time...
I now use Duckbar for a custom toolbar.. It works just fine and tho it also harbors the abilities to extensively modify the look of Sonar which does alter certain aspects of the file... Using only the toolbar does not... It simply ads a sticky toolbar on top of Sonar wherever you place it... I find the empty portion of the skylight frame perfect for this...
So if you really want a free customizable toolbar... Why not check it out?
Keni
+1 I totally agree, I think its a nice mod myself. I used it for awhile as well back when it was sonar plus.
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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randyman
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Re:Seriously - no Save, Cut, Paste, Undo buttons.. Is this for real ? Just say NOOOOO
2013/03/24 20:36:14
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Bristol_Jonesey
Save = Ctrl + s
Cut = Ctrl + x
Copy = Ctrl + c
Paste = Ctrl + V
ALL of these are standard with any Windows programs
Undo = Ctrl + z
Redo = Ctrl + Shift + z
And more importantly have been so since Windows first hit the market. And yet really established with CP/M and WordStar. Nearly every kb shortcut common today was established then (early 80's). And still infinitely faster than a mouse mouse/click event.
A rack of noisemakers is not a definitive substitute for creativity. (though it does seem to help) what I spend my lunch time doing: (don't laugh - its just for fun!) www.soundclick.com/rnewburn
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backwoods
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Re:Seriously - no Save, Cut, Paste, Undo buttons.. Is this for real ? Just say NOOOOO
2013/03/24 20:39:48
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Yes, heaps quicker. And you don't have to look at the keyboard either.
Why should Cakewalk need to cater to noobs?
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icontakt
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Re:Seriously - no Save, Cut, Paste, Undo buttons.. Is this for real ? Just say NOOOOO
2013/03/24 21:31:30
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I'm a heavy shortcut key user so I really wish there were more shortcut key assignable commands, for example marker positions (first marker for Num 1, second marker for Num 2...I do this in another daw and it's soooo handy), [Bounce to Clips], [Unsolo All Tracks], [Lock Position]&[Lock Data] separately, [Controller/Surface Properties], etc. But I'm not against the idea of adding the buttons the OP is requesting to Control Bar, because users can choose to hide them (it'd drive me crazy if they were going to add them to one of existing modules I use, though). And Control Bar would be much slimmer if users could hide and change the positions of the buttons/rows. In my case, I don't need numeric buttons on Screenset module, buttons and the fader on the left side of Transport module, and so on. If the above shortcut keys were available and the buttons/rows were hidable/changeable, all I need to display would be Event Inspector module, Performance module, Snap module, the pull-down for the screenset menu, and the right side of Transport bar. And the reason why I think Duckbar isn't the solution for everyone is....there are many Sonar users all over the world who cannot read English 
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vintagevibe
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Re:Seriously - no Save, Cut, Paste, Undo buttons.. Is this for real ? Just say NOOOOO
2013/03/24 21:39:06
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That's why we need customizable toolbars. So you can have what you like and other people can have what they like. What works best for you may not be best for others. Unless you think everyone should be forced to work your way because it's the right way.
vintage, weren't you just asking for an undo button on the toolbar ?
I say no more..lol
Note sure what your point is. I'm asking for the option.
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vintagevibe
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Re:Seriously - no Save, Cut, Paste, Undo buttons.. Is this for real ? Just say NOOOOO
2013/03/24 21:43:37
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backwoods
Yes, heaps quicker. And you don't have to look at the keyboard either.
Why should Cakewalk need to cater to noobs?
I work faster when I avoid the keyboard and keep looking at the screen or instrument. My hands are usually on instruments. My track ball can be anywhere I need it at any time . What does this have to do with "noobs"?
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mmorgan
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Re:Seriously - no Save, Cut, Paste, Undo buttons.. Is this for real ? Just say NOOOOO
2013/03/24 21:44:55
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I live in text windows all day long and have a heavy palette of short-cuts at my fingertips so to employ them in Sonar for me is a snap. Just last week I saw a reference in a DAW manufacturers video that stated that studies have shown that keyboard shortcuts can increase your efficiency by 400%. That said, I fully support my Sonar family in their desire for a tool bar button for save, or say a panel in the CB of customizable buttons. I understand that Cakewalk uses pictures instead of dynamic graphics for it's interface but seriously I don't see why this seems so difficult...assuming of course that those who want it have submitted a FR. Now can we talk about real custom colors please? Regards
Mike Win8(64), Sonar X3e(64) w/ RME Fireface UFX.
