delonasn
 The reason I've stuck with Cakewalk all these years is because I knew the product well.  

Did you use the versions prior to 8.5???

yevster
The one thing that's been lost since 8.5 is the ability to access every function of every PRV tool without switching tools. SmartTool comes close, but still doesn't do everything. For the functions it doesn't include, tool switching is required, and sometimes that means switching modes within a tool. Every time the user has to keep track of the mode of the program, that's a design smell, and it still hasn't been remedied.
 
For everything else, using the toolbar/control bar for routine elements of workflow is inefficient in the first place.
 
Touch will not take off beyond the matrix view for several reasons:
1. Touching a vertical surface is not ergonomic.
2. A DAW presents a high concentration of information requiring either a precise pointing device (which a finger isn't) or a large amount of real estate. The problem with consuming a large amount of real estate is having to shift visual focus from one point to another (which is why Sonar's side-docked Pro Channel will never be as natural to use as it would be if it could pop up wherever the cursor is).
3. Touch may be a great way to control faders in the console view, but, unlike conventional faders and knobs, touch faders cannot be manipulated without looking at them. Besides, the console view itself is a vestige of 20th century hardware-centric design philosophy. It is far more straightforward and efficient to mix and produce in a single view, and based on all kinds of videos being made today (including Pensado's Place), DAW consoles seem to be going out of style.

Hmmm... Honestly, I don't think I've ever changed tools in the PRV.   I add notes, delete notes, move notes, stretch notes, change velocities, etc., using the Smart Tool.   The only time I do choose a different tool is either when using the Mute tool for audio clips or one of the automation shapes, though I typically use the F keys for that, not the control bar.   So I'm geniunely curious what's missing in the PRV because maybe there's something I could be using more that I'm not.
 
Re: touch, if I had the funds I've have a nice 27" monitor at about a 30 degree angle, positioned just above my keyboard and mouse.   But alas, I do not.    Yet.  
 
 
PS... I do use a BCF2000, but always have to look at that too, at least to get my orientation.
 

yevsterTouch will not take off beyond the matrix view for several reasons:
1. Touching a vertical surface is not ergonomic.
2. A DAW presents a high concentration of information requiring either a precise pointing device (which a finger isn't) or a large amount of real estate. The problem with consuming a large amount of real estate is having to shift visual focus from one point to another (which is why Sonar's side-docked Pro Channel will never be as natural to use as it would be if it could pop up wherever the cursor is).
3. Touch may be a great way to control faders in the console view, but, unlike conventional faders and knobs, touch faders cannot be manipulated without looking at them. Besides, the console view itself is a vestige of 20th century hardware-centric design philosophy. It is far more straightforward and efficient to mix and produce in a single view, and based on all kinds of videos being made today (including Pensado's Place), DAW consoles seem to be going out of style.

I've never seen a single person who uses a touch screen for actual work use it on a vertical 90 degree angle.
 
My ideal workstation would be to have my normal monitor sitting at 90 degrees with my trackview, my touchscreen below it at 30 degrees with my console view, and my third monitor off to the side for whatever I need it for. This resolves the real estate problem.
 
It would take some time to get use to, but we're becoming more aware of the virtual space. Younger generations would pick up a digital touch mixing console a lot easier and faster than people who have used a physical console their whole lives, but I and many others believe it's the future. Touchscreens in the past couple years now have become extremely accurate with a very low touch response time. I believe it's Microsoft that has nailed the 0ms touch response delay just last year on a multi-touch screen. Eventually it will become just as commonplace as using a digital keyboard on a smartphone and it will be up to DAW programmers to keep up with the new race of having the best and intuitive console and editing interfaces that work brilliantly with touch.

yevster
You don't use drag quantize, I take it. To get to it in the x-series, you have to select the edit tool and then make sure it's in the "timing" mode.

