Helpful ReplySoftube Saturation Plugin

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jb101
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Re: Softube Saturation Plugin 2014/07/02 11:05:16 (permalink)
John T
I've not done any objective testing on it, but to my ears, it doesn't leave any frequency range completely untouched, wherever you set it. The switch seems to bias it one way or the other, but in practical use, it always comes down to flipping the switch back and forth and using trial and error to get the a sound that does what you want.


 
I agree, John.   When set to "Keep High" there is a bias towards the highs being "saturated", but all frequencies are affected.  The opposite when set to "Keep Low".  I have not often found a situation for using the "Keep Low" setting, personally.
 
For vocals I often use the VX-64 EQ section to apply saturation to only the highs.  Sometimes this works better, sometimes the Softube Knob sounds better.

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#31
brconflict
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Re: Softube Saturation Plugin 2014/07/02 17:05:27 (permalink)
The Tape Sim is pretty good. I, however, have not had good results from the Saturation. Everything I've tried it on seemed to fare better without. Not to say it isn't a good plug-in, but rather to be used very sparingly.

Brian
 
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#32
LA2A
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Re: Softube Saturation Plugin 2014/07/02 18:41:14 (permalink)
brconflict, i concur!
 
 
Anyway, Softube seems not to state clearly exactly which mode does what, but a careful read of their comments would suggest that they have labelled the graphic face-plate obtusely. 
 
From the Softube website... "If you want to squash a drum loop but 'keep the bass drum fairly intact', you can for example use the Keep Low mode."
 
I have done some quick tests of this plugin just now and found their instruction to be correct, although they could have worded the modes a bit more pertinently; i myself would have written different wording on the graphics face-plate, something like...
 
1: Hit mostly High freq
2: Hit Full Spectrum
3: Hit mostly low freq
 
The current wording on it suggests the opposite of what it actually does.
 
Anyway, it seems my understanding of this plugin was influenced by only 'one' of the 'two' webpages describing the Softube saturation plugin at the Presonus website; they have used more articulate wording showing that it is not a Tape saturation emulation on another of their webpages: strange that Presonus have two different webpages to explain the ins-&-outs of the Softube saturation Knob... I just found this second load of spiel over at the Presonus website as follows... "The Saturation Knob is an easy-to-use, versatile way to add 'tape-saturation-like' distortion to your tracks. The knob controls the amount of saturation, and you can switch between three different distortion characteristics.
With the switch set to Neutral, the entire frequency spectrum of the sound gets distorted when you turn up the Saturation knob. Put it on "Keep High", and the saturation will mainly affect the lower part of the frequency spectrum, while the top end stays clear. With "Keep Low" selected, the low end will retain its clear sound, and only the high-frequency components of the sound will get distorted."
 
Anyhow, after my own tests i still continue to find this plugin inadequate for the majority of my purposes, it seems to introduce a type of brittle harshness even at the lowest 0.1 setting and yet it doesn't do anything at 0, so it appears that it is more suited to adding aggressive distorted tone when needed, but i definitely have very little use for such an effect.
I would think that the reason Softube gives this away free to Cakewalk, Presonus and Avid for their DAWs is because Softube have deemed it not good enough to sell and that there are 'free' plugins that perform as good and even better, and thus they give it away to these DAW manufacturers to serve a better purpose of free advertising to keep the Softube brand fresh in our minds. 
 
Over at Propellerheads in the "Extension rack" section of their website, there is an official quote from a big-time producer about the Softube offerings which i found quite ridiculous, like the following...
 
"Softube is so good, after using it the first time, I could speak french. Mainly because I kept saying: Pardon my french, but these plugins are f-ing unbelievable! The FET Compressor in particular is probably the warmest, fattest compressor plugin on the market."
 
 
My response to that would be that this guy obviously hasn't used the Slate Digital compressor emulations. Which leads me to ask, is there any such thing as a "Warmest, Fattest compressor"? From what i've heard of Softubes compressors the answer is definitely no! But from what i've heard of Slate Digital, well it really doesn't get any warmer and fatter than that. Slate Digital's compressor emulations are the only ones i would ever dare to call "The warmest, fattest compressor plugins on the market"
 
Secondly, it's strange how Softube requires 330mbs for a single compressor emulation and Slate Digital only requires 80mbs for what is clearly a superior product. Obviously the world of coding emulation algorithms is a jungle.
I also remember Native Instruments have some of their high-end compressor and EQ plugins provided by Softube and i was not impressed with them at all, and that was 'before' finding-out that they were made by Softube for Native Instruments!
#33
SvenArne
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Re: Softube Saturation Plugin 2014/07/02 20:00:46 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby mettelus 2014/07/03 18:46:35
LA2A From what i've heard of Softubes compressors the answer is definitely no! But from what i've heard of Slate Digital, well it really doesn't get any warmer and fatter than that. Slate Digital's compressor emulations are the only ones i would ever dare to call "The warmest, fattest compressor plugins on the market"
 


