Hi Danny,
 
It's good to be able to discuss this sort of thing in an open and respectful way - I thank you for that.  I have to say I agree with most of what you say, but there's just one thing I want to raise and that's that there's quite a few guys here who are clearly great fathers or father-figures like yourself and Guitarhacker and in that environment it's not so much of a problem that the kid see's the over-sexualised material from MTV et al, because the parents are making sure that the kids keep things in perspective.  It's not the kids being looked after by guys like you I worry about but the one's from less functional families and let's face it, there's a lot of them.  Those are the one's that are easily influenced and they don't have the guidance from good parents that they should; for them it's not so clear what's right and wrong.  It's easy for a kid like that to go out, get high, get laid and never think about the consequences.  This is the world Miley is feeding into and like I say, I don't think it's something she's remotely considered it, which is sad.
 
Hi Drewfx1
 
It's a good point you're making, but I do think you are coming to a conclusion that's a bit cynical - with due respect to you.  For another artist, sure I wouldn't put it past them to grab the free publicity, but not Sinead.  She might be complicated and she might have made some pretty poor choices at times, but I don't doubt her sincerity.  She has been ordained as a priest, but more importantly it just doesn't seem like her, she's highly principled and tends to wear her heart on her sleeve.  
 
The sequence as I understand it is Miley posted that Sinead inspired her and the press started hounding Sinead for a response.  At that point Sinead had a choice, speak to the press and let them twist her answer (no thanks!), ignore it and let Miley do her thing - good idea, but I think she was genuinely concerned for Miley and since Miley had established the connection she had a chance to communicate - hence the open letter.  Maybe I'm being naive, it wouldn't be the first time for me, but in this case I don't think so.  It's good to be cautious of people's motivations but not everyone is solely motivated by self interest.  Cynicism can be useful, but it can also go too far.
 
All of this is just my opinion - no offence intended to anyone posting here.  As Danny says "this is a great discussion to have".

gswitz
Anyone recorded a chorus of 10 year olds before? Any point in trying to do a tight version? I thought it might be fun to give each kid a version where they have a kicking solo to copy for their families for XMas.

Ask Bapu.  He's recorded the CHC which is virtually the same thing except less trainable.
 

LOL Craig

Ah!!  This forum is so buggy...   omg, nevermind

drewfx1 ...
My point was only that Sinead might be exploiting Miley's massive publicity for her own benefit.
 
But you are of course free to judge me as you like.

I kinda thought that Miley is the one that breached the publicity thing, by mentioning someone that has been notoriously emotional about her relations, and the music was personal because of it. As for the sex'iness side of it, I kinda think that it is mostly a carbon copy of Madonna, but unffortunately, since I'm a guy, I have never met a woman that "put out" ... and followed it up without the talk! Madonna included!
 
As for judging you, it was meant as fun, and not judging anyone.
 
It just bugs me, that we are in 2013, women have struggled hard to get some freedoms, and some equality, and some moneys and chances to run businesses and what not, and then we find something to talk about, that helps tell the "women" that you can't do that ... which is a very MAN-THING to say and do.
 
We just can't get off this not allowing women to make their choices and living with it ... we have to immediately get paranoid and say that some men are doing it for her ... geeee ... we gonna say the same for Madonna? Or Brittney? Or Kate? ... these people are not stupid ... they are very smart ladies and they know what they want ... and they will get it done!
 
Give them the credit they deserve is all I say!
 
And the media thing, is boring and sick ... just a total kiss-ash to the patrician world! And keep women under lock and key ... and my feeling is, that our "spiritual inner life" will NEVER grow until we can "come together" honestly, evenly, and without judgement ... which we are not capable of doing when it comes to women!
 
WTF do I know, anyway ... never been married and no children ... it's a **** being so damn romantic, I tell you!

Jonbouy
The whole conservative 'outrage' thing about Miley just now is complete madness.
 