It doesn't matter how you switch tools. Each tool is a mode, under which the program behaves differently, and the user is tasked with keeping track of what mode the program is in. It's like using vi. :)

Ah... I'm aware of it, but no, it's not something I've used.   Do you have a typical use-case for it vs. regular quantize?  I understand what it does - "dynamically" quantizing a group of notes by dragging left or right - I've just never thought of a scenario that made me think to use it.
 
 

BlixYZ
who would buy x2 right before x3 comes out? 

BenMusTech did.

stevec
Ah... I'm aware of it, but no, it's not something I've used.   Do you have a typical use-case for it vs. regular quantize?  I understand what it does - "dynamically" quantizing a group of notes by dragging left or right - I've just never thought of a scenario that made me think to use it.
 

Yep, you're close. You select a bunch of notes in the PRV and then, holding down a modifier, drag the mouse up or down. As you drag up, notes move closer and closer to the nearest beat (or whatever quantize unit you've selected). As you drag down, notes move away from it. Quantizing fully to grid can create a robotic feel. But drag qunatize gives you instant visual control of how tight your notes will be without making them robotic. My scenario is when I record myself playing a keyboard. Either due to latency, MIDI jitter, or incompetence, my notes can often be out of whack. Drag Quantize brings them into whack again. :)
 
You can try it out by switching to the "edit" tool and selecting "timing". Then you have to switch back to the smart tool to do everything else. Or, once the Timing option is selected under the edit tool, you can just hold down F8 to do drag quantize and let it go to do everything else. But, if you press F8 one time too many, the Edit tool will switch to some other tool, and then you have to press it again to cycle through all the other edit tools until you arrive on the "timing" tool. This worked much better in Sonar 8.x

Huh... I do like the idea of seeing the quantize results in real-time.  I don't know that it's something I'll use a lot since I often make adjustments within a phrase after quantizing (usually ~ 80-90%), but I will definitely need to keep this one in mind.   Thanks, Yev. 
 

Sorry don't mean to Hi-jack this thread.

scook
So when you posted that you solved the spike it was not the case? http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/2880428 It did not appear to the SONAR related at that time.

I thought it was resolved when I posted that but it is not.
So, I just quit posting, I tried everything that was suggested.
I actually finally had to just go back to X1 yesterday and it's so far so good.
I loaded up the same song with the same plugs running and no problems.
So, I don't have a clue other than it IS something in X2.
Although when installed X1 there were 2-3 "C++redistributable's" that were installed.  
Perhaps that was the problem?  Maybe I will try X2 again at a later date.

I run a mobile demo studio service and must use the smallest laptops possible, even netbooks. The new interface has been bad for me.
 
X1 lost me 15% of screen space because the new tracks need more room for the same displayed information. That's not better.
 
The bottom scroll bar is now ABOVE the tabs, wasting more vertical space (in 8.5 they are next to each other, the scroll bar occupying only half the width - much better).
 
The new PC and track inspector introduces huge colored knobs which waste yet more space. 8.5 had just numbers or sliders with numbers integrated. - much better.
 
And most PC modules are sinfully wasteful with space, with analog-looking meters and colossal Saturation knob. Why why why?
 
At the bottom of the track inspector/PC is one single button labeled "Display", losing another 5% of precious vertical space. It is the only button on the bottom. The rest of the space is empty, wasted. Why? It is for settings, it is not used often. Put the button on the top, or as a right-click menu. This is not better.
 
Introducing TOUCH is good and future-thinking. But if I think touch, I think horizontally held screens. -- which means SMALL screens. THAT is also part of the future, for tracking work especially.
 
I appeal to the bakers to review the X interface and see how 8.5 offered more overview on less screen real-estate. From X2a on only Win7 is supported, so I must soon get new Win8 touch notebooks, I feel like I am condemned to paint the entrance hall of my house through the letterbox. 

delonasn
I should have stuck with Producer 8.5.  Cakewalk, you ruined the interface!  The GUI is *definitely* inferior to what it was.  What were you thinking?  Didn't you do any user testing?  Did MBAs take over management?  Engaged in groupthink over there?  
 