Srsly, what's the deal with you and your impressions of Slate Digital's products? If you're going to push the plugs, can't you at least pretend/admit having used them?
post edited by SvenArne - 2014/07/02 20:14:26





#34
gswitz
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Re: Softube Saturation Plugin 2014/07/02 21:04:56 (permalink)
I like both the tape saturation and soft-tube plugs.
 
I have one friend I usually put a touch of the soft tube on. He plays a sweet acoustic guitar with a flat pick and it's nice to give his guitar a little bite.
 
It can take some of that fret rattle and make it a bit crunchy... kinda Dave Matthews style.
 
I think it sounds great on that.
 
And I sometimes split a bass sound using a multiband and soloing low and high freqs separately and the applying a touch on the higher freqs.
 
I would miss it for sure if it was gone. I use it on as many projects as I do the CA2A.

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
#35
Fabio Rubato
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Re: Softube Saturation Plugin 2014/07/03 00:22:38 (permalink)
sharke
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I'm not sure about Sausage Fattener's 64 bitness but it works fine in Sonar 64 bit.


I am not sure either, I need to check it out. The only problem I've had with it is that sometimes when you have the GUI open it seems to make everything else sluggish. However since the controls are so simple you can set them quickly and close it immediately. Great on bass and drums.

Okay, cheers mate. 

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#36
jps
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Re: Softube Saturation Plugin 2014/07/03 05:10:58 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby karhide 2014/07/03 07:01:53
Here is a great video showing the Saturation Knob doing its magic in a mix :-))

http://youtu.be/_ALJpZpHWKo

All the best
Jan
#37
brconflict
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Re: Softube Saturation Plugin 2014/07/03 12:13:11 (permalink)
LA2A
 
Anyhow, after my own tests i still continue to find this plugin inadequate for the majority of my purposes, it seems to introduce a type of brittle harshness even at the lowest 0.1 setting and yet it doesn't do anything at 0, so it appears that it is more suited to adding aggressive distorted tone when needed, but i definitely have very little use for such an effect.
 



That's the results I typically get from Saturation. I'm suspecting it was a discontinued plug-in from their own website, so, it could be deprecated code. I don't want to slam SoftTube or CW on this, but LA2A did state what it does (for me) better than I could.

Brian
 
Sonar Platinum, Steinberg Wavelab Pro 9, MOTU 24CoreIO w/ low-slew OP-AMP mods and BLA external clock, True P8, Audient ASP008, API 512c, Chandler Germ500, Summit 2ba-221, GAP Pre-73, Peluso 22251, Peluso 2247LE, Mackie HR824, Polk Audio SRS-SDA 2.3tl w/upgraded Soniccraft crossovers and Goertz cables, powered by Pass-X350. All wiring Star-Quad XLR or Monster Cable. Power by Monster Power Signature AVS2000 voltage stabilizer and Signature Pro Power 5100 PowerCenter on a 20A isolation shielded circuit.
#38
Del
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Re: Softube Saturation Plugin 2014/07/03 13:30:29 (permalink)
jps
Here is a great video showing the Saturation Knob doing its magic in a mix :-))

http://youtu.be/_ALJpZpHWKo

All the best
Jan



Thanks jps for this video connection, I hadn't seen this one before.... Interesting conclusions that he makes in the video with the material he was using it on.
 
That may be the bottom line.... how you use it and on what material.
 

Regards,
Del
 
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#39
LA2A
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Re: Softube Saturation Plugin 2014/07/03 18:24:59 (permalink)
SvenArne

Seriously, what's the deal with you and your impressions of Slate Digital's products? If you're going to push the plugs, can't you at least pretend/admit having used them?



I have and 'own' Slate Digital's VCC (Virtual console collection), plus the VBC (virtual bus compressors) also the VTM (virtual tape machines) plus the VG-X mastering plugin. They are the first and only third-party plugins i have found that actually do what the 'real' hardware counterparts do, they sound exactly like real hardware, to the letter! I couldn't continue to make music without them. 
 
