Helpful ReplySidechaining

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Numbhead13
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2017/03/16 10:43:18 (permalink)

Sidechaining

I was wondering if someone could help. I was trying to set up some side chaining last night but unfortunately I could not get it working. I was trying to side chain to the Pro Channel Bus compressor on a vocal track but at first it did not work,(no signal was sent)then Sonar either just crashed or kept getting audio drop outs the second I hit play. I then tried the same with the Sonitus Compressor and also 2 Native Instruments ones as well, but again it either crashed or just froze the audio.
 The signal path was: vocal track> send to new stereo bus> added a delay then Bus Comp. Turned on the sidechain switch
then New send from vocal track to Bus Comp Sidechain. At first nothing happened then it just crashed or just would not play without the audio engine dropping out.
 I also try send other tracks to the the comp but this did work either, and I even tried doing the same with a new track (tried ducking a bass part with the kick drum).
If someone could help with this is would be greatly appreciated as these are things I have managed to do easily in the past and now it seems something is seriously wrong.
#1
stevesweat
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Re: Sidechaining 2017/03/16 13:16:08 (permalink)
It almost sounds like you are trying to duck a vocal track with itself?? Are there two vocal tracks and you want one to "duck" when the other comes in? It would help to know what you want to duck and what you want to trigger the ducking.

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#2
Numbhead13
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Re: Sidechaining 2017/03/16 17:06:24 (permalink)
I am ducking the vocal with itself so that only the delay comes through on a separate channel. I have done this loads of times before and this is the method that I basically use:
http://blog.cakewalk.com/easy-dynamic-vocal-fx-sonar/
 
I even checked all my settings against this but to no avail (I was using a different delay, but even tried the Blue Tubes was as above just in case it made a difference, which I knew it would not) 
#3
ralf
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Re: Sidechaining 2017/03/17 09:58:53 (permalink)
Is the problem only for a particular project, or also if you do it in a fresh project? At least for me, sidechanning is working in Sonar (2017.1) as it should.
#4
Numbhead13
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Re: Sidechaining 2017/03/17 10:57:59 (permalink)
i will check over the weekend but I seem to remember having a similar routing issue a few weeks ago in that the sidechain input was not being displayed in the list of sends. I have a feeling I could have a registry problem or something as the other problem was in another project.
#5
stevesweat
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Re: Sidechaining 2017/03/17 13:38:05 (permalink)
I would do a quick test if you can and create a new project with just one ten second vocal track, then try the routing again.
 
For some reason this reminds me of several occasions where deleting the problematic bus and creating a new one seemed to be a fix.
Good Luck!

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#6
Roo Stercogburn
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Re: Sidechaining 2017/03/17 15:25:18 (permalink)
I might not be understanding your problem correctly but possibly try this:
 
Create 2 busses. Have one bus as the output from your vocal track and the other as a Send.
 
Put the compressor on one bus. Have the output from the original vocal track also sent to the compressor on that bus.
The output from this bus should be sent to the second bus.
 
Use that second bus as a master. You can then duck your vocals with themselves but you've changed the routing so its handled on the way out, and not routed back into itself and should be able to mix as suits. This also allows you to choose where to put in other FX, either on the ducked version of the vocal output or on the master vocal output.
 
I hope that makes sense and helps.

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#7
Numbhead13
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Re: Sidechaining 2017/03/20 15:19:44 (permalink)
I will try all of these suggestions this evening but to answer Roo, it is not how the routing is being set as I have done this many times before but more that the routing is not working at all. Instead of working it is just crashing Sonar, even when I have tried it on different channels, like I said, I even tried ducking a bassline with a kick drum. As soon as I assigned the send and pressed play the audio engine would just freeze and after a few goes just put Sonar into "Not responding"
 
 
#8
Roo Stercogburn
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Re: Sidechaining 2017/03/20 15:23:51 (permalink)
Righty, didn't mean to be teaching to suck eggs or anything, it just wasn't clear to me if it was a routing of the routing issue, or if something was going boom despite being properly set up. Hope you get it solved.

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#9
jackson white
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Re: Sidechaining 2017/03/20 15:25:20 (permalink)
stevesweat
deleting the problematic bus and creating a new one seemed to be a fix.

 
Can't give you a reason, but this has worked for me.

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#10
Numbhead13
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Re: Sidechaining 2017/03/20 15:32:26 (permalink)
I will try again tonight, I am pretty sure that I did delete and start again twice over. I think the project must have a bug. So, if this does not work I will try some other projects and see if I have any luck.
 
#11
Numbhead13
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Re: Sidechaining 2017/04/13 07:00:19 (permalink)
OK, i have another project now where I cannot sidechain, this time I am trying to get a kick drum to duck a bass part but I cannot get it to work, the bass drum signal is not hitting the compressor ( I have tried a the Prochannel Bus Comp, a Sonitus one and a couple of Native Instruments one). Really not sure what to do? 
#12
RSMCGUITAR
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Re: Sidechaining 2017/04/13 07:47:43 (permalink)
I have had a lot of trouble with the ProChannel and sidechaining.

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#13
Numbhead13
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Re: Sidechaining 2017/04/13 09:34:53 (permalink)
RSMCGUITAR, I think I might try it in the effects bin, see if that makes a difference. I am also thinking, looking at your posts it could be because I am using patch points and aux tracks? I will do some experimenting.... 
#14
chuckebaby
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Re: Sidechaining 2017/04/13 11:09:17 (permalink)
RSMCGUITAR
I have had a lot of trouble with the ProChannel and sidechaining.


+1  I have as well.
 