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vintagevibe
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Re:Seriously - no Save, Cut, Paste, Undo buttons.. Is this for real ? Just say NOOOOO
2013/03/24 21:49:02
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mmorgan
I live in text windows all day long and have a heavy palette of short-cuts at my fingertips so to employ them in Sonar for me is a snap. Just last week I saw a reference in a DAW manufacturers video that stated that studies have shown that keyboard shortcuts can increase your efficiency by 400%.
Regards
Not with a guitar in your hands or at an E-Drum kit beside you desk.
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stevec
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Re:Seriously - no Save, Cut, Paste, Undo buttons.. Is this for real ? Just say NOOOOO
2013/03/24 22:08:09
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Not with a guitar in your hands or at an E-Drum kit beside you desk. I still tend to use the standard Windows shortcuts even when playing guitar or keyboards (which are to my right). Most fall well under the left hand. But I'm with mmorgan - I would still like a custom toolbar. Not so much for the standard Windows commands, but to consolidate the icons I do use without having to change the module order to access them. So personal preferences aside, it would be useful for many people even if it is for different reasons.
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John
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Re:Seriously - no Save, Cut, Paste, Undo buttons.. Is this for real ? Just say NOOOOO
2013/03/24 22:14:45
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vintagevibe
mmorgan
I live in text windows all day long and have a heavy palette of short-cuts at my fingertips so to employ them in Sonar for me is a snap. Just last week I saw a reference in a DAW manufacturers video that stated that studies have shown that keyboard shortcuts can increase your efficiency by 400%.
Regards
Not with a guitar in your hands or at an E-Drum kit beside you desk.
I'm not sure I understand this argument. If you are playing a keyboard or any instrument you are most likely recording. What is a button going to give you when what you really should be doing is making sure you get the recording recorded? In other words don't screw with the DAW when in record mode. I also have a Mackie Control with two foot switches with long cables. One is for Stop and Play the other is for record. Really the only controls you need to control while recording are the transport controls. Unless you just like to have your hands on a keyboard all the time or holding a guitar. There is not much you should be doing while recording except playing the instrument.
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vintagevibe
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Re:Seriously - no Save, Cut, Paste, Undo buttons.. Is this for real ? Just say NOOOOO
2013/03/24 23:48:56
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John
vintagevibe
mmorgan
I live in text windows all day long and have a heavy palette of short-cuts at my fingertips so to employ them in Sonar for me is a snap. Just last week I saw a reference in a DAW manufacturers video that stated that studies have shown that keyboard shortcuts can increase your efficiency by 400%.
Regards
Not with a guitar in your hands or at an E-Drum kit beside you desk.
There is not much you should be doing while recording except playing the instrument.
Well lets see... start recording stop recording undo redo mute solo change punch-in area adjust levels... I do all of the above and more with a guitar or bass in my hand or at a drum kit. A trackball is a FAR better solution than a keyboard for me but no one is trying to make you use one.
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mmorgan
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Re:Seriously - no Save, Cut, Paste, Undo buttons.. Is this for real ? Just say NOOOOO
2013/03/25 11:18:42
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Not with a guitar in your hands or at an E-Drum kit beside you desk. I often have a guitar in my hands (see avatar at left). But, as previously stated, for me keyboard shortcuts work very well (even the triads [ctrl-shift-z]). And as also previously stated: For my Sonar family members I vote for a customizable toolbar...that I can hide . Regards
Mike Win8(64), Sonar X3e(64) w/ RME Fireface UFX.
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jscomposer
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Re:Seriously - no Save, Cut, Paste, Undo buttons.. Is this for real ? Just say NOOOOO
2013/03/25 11:54:56
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+1 on the customized control bar. I guess I'm old school, but I used the save icon a lot. I personally hate keyboard shortcuts, it's a PITA with one hand. Cakewalk is so gung-ho on making X2 look pretty, but has left the real issues in the dust.