Previously i was using the Overtone FC70 (A Fairchild Holy Grail 670 emulation), also the DCAM Dynamics (including the DCAM Bus compressor emulation), plus the revered "The Glue", plus Izotope's Ozone 5 and Alloy II products, and 'many' others (too many to name), and 'none' of them 'ever' reproduced the 'actual' tone and exact response characteristics of the 'real' hardware with associated real-life sonic signatures, not even close. My point... Slate Digital's plugins were a revelation to me! I simple couldn't make music without them now.
 
In fact, now that i think about it, i'm gonna contact Slate Digital begging them to do an La2a emulation; i would love to finally have an emulation mimicking exactly what the real-life La2a does (apparently there were four versions of the real-life La2a as shown by Motu with their "Masterworks Leveler"); IMO if Slate Digital were to do an La2a emulation, that would finally give us this legendary compressor set-in-stone forever, and all inside our DAW, wow! I have the Cakewalk CA2A and it does not convince me, i am not impressed by it, same goes for the IK Multimedia versions of legendary compressors.
 
 
#40
John
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Re: Softube Saturation Plugin 2014/07/03 18:51:18 (permalink)
So LA2A I take it you have tested the plugins you mentioned against the actual hardware units they are meant to emulate? May I ask how was this testing done? 

Best
John
#41
Leadfoot
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Re: Softube Saturation Plugin 2014/07/03 18:54:48 (permalink)
Here we go again...
#42
John
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Re: Softube Saturation Plugin 2014/07/03 19:29:50 (permalink)
Leadfoot
Here we go again...

What does that mean? When an assertion is made wouldn't it make sense to find out the basis for that assertion?

Best
John
#43
SvenArne
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Re: Softube Saturation Plugin 2014/07/03 19:35:09 (permalink)
John
What does that mean? When an assertion is made wouldn't it make sense to find out the basis for that assertion?


Normally, I'd agree with you, but in this particular case..?





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Leadfoot
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Re: Softube Saturation Plugin 2014/07/03 19:36:31 (permalink)
I didn't mean any offense toward you, John. It's just that this thread is starting to sound similar to LA's thread a few weeks ago regarding "Pro Channel Authenticity".
#45
jb101
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Re: Softube Saturation Plugin 2014/07/03 19:39:17 (permalink)
John
So LA2A I take it you have tested the plugins you mentioned against the actual hardware units they are meant to emulate? May I ask how was this testing done? 




Off course he hasn't, John.  He read some marketing blurb on Slate's site.
 
He obviously hadn't listened to the Sat Knob, either, or he would have known what the "Keep High/Low" switch did.
 
Or if he had listened to it, then he is too cloth-eared to be able to tell the difference.
 
Neither of these really qualify him to judge the sound of the Sat Knob.  Or much else, for that matter.
 
He seems to base his knowledge on reading information posted on company websites, from what I can tell.
 
Anyhow, hope life is good with you, John.

 Sonar Platinum
#46
ltb
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Re: Softube Saturation Plugin 2014/07/03 20:00:42 (permalink)
LA2A
In fact, now that i think about it, i'm gonna contact Slate Digital begging them to do an La2a emulation; 

IIRC the FG-401 from his upcoming VMR release is a modded 1176.
#47
John
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Re: Softube Saturation Plugin 2014/07/03 20:51:38 (permalink)
It seems the forum is way ahead of me.   Needless to say you guys are great!

Best
John
#48
LA2A
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Re: Softube Saturation Plugin 2014/07/04 15:32:38 (permalink)
John
So LA2A I take it you have tested the plugins you mentioned against the actual hardware units they are meant to emulate? May I ask how was this testing done? 




 
 
In response to my assertions about Slate Digital plugins another forum member here, SvenArne, commented to another forum member "Normally, I'd agree with you, but in this particular case..?"
 
This forum member was obviously commenting in relation to the credibility of my own assertions, so i will make clear that this whole subject is really only a matter for those who are actually interested in the authenticity of certain plugins, because if you are happy to use plugins that just give you a similar vibe and character of the originals, then it won't be important to you what i have to say, that i understand. Nonetheless, clearly the comments made suggest that some members might not give much credence to my word as a music producer. Therefore lets put it this way, my word would probably not suffice or hold much weight with you guys, obviously my opinion would be of no consequence to you, regardless of any tests i've done, so don't take my word for it, take the word of industry experts instead, i'll show you what they have said; they would be worth listening to more than me, right? Lets see the words of respected industry experts and therefore i'll quote their words to help you understand what i'm saying about the Slate Digital plugins, you might take them a bit more seriously than me. I myself happen to be close friends with a Roland engineering consultant (he works for Roland corporation), and we have collaborated on a few tracks together, and previous to using the Slate Digital plugins, i had told him that i was using 'digital' plugin replications of the LA2A etc on some tracks (i was not using Slate plugins at that time), and although he is a wise man with extensive audio experience that does not mouth-off and get into negatives, he did comment to me that "these digital plugins don't really replicate the sound of the 'real thing'.
 