I'd be alarmed if my kids were watching that wrecking ball video for the simple reason that their taste normally reflects the fact they are pretty discerning about the music they choose to listen on the whole and I'd be surprised if they suddenly went for something that they'd normally describe as 'Pop Torture'.
 
I'm with Drew on Ms O'Connor's likely motivation on writing that open letter, because in 10 years time Miley's attempts at trying to raise a stir by being a bit risque will likely be less enduring than say some of the Hollywood starlets of the 30's were and the old lady will be aware of that so I really suspect that this has been written to get some publicity mileage out of a stir she is unlikely to be able to create for herself.
 
In truth my biggest criticism of the video was that the kick drum seemed a bit over compressed but then again I suppose it was meant as a deliberate attempt at an audio reference to a 'Wrecking Ball'.
 
Most kids that have two brain cells to rub together will already figure that this video has as much to do with influencing the sexuality of worlds youth as Bambi had on the Third Reich.  The only misguided people around all this are those falling for the 'importance' of it, it's those that are creating the publicity spectacle this has become, not the calculating music industry moguls, including Miley herself that are set to get a good pay day out of the fact the consuming public behave in very predictable ways.  I'd far rather watch Miley licking hammers than the sad spectacle of a vast swathe of humanity acting like sheep and creating the market that sustains this kind of career move ad-infinitum.  As for it influencing the children to any significant degree, most kids I know live in a reality where they have more important fish to fry and most of them will likely be more intrigued by the strange reaction of their parents rather than the actions of Ms Cyrus.
 
After all I grew up with Keith Moon as a role-model and I've never driven a Rolls Royce into a swimming pool yet, at least as far as I'm aware.

 
Hey!   Let's just keep the sheep out of this conversation Jon, ok?  They've never done anything to deserve the insults.
 
(Just sayin'...)
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
()

Hi,
 
So weird ... years ago we wagged our tails and dongs and what not at dearest Marilyn, and others ... and there were always some starts that we ... liked! Barbara Steele was my favorite, but then so were Julie Christie! Others went for Raquel Welch and Ann Margret.
 
What is the big deal? You suggesting that these folks were not any sex'ier, and overt, than the wrecking ball media blitz?
 
Look ... it's a media blitz that was learned with "Deep Throat" ... SHUT UP ... because you are making it more famous by talking about it ... and the church could not keep it's mouth shut, and made a lousy movie famous. So, now we have a lousy piece of music, and the production is over done, and you sit here and discuss it all day long!
 
If it were my daughter, I would still support her. It's your choice, hon, I love you, but be careful because you will be attracting all the porn men and then some to you every hour on the hour not to mention even more famous and richer turkeys! I would still be there to pick her up, if it went wrong!
 
You know the best thing that could happen to these things? ... big party, you spend lots of money ... and no one shows up! But noooooo ... we have to make it look like we were there and not l ike it.
 
Sometimes I'm glad I'm a bit blind ... I don't feel the need to tear my eyes out to quote a good man!

Hi,
 
The one thing that anyone ... ANYONE ... can learn about radio, television and the media is ... a REACTION ... is GOOD BUSINESS.
 
So, the next time you want Miley to go enjoy her sex by herself, just turn it off and go watch a real porn, or go have fun with the significant other.
 
I must be the only one that has not seen it, and is not interested in seeing ... just watching her face in the pictures, the whole thing is worse than a Halloween costume, and so fake, it's pathetic! Goo ahead and kiss and lick all that makeup! It's good for you!
 
How gullible are we?
 
Make sure you can answer that before you answer!
 
The only thing I would not wish to teach my daughter, or son, is to be a fake in makeup that can't put out! ... ohhh ... I forgot ... Halloween is supposed to be fun! And you have to let your young kid dress up as Miley!

and yet Bapu licks sledgehammers and nary a word of outrage....
 
you hypocrites

"Bapu licks sledgehammers and nary a word of outrage...."
 