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Glyn Barnes
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Re:Seriously - no Save, Cut, Paste, Undo buttons.. Is this for real ? Just say NOOOOO
2013/03/25 12:09:44
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mmorgan
Just last week I saw a reference in a DAW manufacturers video that stated that studies have shown that keyboard shortcuts can increase your efficiency by 400%.
How do they work that out? Moving a mouse to a button (or even an item in a menu) and clicking is hardly the major time consuming operation, a short cut is faster assuming your hands are already at the keyboard. But even if its four times faster the minuscule amount of time saved would only be significant in continuously repeated operations where you do not need to think about what your are doing. Most of the time taken in, say, a cut and past operation is thinking what you want to past, where you want to paste it and why. Shortcuts may be more efficient, but a 400% increase in efficiency come on, (the statement must be out of context). Does anybody really think you can record a song in a quarter of the time using short cuts over a mouse? If the statement was save 5 to10 minutes in a working day it would probably be closer to the truth. IMHO both the case for the advantages of short cuts and for their inconveniences are being overstated in this thread.
post edited by Glyn Barnes - 2013/03/25 12:16:40
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Seriously - no Save, Cut, Paste, Undo buttons.. Is this for real ? Just say NOOOOO
2013/03/25 12:12:30
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jscomposer
+1 on the customized control bar. I guess I'm old school, but I used the save icon a lot. I personally hate keyboard shortcuts, it's a PITA with one hand. Cakewalk is so gung-ho on making X2 look pretty, but has left the real issues in the dust.
I respectfully disagree. Most 2 fingered shortcuts are possible using just one hand, and several 3 fingered options as well. Any user who remembers back as far as 8.5.3 should recall that Cakewalk asked us - the users, what the main thrust of the new version should take. The vast majority of people who took the time & trouble to post their responses said a similar thing - less plugins, focus on the GUI which was creaking severely.
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Keni
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Re:Seriously - no Save, Cut, Paste, Undo buttons.. Is this for real ? Just say NOOOOO
2013/03/25 12:24:51
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Jlien X
And the reason why I think Duckbar isn't the solution for everyone is....there are many Sonar users all over the world who cannot read English
Just as a point of info... Duckbar's author is (I believe) German and he does have it available in a few (?) other languages... Keni
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Keni
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Re:Seriously - no Save, Cut, Paste, Undo buttons.. Is this for real ? Just say NOOOOO
2013/03/25 12:27:52
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mmorgan
Now can we talk about real custom colors please?
Regards
Hi Mike... Have you checked out Duckbar? It offers more control over colors and even graphic imagery that Sonar had even in it's grand old days pre-X... Keni
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Keni
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Re:Seriously - no Save, Cut, Paste, Undo buttons.. Is this for real ? Just say NOOOOO
2013/03/25 12:46:13
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jscomposer
+1 on the customized control bar. I guess I'm old school, but I used the save icon a lot. I personally hate keyboard shortcuts, it's a PITA with one hand. Cakewalk is so gung-ho on making X2 look pretty, but has left the real issues in the dust.
I agree with you 100% I was far happier with the old interface in 8.5.3 as I find all the larger icons and widgets along with larger gaps between and larger groupings of buttons/widget (I never use the read/write automation buttons but I do use the freeze and archive buttons constantly.... So I must have the R/W buttons taking up important space)... I'm good with keyboard shortcuts, but not exclusive! there are times when the mouse is easier to access... as many have mentioned sometimes hands are busy elsewhere or the keyboard might be harder to access... The "clean-up" in the name of our "cluttered" interface was a wrong direction for me... I had no problem with all my tools always exposed and I could hide as many or as few as I wanted... Now I'm forced to use the keyboard shortcuts which sometimes are a blessing and other times a curse.... Then along comes Duckbar and at least returns some of the convenience with a customizable toolbar... BTW, it is a totally separate program and not written by the same programmer who wrote Sonar Plus... So I have much of the needed buttons back as well as some we didn't have even with Sonar Plus and the development of this add-on program continues to improve and grow more powerful... I highly recommend it for any users missing the customizable toolbar approach as well as the custom coloring we lost... Keni
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Keni
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Re:Seriously - no Save, Cut, Paste, Undo buttons.. Is this for real ? Just say NOOOOO
2013/03/25 12:50:48
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Bristol_Jonesey
jscomposer
+1 on the customized control bar. I guess I'm old school, but I used the save icon a lot. I personally hate keyboard shortcuts, it's a PITA with one hand. Cakewalk is so gung-ho on making X2 look pretty, but has left the real issues in the dust.