To the OP: In situations like yours I typically use a send to a bus / to hear only the delay and not the vocal.
I use to do similar things on analog gear back in the day by patching the FX at the stereo outs (using a send) to a bus.
I know that's little help, my apology's. But maybe I can try to reproduce this on my set up in a little bit, tell you what I got.

Chuck Jones 
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#15
lawajava
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Re: Sidechaining 2017/04/14 03:08:07 (permalink)
Regardless of how you do it, one consideration is to use VST3 plugins.

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#16
Grumbleweed_
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Re: Sidechaining 2017/04/14 04:30:45 (permalink)
The only time I had trouble with sidechaining using the ProChannel compressor was when I turned on mono for the compressed channel. It disabled the sidechain. Stereo got it back again. It never made Sonar crash though.

Grum.

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#17
RSMCGUITAR
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Re: Sidechaining 2017/04/14 04:41:02 (permalink)
Interesting. Would that be by design? I don't know why I shouldn't be able to sidechain a mono signal.

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#18
Grumbleweed_
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Re: Sidechaining 2017/04/14 08:29:21 (permalink)
RSMCGUITAR
Interesting. Would that be by design? I don't know why I shouldn't be able to sidechain a mono signal.


I don't understand the concept behind it not working but it did my head in trying to figure what had broken!

Grum.

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RSMCGUITAR
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Re: Sidechaining 2017/04/15 17:08:29 (permalink)
I'm bumping this to hopefully get an answer. I find this really irritating. Sidechaining should work in the prochannel.

As a side note: do you guys think development on the prochannel is over? There were requests for a more consolidated insert list a couple years ago which has yet to be implemented. The only thing new was those big knobs. Kinda seems forgotten at this point.

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#20
RSMCGUITAR
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Re: Sidechaining 2017/04/15 23:10:13 (permalink)
Since no one is responding... Do you guys even use the ProChannel?

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#21
Grumbleweed_
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Re: Sidechaining 2017/04/16 10:35:42 (permalink)
RSMCGUITAR
Since no one is responding... Do you guys even use the ProChannel?


I use it in all of my tracks. Mainly compressors and the standard EQ. And the Concrete Limiter. And reverb.
 
Grum.

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#22
chuckebaby
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Re: Sidechaining 2017/04/16 10:47:43 (permalink)
I agree with you RSM.
Hopefully they make more upgrades to the PC in the future. I wasn't a big fan of the style dials either.
They reeked of "New user" (one button/knob does it all). I think I used the style dials 2 or 3 times in total.
Side chaining has always been a little confusing for me in Sonar. I blame some of it on myself but also on Sonar for not being a little more intuitive.

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#23
Zargg
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Re: Sidechaining 2017/04/16 14:40:51 (permalink)
RSMCGUITAR
Since no one is responding... Do you guys even use the ProChannel?


I use it in each and every project.
As others have mentioned, I usually use FX bin or buses for SideChaining.
All the best.

Ken Nilsen
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#24
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Re: Sidechaining 2017/04/16 14:50:19 (permalink)
To be honest, I find sidechaining in Sonar is as intuitive as it used to be in analogue studios through the patchbay, although it's slightly quicker and easier in Sonar. Providing the plugin supports SC and you keep the signal paths logical, there shouldn't be any problems. 
#25
RSMCGUITAR
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Re: Sidechaining 2017/04/16 15:28:04 (permalink)
Thanks guys.
It's not really too confusing for me. It's the fact sidechaining is broken for the PC. It becomes confusing when you can't figure out why it's not working.

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Numbhead13
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Re: Sidechaining 2017/04/19 08:14:45 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby RSMCGUITAR 2017/04/19 09:58:09
OK, so I did some more testing last night. I opened a brand new project, had a bass line and a kick drum. I set up the PC bus compressor on the bass, sent the kick drum to it and nothing happened, I tried switching the pre/after fader toggle on the send, nothing. Then I switched the mono/stereo switch on the bass track and voila, the compressor started pumping with the kick drum. Once it started working I could then turn the bass track back to mono (it lowered in volume when it was in stereo) and it carried on working. I then tried the same again but used a bus channel and then I even set up some patch points and an Aux track to see if that changed anything but all was still fine.
So I then tried the same on a full project (60+ tracks) and the same again, and it worked straight away (almost like something had cleared in Sonar and it was now fixed) but.........
The only problem I then had was I could not now solo the bass track to actually hear how it was being affected by the kick drum, but I kept soloing and different tracks ( I had a bass part sent to 2 patch points, these to an Aux track and this to a final bus which I sent the kick drum to) and finally again something seemed to clear and it let me solo the bass track and I could hear the pumping effect.
 I will carry on trying out a few things and go back to the vocal track that I originally wanted to do and see if that works but it seems to me that somehow all of my routing had got messed up somehow and then in some way it managed to clear itself. Very strange indeed. 
#27
Snehankur
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Re: Sidechaining 2017/05/11 03:00:56 (permalink)
Any module which support side chain to duck vocal delay by vocal which is bundled with SPLAT?
[don't want to buy anything new right now]
Regards
Snehankur
#28
scook
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Re: Sidechaining 2017/05/11 03:50:30 (permalink)
Go to 2:14 in this video

The documentation mentions the other plug-ins bundled with SONAR with a sidechain
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2:43AM
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Re: Sidechaining 2017/05/11 04:11:30 (permalink)
How about this for side-chaining:
 
While working on a project in Ableton Live and also having SPLAT project open with aux buses, Live's sends were pushing audio data into SPLAT's aux buses! In other words, the reverbs and delays in SPLAT were responding to audio from Live! Now that's side-chaining...well, not really...but truly messed up!!!

Thought I would toss that into the mix!

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