delonasn
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So, so disappointed with Producer X2
I should have stuck with Producer 8.5. Cakewalk, you ruined the interface! The GUI is *definitely* inferior to what it was. What were you thinking? Didn't you do any user testing? Did MBAs take over management? Engaged in groupthink over there?
Geez, I can't figure out how to do any of the standard things I used to do routinely. Pretty much have to relearn the product from scratch, which is a huge waste of time. Even after weeks of working with it, I'm still struggling with simple operations because you've removed menu items.
Your bizarre UI decisions have cut my productivity by an order of magnitude, completely unnecessarily. The reason I've stuck with Cakewalk all these years is because I knew the product well. That's no longer true at all. This might as well be Cubase or Pro Tools.
If it ain't broken, DON"T FIX IT!
And you didn't even fix V-Vocal, which *was* broken and is still too unstable to be very useful.
Wow. Really, really bad. Shame on you.
--Nick
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spacey
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Re: So, so disappointed with Producer X2
2013/09/24 14:47:10
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Shame you missed the "Try Sonar X2 free for 30 days" part.
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Beepster
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Re: So, so disappointed with Producer X2
2013/09/24 14:48:42
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And why exactly can't you simply use 8.5? X2 does not delete previous versions from your system. Furthermore, X2 has some issues but it's pretty slick to use when it's actually working and many of us like it for the most part. Don't be hyperbolic. You are making those of us with legit and reasonable concerns get ignored.
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Shambler
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Re: So, so disappointed with Producer X2
2013/09/24 14:50:36
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Personally after a short period learning the new interface I've been having an Austin Powers type BLAST BABY! YEAH!!!!
SONAR Platypus on Win10 64bit. Studio One Pro / Cubase Pro 9.5...just in case. 8GB i7-2600 3.4GHz Gigabyte Z68XP-UD3P Geforce GTX970 Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 2nd Gen Prophet 12/Rev 2/Virus Snow Zebra2/DIVA/NI Komplete 10
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doncolga
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Re: So, so disappointed with Producer X2
2013/09/24 14:54:20
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spacey
Shame you missed the "Try Sonar X2 free for 30 days" part.
Big +1 on that. An 8.5 user myself, my experience with the X2 UI has been fantastic. Love it.
HP Z220 Workstation I7 3770, 8 GB RAM, Windows 10, Sonar Platinum, RME Multiface II via PCIe, JBL 4326 w/sub, AvanTone MixCubes
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jb101
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Re: So, so disappointed with Producer X2
2013/09/24 15:09:22
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I was gobsmacked when I first fired up the X series, but watching the Cake videos, and Scott's Sonar Power book helped a lot.
Now, I couldn't imagine going back to pre X series. For me, it is a huge step forward.
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Gary McCoy
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Re: So, so disappointed with Producer X2
2013/09/24 15:36:03
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Look at it this way: it didn't cost you anything but some of your time to try it.
Too bad you are having a bad experience. My experience was different. I, too, was a happy, user of Sonar 8.x. I waited a long time to go to X2, and decided to move up because I liked what I saw of the Pro Channel. What I found:
The UI is *definitely* superior in X2--e.g. the Smart Tool and the Multidock are fabulous
The Pro Channel is all I hoped it would be
It *definitely* took only a couple sessions to get up to speed on the new features
The workflow in X2 is *definitely* superior
I am now working faster and more efficiently than ever
V-Vocal is *definitely* quite stable and very useful--no more or less than it was in 8.x
Anyway, you are living in a perfect world: simply use 8.5 and enjoy life. Best of luck!
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markyzno
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Re: So, so disappointed with Producer X2
2013/09/24 15:36:42
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Nevermind, X3 is out soon  I'm a huge fan of the X series and wouldnt dream of going back to clunky 8.5
Sonar Platinum 64 bit > Pro tools 10.3.2 >Intel i7 3770K > 16Gb Ram > Gigabyte Z77-D3H Motherboard> NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 2 GB > ATi RADEON HD5700 > 240GB OCZ Agility 3 SSD> Win 10 home 64 bit> Delta 1010 > MOTU Audio Express > MA-15D's > NI Ultimate 9 > NI Kontrol S61 1.1 > NI MAschine Studio 2.3 / KORG MS-20 Mini - Arturia MicroBrute > KORG SQ1 - KORG Kaoss Pad KP3 > iPad and IO Dock 2 running various bits > Bunch of guitars >Sound Design on IMDB --
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mmorgan
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Re: So, so disappointed with Producer X2
2013/09/24 15:42:50
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Well I'm sympathetic to your frustrations but honestly my experience was much different than yours. All of the plugin windows floating around in pre X series used to drive me nuts - I truly hated them. After a bit of a learning curve I find the X series interface much improved and I'm glad Cakewalk did the redesign. Obviously your mileage did vary.