I respectfully disagree.
Most 2 fingered shortcuts are possible using just one hand, and several 3 fingered options as well.
Any user who remembers back as far as 8.5.3 should recall that Cakewalk asked us - the users, what the main thrust of the new version should take.
The vast majority of people who took the time & trouble to post their responses said a similar thing - less plugins, focus on the GUI which was creaking severely.
Yes... Focusing on the gui instead of plugins is still needed! Now they've taken some steps forward and some steps back in the process... I hope they don't think that bought them more time/purchases as they now must re-build so much... Most of us buy the next upgrade regardless! I believe that much of what we're currently dealing with was created in prep (and now function) to deal with the touchscreen issues which while looking very pretty and Cakewalk won the race to be first, is far less important to me than non-touch operation as I can't imagine when I'll be able to afford a touchscreen.... Keni
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markyzno
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Re:Seriously - no Save, Cut, Paste, Undo buttons.. Is this for real ? Just say NOOOOO
2013/03/25 13:04:54
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I didnt even notice the buttons were missing!
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mmorgan
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Re:Seriously - no Save, Cut, Paste, Undo buttons.. Is this for real ? Just say NOOOOO
2013/03/25 13:14:35
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Glyn Barnes
mmorgan
Just last week I saw a reference in a DAW manufacturers video that stated that studies have shown that keyboard shortcuts can increase your efficiency by 400%.
How do they work that out? ...
Shortcuts may be more efficient, but a 400% increase in efficiency come on, (the statement must be out of context).
The statement came during a portion of the tutorial where they were explaining the ability to map a great many (I didn't count but a quick look would be over 50) of the menu commands to user defined keyboard shortcuts. I don't know how they work it out, I didn't conduct the study It struck me because earlier in the day I had been trying to explain to my boss how inefficient his use of keyboard/mouse was. In his case he would start typing into a drop down list (with over 2000 entries); the list would start navigating based on his entry and get to the item he wanted where upon he would stop typing and reach over for his mouse to click the item he wanted. I merely pointed out that all he had to do was press <enter>. Of course he claimed that pressing <enter> wasn't intuitive and continues to reach for his mouse. Once again: I vote for a customizable toolbar for those that want it. But I would also point out that they may get one quicker if they submit a FR. Regards,
Mike Win8(64), Sonar X3e(64) w/ RME Fireface UFX.
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mmorgan
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Re:Seriously - no Save, Cut, Paste, Undo buttons.. Is this for real ? Just say NOOOOO
2013/03/25 13:18:58
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Hi Mike... Have you checked out Duckbar? It offers more control over colors and even graphic imagery that Sonar had even in it's grand old days pre-X... Keni Hi Keni, Yes I have looked into Duckbar, panup is doing everyone a great service and is to be commended for his efforts. Looking at his Kvak programming language also. Pretty cool stuff. I'm not sure why I'm not using Duckbar, maybe I just need to get off me butt and download it. However, I would feel better if Cakewalk implemented the solution. Just sayin is all... Regards,
Mike Win8(64), Sonar X3e(64) w/ RME Fireface UFX.
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Keni
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Re:Seriously - no Save, Cut, Paste, Undo buttons.. Is this for real ? Just say NOOOOO
2013/03/25 13:55:35
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mmorgan
Hi Mike... Have you checked out Duckbar? It offers more control over colors and even graphic imagery that Sonar had even in it's grand old days pre-X... Keni
Hi Keni,
Yes I have looked into Duckbar, panup is doing everyone a great service and is to be commended for his efforts. Looking at his Kvak programming language also. Pretty cool stuff.
I'm not sure why I'm not using Duckbar, maybe I just need to get off me butt and download it. However, I would feel better if Cakewalk implemented the solution. Just sayin is all...