I was not surprised at all to hear him tell me that because i agreed with him, I already knew that, but anyhow I told him we'll just work with it for now.
 
But also, Rupert Neve himself made some statements not long ago which i will quote for you right here, these words came out of Rupert Neve's own mouth verbatim as follows... "The whole question of digital has been something which has worried me for some considerable time, and i never have thought that digital can deliver the depth and perspective of first-class analog: as we have listened to some of the plugin systems of others, I HAVEN'T BEEN IMPRESSED AT ALL, but having now listened to the VCM technology, this is something which i'm completely convinced that the new VCM technology actually delivers the depth and perspective and sweetness of sound which i've aspired to in analog. I now can't tell any difference between the two!"
 
These statements from Rupert Neve were referring to the Yamaha/Steinberg VCM technology behind some of their recent supplementary plugin offerings, but it proves that Repurt Neve is saying the same thing i have been saying about 99% of digital plugins 'previous' to using the Slate Digital plugins.
Since we have here another statement from Yamaha's own pro-audio website as follows... "Yamaha’s innovative “K’s Lab” division, is a circuit modeling concept that effectively simulates the most detailed characteristics of individual circuit components, right down to capacitors and resistors, resulting in astonishingly realistic circuit simulations that easily outclass conventional digital plugin simulations. But accuracy isn’t the only consideration, the actual musicality is essential as well, and VCM modeling delivers both." 
 
So if you then still want me to qualify my assertions about the Slate Digital plugins, then don't take my word for it, take the word of Stephen Slate himself, either he's lying, or he is only the second person in history to accomplish the same end as Yamaha's VCM technology. Because didn't Stephen and his team say that it was all the modelling of non-linear response characteristics done at the component level, including the distortions and noise and cross-talk etc that they also sought to model, just like yamaha? Well yes, they did say that, and they took the same approach as the Yamaha VCM team, but then after the extensive testing for final approval before release, here are the exact words of Stephen verbatim as follows... "Either we re-create the 'exact sound' of what these machines are doing, or we don't release the plugin! It's either 100% or 0% (meaning we won't release it), we won't 'compromise' when it comes to analog."
 
Jay Baumgardner is a hardcore analog music engineer from way back when, he is a famed Platinum selling producer familiar only with real-world studios, but he said this following statement in response to Slate Digital's plugins as follows... "I now put these plugins on all my mixes, they 'totally nailed it'!
 
The famed mastering engineer Howie Weinberg, said himself that he initially called Stephen crazy for even suggesting that he could emulate the real deal, but after Stephen finished his work and Howie Weinberg took a listen, he said... "You know what, I'm crazy for not believing him, I'm in!"
 
Shall we allow Stephen Slate himself to qualify his own plugins? Lets see what he said as follows... "We don't stop, we don't release these plugins until in 'blind' listening tests people can't tell the digital from the actual analog pieces, and so that's what we've done here"
 
 
So now, I myself for example have used many Tape Saturation plugins of many kinds from Third Party sources, including Nomad Factory "Magnetic II", and yet i knew i wasn't getting the true sound of Tape, but i wasn't the only one who knew this; the head programmer for Stephen Slate, Fabrice Gabriel, said before they started working on their VTM Tape emulation... "Stephen and I were convinced that the sound of Tape was still not authentically modelled in the digital domain, in fact, it didn't seem that anyone had actually captured the essence and feeling of a real Tape machine, we wanted to change that scenario, so we designed an algorithm so close to the Tape sound that you can not distinguish a track recorded to a real Tape machine versus the same track processed with our algorithm"
 
 
Lets see what Sam Inglis said in his Sound-on-Sound review October 11 as follows... "Sound On Sound is not a monolithic organisation, and the half‑dozen or so of us who make and record music have wildly differing tastes like our colleague Hugh Robjohns, I had expected that Slate's VCC would polarise opinion within the office, but perhaps the biggest endorsement I can offer is that it did nothing of the kind. Everyone here who has tried it, regardless of their preferences or style of mixing, has independently reached almost exactly the same opinions I've set down in this review. I'll be using VCC on every mix I do from now on — and I won't be alone...
 