Links or it didn't happen.

 
I once made an observation.
 
But I have since forgotten exactly what it was that I observed.
 
 

I have no idea why people get so bent out of shape about celebrity behavior. So what if Miley dances sexually and portrays a party girl image. As if that is new or original in any way. Older people claiming morals are decling seem to have very selective memories and perspectives on history. Younger people have traditionally outraged the previous generation and that trend will likely continue forever but how do you objectively measure if things are better or worse? Where is this imaginary time when people were alledgedly better? The biggest difference seems to be that technology gives us more exposure to the generational cultural norms. Were we really more moral when it was ok to own humans? Were we really more moral when it was perfectly oegal to rape your wife? There are bright spots and ugly aspects of every decade of history. Take the 50'S for instance. Is Molly shaking her rear suggestively with her tongue out morally worse than people not allowed to eat at the same counter due to skin color? I know it's apples and oranges but moral high horses tend to work in that way. We rationalize immorality from the past and demonize what others do. In the end Miley is hurting nobody except possibly herself and even that is debatable. I'm a parent and my kids just shake their hads and laugh her antics off as typical celebrity shenanigans with no affect on their lives.. As for sinead, pot meet kettle. Miley does not force us to watch and she does not show up as Hannah Montana at kindergarten parties only to chang e into lingerie. Sinead agreed to be on a show and intentionally hijacked it for the sole purpose of insulting someone and potebtially millions. She has no moral high ground.

dubdisciple
I have no idea why people get so bent out of shape about celebrity behavior. So what if Miley dances sexually and portrays a party girl image. As if that is new or original in any way. Older people claiming morals are decling seem to have very selective memories and perspectives on history. Younger people have traditionally outraged the previous generation and that trend will likely continue forever but how do you objectively measure if things are better or worse? Where is this imaginary time when people were alledgedly better? The biggest difference seems to be that technology gives us more exposure to the generational cultural norms. Were we really more moral when it was ok to own humans? Were we really more moral when it was perfectly oegal to rape your wife? There are bright spots and ugly aspects of every decade of history. Take the 50'S for instance. Is Molly shaking her rear suggestively with her tongue out morally worse than people not allowed to eat at the same counter due to skin color? I know it's apples and oranges but moral high horses tend to work in that way. We rationalize immorality from the past and demonize what others do. In the end Miley is hurting nobody except possibly herself and even that is debatable. I'm a parent and my kids just shake their hads and laugh her antics off as typical celebrity shenanigans with no affect on their lives.. As for sinead, pot meet kettle. Miley does not force us to watch and she does not show up as Hannah Montana at kindergarten parties only to chang e into lingerie. Sinead agreed to be on a show and intentionally hijacked it for the sole purpose of insulting someone and potebtially millions. She has no moral high ground.

 
Well said Dub.
 
 
 

Jonbouy
The whole conservative 'outrage' thing about Miley just now is complete madness.
...

Thank you ... simply put!
 
I do think that this is the media doing by standing up to their Christian/Social beliefs, that kinda state, unstated of course, that a woman can not be a ___________, and do that kind of thing. The sad thing, is that when it happens, we stand here and cackle with the best of them ... and give that media belief, even more power to help us continue being submissive to their beliefs and ideas!
 
I mean, for some it's all cool to see Kim, Pam, Brittney, this and that person, in a clip on the internet ... and in the end, it's just cheap porno, and makes DT look good, instead of the cheap-ash film that it was! And what Miley did was just cheap-ash choreography, and money wasted on props and costumes ... and we sit here and make it seem like it was heaven on the face of the earth with a stone cold brash and young person on top of it!
 
Reminds me of Mick Jagger riding a 20ft dick on the stage!
 
When you got the money flaunt it and people will think it's good for that singer/artist!

got nothing to go with conservative Christian outrage.
 
its the objectification of women...
 
I see the feminist movement is silent on her portrayal.