Regards,
Hi Mike... Yes... I agree that I would much prefer these options within Sonar itself, but life goes on and I can't wait for such a maybe when the's a viable option... Do it! Download Duckbar and install in a few seconds. customize within a few minutes! Panu has done a remarkable job and continues to enhance his fine set of tools. Tho he enjoys creating these tools, he too wishes they were simply built into Sonar! ;-) For anyone concerned with using a 3rd party add-on, let me remind you that if you don't customize any colors/gfx, there is no modification of Sonar's files and nothing to undo/redo when troubleshooting or upgrading/updating... Batch freeze/unfreeze is now available and many more handy tools... I can only praise his work as he does this all for free... And it helps me regularly a... Keni
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vintagevibe
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Re:Seriously - no Save, Cut, Paste, Undo buttons.. Is this for real ? Just say NOOOOO
2013/03/25 14:10:16
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Bristol_Jonesey
jscomposer
+1 on the customized control bar. I guess I'm old school, but I used the save icon a lot. I personally hate keyboard shortcuts, it's a PITA with one hand. Cakewalk is so gung-ho on making X2 look pretty, but has left the real issues in the dust.
I respectfully disagree.
Most 2 fingered shortcuts are possible using just one hand, and several 3 fingered options as well.
Using a keyboard with a guitar in you hands or at a drum set is the least efficient way to do it. Using a keyboard also requires looking away from the screen. Surely you can accept that different people have different needs.
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Stipes Vigilo
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Re:Seriously - no Save, Cut, Paste, Undo buttons.. Is this for real ? Just say NOOOOO
2013/03/25 14:18:39
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Most of those keyboard shortcuts I do with one hand (thumb and finger) but I can appreciate that a guitarist might have to take the pick out of their hand to do it. Seems like they would have to do that for a mouse too though?
Definitely understand that each of us has our differences. But didn't someone already offer a third party toolbar solution? Are there problems with that? (Just curious)
X3d Producer x64 - Win7 Professional - (2)Xeon 2.9/52GB - MOTU 24I/O
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cyberzip
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Re:Seriously - no Save, Cut, Paste, Undo buttons.. Is this for real ? Just say NOOOOO
2013/03/25 15:33:55
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I think the button removal in Sonar X1+ deserves a bigger discussion.
I'm a big keyboard shortcut user but I still miss a lot of the buttons from Sonar 8.x. Many things that used to have dedicated buttons now require multiple clicks to accomplish, as there are no keyboard shortcuts.
Like in the Browser: there used to be One-Click-Buttons (TM) for selecting Preview Bus, Views and enabling Auto-Preview. They are now all hidden in a menu, requiring a click just to see their status and/or to change them.
Sonar X2 is a great development, but in many ways the GUI itself became less customizable after Sonar 8.5.
I'm still hoping for the color options to come back in the future. :/
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vintagevibe
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Re:Seriously - no Save, Cut, Paste, Undo buttons.. Is this for real ? Just say NOOOOO
2013/03/25 16:18:43
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Stipes Vigilo
Most of those keyboard shortcuts I do with one hand (thumb and finger) but I can appreciate that a guitarist might have to take the pick out of their hand to do it. Seems like they would have to do that for a mouse too though?
Definitely understand that each of us has our differences. But didn't someone already offer a third party toolbar solution? Are there problems with that? (Just curious)
It's easy to move my wireless mouse around to any position or surface needed. Not so easy to do the same with a keyboard. I tried that utility but wan't impressed though it was a long time ago. As I remember it added another toolbar and quit working with X1b or something like that.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Seriously - no Save, Cut, Paste, Undo buttons.. Is this for real ? Just say NOOOOO
2013/03/25 17:17:19
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vintagevibe
Bristol_Jonesey
jscomposer
+1 on the customized control bar. I guess I'm old school, but I used the save icon a lot. I personally hate keyboard shortcuts, it's a PITA with one hand. Cakewalk is so gung-ho on making X2 look pretty, but has left the real issues in the dust.
I respectfully disagree.
Most 2 fingered shortcuts are possible using just one hand, and several 3 fingered options as well.
Using a keyboard with a guitar in you hands or at a drum set is the least efficient way to do it. Using a keyboard also requires looking away from the screen. Surely you can accept that different people have different needs.
Of course I can. But, whichever method you adopt you will at some point have to remove hand from instrument, then grab mouse, navigate to the button/menu item you want and then click it. If a menu item is buried in the menu hierarchy then that's potentially several mouse clicks = inefficiency. The only practical way to overcome this would be to have a dedicated button for every function. That doesn't seem to be a good way forward.
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