Regards,
Mike Win8(64), Sonar X3e(64) w/ RME Fireface UFX.
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brundlefly
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Re: So, so disappointed with Producer X2
2013/09/24 16:17:39
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I think I can safely say that the majority of long-time SONAR users had a negative reaction to the X-series changes at least in the short term due to the need to re-learn so much of the interface. I remapped some of the most pointless hotkey changes to ease the transition.
Now a couple of years down the road I still have minor issues with some color choices and the inefficient use of space in the track view, but overall, between the Multidock, Screensets, Browser, Control Bar and Track Inspector I think the new interface has proven to be a net improvement over the old one.
Bottom line, the OP needs to give it some time, and maybe Google some of the "where the hell did <some function> go?" threads from back when X1 was released. There were plenty.
SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424 (24-bit, 48kHz) Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
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thebiglongy
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Re: So, so disappointed with Producer X2
2013/09/24 16:34:18
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Always love these posts. You can guarantee some will flock in to proclaim it's the best thing in the world.
I understand what you are getting at here.
Even for a new user, the new GUI isn't really easy to get around. The screen real estate is taken up somewhat, although with the use of screensets, this can be sorted to your liking. I still love sonar 8/8.5 it was an easy interface with no frills, not overly polished and tbh, I prefered it like that. It was more functional looking. Now it's kinda like a posh toy.
It does take time to get back into it, and in some ways it is probably easier for those newbies who didn't jump on the wagon back in the days of 8.5
I've spent ages digging around the interface to find things, still not 100% on it now, and with x3 coming and the Gibson thing going on, I will probably hold out for a year or so to see how things are going.
Sonar x2a Win 7 x64 // i7 930 @ stock speed // Gigabyte x58a-ud3r (rev 1) // 6gb corsair 1600mhz triple channel // ATI HD5450 Samsung EVO 128gb SSD // 2 x WD Black 1tb. M-Audio Fast Track Ultra 8R
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Rski
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Re: So, so disappointed with Producer X2
2013/09/24 16:47:32
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I thought that as producer incremented towards the 8.3 version the amount of clutter of radio buttons was cumbersome....
As others mentioned, the X series, is so much more intuitive, once you become comfortable with navigating through the different multidocks....
I wish the interface I use at work for sequencing machines was multidock....resizing windows is a drag
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stevec
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Re: So, so disappointed with Producer X2
2013/09/24 16:54:19
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thebiglongy
Always love these posts. You can guarantee some will flock in to proclaim it's the best thing in the world.
Perhaps it's because many people actually do pefer it over 8.5 or earlier? It is possible. The simple fact is that the 8.5 UI wasn't "better", just different. I've been around here as long as anyone, and I happen to like the direction CW has taken. This is entirely a case of YMMV and will probably never change. Well, actually I hope it does change because I also hope CW will continue to tweak the X* UI and workflow like they did between X1 and X2.
SteveC https://soundcloud.com/steve-cocchi http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163 SONAR Platinum x64, Intel Q9300 (2.5Ghz), Asus P5N-D, Win7 x64 SP1, 8GB RAM, 1TB internal + ESATA + USB Backup HDDs, ATI Radeon HD5450 1GB RAM + dual ViewSonic VA2431wm Monitors; Focusrite 18i6 (ASIO); Komplete 9, Melodyne Studio 4, Ozone 7 Advanced, Rapture Pro, GPO5, Valhalla Plate, MJUC comp, MDynamic EQ, lots of other freebie VST plugins, synths and Kontakt libraries
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musicroom
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Re: So, so disappointed with Producer X2
2013/09/24 17:32:31
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I find it interesting that it can be uncool to like the software you use. But very cool to flip it off and stay with the previous version that countless folks also quacked about. Entertainment thread. Thanks OP!