Geez, I can't figure out how to do any of the standard things I used to do routinely.  Pretty much have to relearn the product from scratch, which is a huge waste of time.  Even after weeks of working with it, I'm still struggling with simple operations because you've removed menu items.
 
Your bizarre UI decisions have cut my productivity by an order of magnitude, completely unnecessarily.  The reason I've stuck with Cakewalk all these years is because I knew the product well.  That's no longer true at all.  This might as well be Cubase or Pro Tools.
 
If it ain't broken, DON"T FIX IT!
 
And you didn't even fix V-Vocal, which *was* broken and is still too unstable to be very useful.
 
Wow.  Really, really bad.  Shame on you.
 
--Nick

Maybe if you had participated in the forum, you could have cut down your frustration by getting assistance with the UI changes.
 
X1 was a complete redo of the UI, and the 8.5.3 black arts UI is gone, unless you continue to use 8.5.3, which you are certainly free to do.
 
I don't think it particularly fair to blame Cakewalk for you not seeking assistance when you got stuck.  Besides the forum, there were and are all kinds of good videos, as well as great books with tons of good information on using X1 and X2.
 
Why don't you grab a mitt and get in the game?  There are LOTS of folks here to help you with the transition.
 
Bob Bone
 

Mystic38
...a post count of TWO...fire and forget...

 
He left us hanging in his earlier thread too:
http://forum.cakewalk.com...Sonar-85-m1838712.aspx

JazzSinger
I run a mobile demo studio service and must use the smallest laptops possible, even netbooks. The new interface has been bad for me.
 
X1 lost me 15% of screen space because the new tracks need more room for the same displayed information. That's not better.
 
The bottom scroll bar is now ABOVE the tabs, wasting more vertical space (in 8.5 they are next to each other, the scroll bar occupying only half the width - much better).
 
The new PC and track inspector introduces huge colored knobs which waste yet more space. 8.5 had just numbers or sliders with numbers integrated. - much better.
 
And most PC modules are sinfully wasteful with space, with analog-looking meters and colossal Saturation knob. Why why why?
 
At the bottom of the track inspector/PC is one single button labeled "Display", losing another 5% of precious vertical space. It is the only button on the bottom. The rest of the space is empty, wasted. Why? It is for settings, it is not used often. Put the button on the top, or as a right-click menu. This is not better.
 
Introducing TOUCH is good and future-thinking. But if I think touch, I think horizontally held screens. -- which means SMALL screens. THAT is also part of the future, for tracking work especially.
 
I appeal to the bakers to review the X interface and see how 8.5 offered more overview on less screen real-estate. From X2a on only Win7 is supported, so I must soon get new Win8 touch notebooks, I feel like I am condemned to paint the entrance hall of my house through the letterbox. 

 +1111
 
The 'X' series wasn't hard to learn - it was just really irritating. So true about wasted space - such that it made it nearly impossible for me to have an all-the-time overview of any project. And no, the overly fussy screensets didn't help.

jb101
I was gobsmacked when I first fired up the X series, but watching the Cake videos, and Scott's Sonar Power book helped a lot.
 Now, I couldn't imagine going back to pre X series.  For me, it is a huge step forward.

+1
I was tearing my hair out at first but the 'new' GUI is miles better.  I fired up 8.5 the other day and couldn't believe how cluttered and button-y it was!  Stick with it; once through the pain barrier you'll be flying along, honest.

I love X2.  I had a couple of songs that I couldn't open because of the files somehow becoming corrupt.  I was pissed for a minute.  Notified support and never did get those files opened.  That's the nature of the beast, computers.  I had a choice to make "Get busy living or get busy dying".  Negativity will cause an early demise.  I thought of all the positives that X2 had to offer and moved on!  Just saying!