Dave Songs___________________________________ Desktop: Platinum / RME Multiface II / Purrfect Audio DAW I7-3770 / 16 GB RAM / Win 10 Pro / Remote Laptop i7 6500U / 12GB RAM / RME Babyface
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Mystic38
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Re: So, so disappointed with Producer X2
2013/09/24 17:53:23
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Personally I would like to commend just how fabulous Sonar 8.5 must have been for the OP to have used it for 4 years with only 2, yes TWO, posts in this forum :S
HPE-580T with i7-950, 8G, 1.5T, ATI6850, Win7/64, Motu 828 III Hybrid, Motu Midi Express, Sonar Platinum, Komplete 9, Ableton Live 9 & Push 2, Melodyne Editor and other stuff, KRK VXT8 Monitors Virus Ti2 Polar, Fantom G6, Yamaha S70XS, Novation Nova, Novation Nova II, Korg MS2000, Waldorf Micro Q, NI Maschine Studio, TC-VoiceLive Rack, 2012 Gibson Les Paul Standard, 2001 Gibson Les Paul DC, 1999 Fender Am Hardtail Strat, Fender Blues Jr, Orange TH30/PPC212, Tak EF360GF, one mic, no talent.
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BobbyT
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Re: So, so disappointed with Producer X2
2013/09/24 18:24:09
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delonasn
And you didn't even fix V-Vocal, which *was* broken and is still too unstable to be very useful.
Wow. Really, really bad. Shame on you.
--Nick
to set sonar x2 up to be used with V Vocal is a step in the right direction in terms of learning to use X2,keep going with the videos and books and you'll be in good shape in no time.
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: So, so disappointed with Producer X2
2013/09/24 18:46:54
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☄ Helpfulby Daan 2013/09/25 05:11:22
Not to fault anyone for liking an earlier product but 8.5 had a pretty horrendous user interface by modern standards. It had a proliferation of dialogs, floating windows, buried options and disjointed menus which were common in apps from the last era of UI design. If you were had learned all the options of course one could work fast there but it was far far worse for a newer user to get used to than X2. X2 utilizes many proven UX patterns that are known to improve productivity. For those unfamiliar with some of those patterns it might take a bit of re-learning but once you switch your mindset let me assure you that it will be far superior.
We went through the exact same paradigm shift about 13 years ago when we first introduced SONAR. Anyone remember the furor when we took away the excel spreadsheet style track view columns and introduced the new track view? :) There were users for years telling us that the older interface was superior.
Any major UI change takes getting used to. The change to the X series was a difficult transition for all of us to make but it was absolutely due and required to take SONAR into the next decade of computing.
The same applies to touch. Many think it is a gimmick but a few years from now you will wonder how you ever got on without it.
Have a little patience and learn the interface and you will be more than rewarded. I can barely look at 8.5 anymore - its so dated..
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BlixYZ
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Re: So, so disappointed with Producer X2
2013/09/24 18:51:15
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very fishy. 2 posts in 4 years? who would buy x2 right before x3 comes out? it's there a promotion? buy x3 get x2 free now? 4 engineers work out of my studio and we all love x2. it's not perfect, but it's amazing! p.s., fix take lanes. glitchy.
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wizard71
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Re: So, so disappointed with Producer X2
2013/09/24 19:12:26
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Change is inevitable, it's the most exciting thing about life i would say.
http://www.youtube.com/SpaceTimeAceshttps://soundcloud.com/space-time-acesSonar Platinum - Win 8.1 x64 - Haswell 4770k - ASrock Z87 pro3 - 32gb ram - Fractal design R4 case - 3x HDD 1 USB 2.0 external 1x cr M4 ssd for samples - Octa-capture - Sontronics Aria - Sontronics STC-1s - BX8 monitors - ARC 2 system - Kawai CA63 piano - Kawai MP6 Stage piano - Fender custom Telecaster FMT - Yamaha LL6 - Fender P bass
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The Band19 
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Re: So, so disappointed with Producer X2
2013/09/24 19:17:05
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8.3 Pro until my machine gives up the ghost... It works well for me, and I know it.
Sittin downtown in a railway station one toke over the line.
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rodreb
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Re: So, so disappointed with Producer X2
2013/09/24 20:57:05
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I really hated X2 in the beginning. After working with it, I now only mildly dislike some things about it. Most things I've been able to get used to. A few things still really need changed/fixed, IMHO.
Not sure about what the future holds with the Gibson deal and all, though. We'll see. If they screw things all up, I will probably be making the jump over to Pro Tools.
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thebiglongy
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Re: So, so disappointed with Producer X2
2013/09/25 12:41:48
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stevec
thebiglongy
Always love these posts. You can guarantee some will flock in to proclaim it's the best thing in the world.
Perhaps it's because many people actually do pefer it over 8.5 or earlier? It is possible.
I wasn't referring to those who preferred 8.5, I was speaking of those who chime in on how great the X series is compared to it.
Sonar x2a Win 7 x64 // i7 930 @ stock speed // Gigabyte x58a-ud3r (rev 1) // 6gb corsair 1600mhz triple channel // ATI HD5450 Samsung EVO 128gb SSD // 2 x WD Black 1tb. M-Audio Fast Track Ultra 8R
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MetalTeK
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Re: So, so disappointed with Producer X2
2013/09/25 13:05:28
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I hated it too at first. But I love it now, as most everything can be customized to your liking.
I have been using cakewalk since 2003, but I have had nothing but bad experiences with the performance side in the X series.
I went all 64 bit, built a new PC to take full advantage of everything.
Unfortunately, I have had problems with X1 and a CPU spiking problem within X2, I have posted on here, but still can't figure it out.
I guess it's time to say so long to Sonar.
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scook
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Re: So, so disappointed with Producer X2
2013/09/25 13:12:17
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Living Room Rocker
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Re: So, so disappointed with Producer X2
2013/09/25 14:27:16
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Not to fault anyone for liking an earlier product but 8.5 had a pretty horrendous user interface by modern standards. It had a proliferation of dialogs, floating windows, buried options and disjointed menus which were common in apps from the last era of UI design. If you were had learned all the options of course one could work fast there but it was far far worse for a newer user to get used to than X2. X2 utilizes many proven UX patterns that are known to improve productivity. For those unfamiliar with some of those patterns it might take a bit of re-learning but once you switch your mindset let me assure you that it will be far superior.
We went through the exact same paradigm shift about 13 years ago when we first introduced SONAR. Anyone remember the furor when we took away the excel spreadsheet style track view columns and introduced the new track view? :) There were users for years telling us that the older interface was superior.
Any major UI change takes getting used to. The change to the X series was a difficult transition for all of us to make but it was absolutely due and required to take SONAR into the next decade of computing.
The same applies to touch. Many think it is a gimmick but a few years from now you will wonder how you ever got on without it.
Have a little patience and learn the interface and you will be more than rewarded. I can barely look at 8.5 anymore - its so dated..
Hi, Noel. I was all for an new UI and even suggested that the Bakers consider the Music Creator look for SONAR (as was their intention all along). The greatest disappointment I have with 8.5 to X was that the customization of the UI was totally stripped down. That also included the tools. I wish I could remove or add tools in the CB within modules so that I can maximize the use of screen space. The ability to only view or hide, move and float the modules/control bar are far from the tradition Cakewalk touted proudly about SONAR's vast customization options (including colors). But that would be the top of a list of traditional features that have since been compromised in the name (or for the sake) of improvement. Okay, so X3 might offer some color customization option, but that doesn't really affect workflow. I wish I can change the default settings of the smart tool to my liking to enhance my workflow. 8.5 had such options for tools and that was pretty darn cool. So, we lost some legacy features for new features that are still going through the growing pains. It's understandable then that, learning UX patterns aside, adapting to a fixed workflow still hampers one's personal preference when it comes to workflow. And that's what was lost from 8.5 to X. We cannot customize SONAR Xx to our personal preferences and nothing that we've read about X3 so far suggests we will be able to do so. I am not so sure we ever will. Kind regards, Living Room Rocker
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stevec
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Re: So, so disappointed with Producer X2
2013/09/25 14:59:40
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+1 for a customizable control bar module. That's something I would like to see, just for ergonomics; e.g., all common tools in the same general location. But if X3 offers some type of color customization, and apparently it does, that is at least a step in the right direction on the customization front. Who knows, maybe with that done the control bar is next... 
SteveC https://soundcloud.com/steve-cocchi http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163 SONAR Platinum x64, Intel Q9300 (2.5Ghz), Asus P5N-D, Win7 x64 SP1, 8GB RAM, 1TB internal + ESATA + USB Backup HDDs, ATI Radeon HD5450 1GB RAM + dual ViewSonic VA2431wm Monitors; Focusrite 18i6 (ASIO); Komplete 9, Melodyne Studio 4, Ozone 7 Advanced, Rapture Pro, GPO5, Valhalla Plate, MJUC comp, MDynamic EQ, lots of other freebie VST plugins, synths and Kontakt libraries
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musicroom
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Re: So, so disappointed with Producer X2
2013/09/25 16:42:30
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thebiglongy
stevec
thebiglongy
Always love these posts. You can guarantee some will flock in to proclaim it's the best thing in the world.
Perhaps it's because many people actually do pefer it over 8.5 or earlier? It is possible.
I wasn't referring to those who preferred 8.5, I was speaking of those who chime in on how great the X series is compared to it.
Haven't seen that type of post thus far. My stance is I like the X series better than the 1 thru 8.53 series. Since I've owned/used all from version 3 on up, I have a good point of reference. 8.53 was okay, but cluttered and dark to work with for me. That version is the reason I switched to reaper for over a year. The X series brought me back. Different strokes. What the X Series is missing from my pov is a good built-in audio editor, easier audio quantizing, improved track/project navigation, improve fx control. Of course those have all been missing in the now beloved 8.5 version as well.
Dave Songs___________________________________ Desktop: Platinum / RME Multiface II / Purrfect Audio DAW I7-3770 / 16 GB RAM / Win 10 Pro / Remote Laptop i7 6500U / 12GB RAM / RME Babyface
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yevster
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Re: So, so disappointed with Producer X2
2013/09/25 16:56:27
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The one thing that's been lost since 8.5 is the ability to access every function of every PRV tool without switching tools. SmartTool comes close, but still doesn't do everything. For the functions it doesn't include, tool switching is required, and sometimes that means switching modes within a tool. Every time the user has to keep track of the mode of the program, that's a design smell, and it still hasn't been remedied. For everything else, using the toolbar/control bar for routine elements of workflow is inefficient in the first place. Touch will not take off beyond the matrix view for several reasons: 1. Touching a vertical surface is not ergonomic. 2. A DAW presents a high concentration of information requiring either a precise pointing device (which a finger isn't) or a large amount of real estate. The problem with consuming a large amount of real estate is having to shift visual focus from one point to another (which is why Sonar's side-docked Pro Channel will never be as natural to use as it would be if it could pop up wherever the cursor is). 3. Touch may be a great way to control faders in the console view, but, unlike conventional faders and knobs, touch faders cannot be manipulated without looking at them. Besides, the console view itself is a vestige of 20th century hardware-centric design philosophy. It is far more straightforward and efficient to mix and produce in a single view, and based on all kinds of videos being made today (including Pensado's Place), DAW consoles seem to be going out of style.
post edited by yevster - 2013/09/25 18:22:22
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daveny5
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Re: So, so disappointed with Producer X2
2013/09/25 16:58:29
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There is definitely a learning curve for anyone moving from Sonar 8.5 and earlier to the X series. Some people just can't stand change. I like change, but it took me a while to get used to it, but Cakewalk has made quite a lot of free video help to get you through it. Maybe you should take a look at some of those.
Dave Computer: Intel i7, ASROCK H170M, 16GB/5TB+, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Sonar Platinum, TASCAM US-16x08, Cakewalk UM-3G MIDI I/F Instruments: SL-880 Keyboard controller, Korg 05R/W, Korg N1R, KORG Wavestation EX Axes: Fender Stratocaster, Line6 Variax 300, Ovation Acoustic, Takamine Nylon Acoustic, Behringer GX212 amp, Shure SM-58 mic, Rode NT1 condenser mic. Outboard: Mackie 1402-VLZ mixer, TC Helicon VoiceLive 2, Digitech Vocalist WS EX, PODXTLive, various stompboxes and stuff. Controllers: Korg nanoKONTROL, Wacom Bamboo Touchpad
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TerraSin
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Re: So, so disappointed with Producer X2
2013/09/25 17:06:13
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I actually like the UI of X2. I think there is certainly room for improvement on it, but it was a step in the right direction.
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