 
There you have it folks, these words hold more weight than anything i might say or any tests i've done. And also, remember, the proof is in the pudding, which becomes self explanatory, and therein lies the answer for the authenticity of Stephen Slate's plugins.
Remember, instead of questioning the validity of my statements, you can use the demos for yourself, and also listen to the previous words of industry experts who have tested Stephens plugins, and i'm sure you'll draw the same conclusions as me. The truth is the truth, right? Let the truth speak for itself. Any company who achieves such high levels of algorithm replication i will always endorse and give kudos to, and it appears that Yamaha and Slate Digital are the only two companies to achieve this. I have heard UAD plugs, i have heard Waves plugs, and there are free plugins that perform as good or even better than these companies, and why? Because these two companies didn't achieve 100% emulation, it's that simple really! If you A/B tests of the La2a emulations done by UAD and IK MUltimedia and Cakewalk, you will hear a big difference between these plugins, a difference in the modelling, which of them got it right? Well none actually. The difference between these plugins is vastly different than the minor inconsequential differences between the actual real-life analog units, so what gives?
post edited by LA2A - 2014/07/04 15:49:01
#49
Sanderxpander
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Re: Softube Saturation Plugin 2014/07/04 15:54:34 (permalink)
If you take for granted the marketing speak of a company trying to sell their own product (including bought opinions by experts) you're going to find a ton of amazing plugs that sound just like the real thing. That's just not the case. I think the problem people have with you here is that you seem dead set on holding one company's marketing like gospel truth while crapping on other products. None of us is saying Slate is crap. I would call some of their plugs clearly better than some offerings included in Sonar. That does not mean tey are perfect, nor does it mean there is nothing better out there nor that the stuff included with Sonar is worthless.
#50
SvenArne
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Re: Softube Saturation Plugin 2014/07/04 16:14:34 (permalink)
LA2A

 
You really are an astonishing poster: You lay the hidden trap, wait.., some replies come in, you post some filler and exposition, wait.., some a little more opinionated replies show up.., AND THEN YOU SPRING THE TRAP!! Going on in an intense frenzy like just now! It's quite a unique deal here on this forum!
 
You clearly have a knack for underhanded verbosity and it looks like you're having the time of your life. How about getting to work on that novel?
 
 





#51
Beepster
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Re: Softube Saturation Plugin 2014/07/04 16:22:00 (permalink)
SvenArne
LA2A

 
You really are an astonishing poster: You lay the hidden trap, wait.., some replies come in, you post some filler and exposition, wait.., some a little more opinionated replies show up.., AND THEN YOU SPRING THE TRAP!! Going on in an intense frenzy like just now! It's quite a unique deal here on this forum!
 
You clearly have a knack for underhanded verbosity and it looks like you're having the time of your life. How about getting to work on that novel?
 
 




I'm okay with reps from other companies popping in to offer their wares if they are honest about it and make it fully known who they work for. This fellow is a sneak and I think I'm going to specifically avoid buying Slate plugs just to spite him.
 
Also I've seen plenty of complaints about their stuff not playing nice with Sonar. Add to that the enormous expense... well fuggedaboutit.
 
How ya like them apples, LA2A? If that is indeed your real name. lulz.
#52
SvenArne
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Re: Softube Saturation Plugin 2014/07/04 16:41:01 (permalink)
Beepster
This fellow is a sneak and I think I'm going to specifically avoid buying Slate plugs just to spite him.
 

 
Well, I don't wanna live in a world where good, friendly companies like Slate Digital are actually paying internet moles to spearhead complex marketing operations...
post edited by SvenArne - 2014/07/04 17:02:38





#53
jb101
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Re: Softube Saturation Plugin 2014/07/04 17:05:21 (permalink)
He is a joke, bless him.

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#54
Beepster
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Re: Softube Saturation Plugin 2014/07/04 17:14:01 (permalink)
Leadfoot



Oh, hey. I was going to PM to thank you for the kind words a few days back but alas you seem to have that option disabled. Sooo thanks. Lifted my spirits and don't worry... I don't foresee going anywhere anytime soon. Cheers.
#55
Leadfoot
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Re: Softube Saturation Plugin 2014/07/04 17:35:53 (permalink)
Beepster
Leadfoot



Oh, hey. I was going to PM to thank you for the kind words a few days back but alas you seem to have that option disabled. Sooo thanks. Lifted my spirits and don't worry... I don't foresee going anywhere anytime soon. Cheers.

Hey buddy, no need to thank me. :) I'm glad it lifted your spirits. Glad you won't be going anywhere. :) Ya know, I tried to enable the PM's once. I guess it didn't work. I'll have to try it again. Thanks for letting me know about it!
#56
mettelus
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Re: Softube Saturation Plugin 2014/07/04 17:39:08 (permalink)
I don't own any Slate plugins, and based on posts like this, I would never buy one, even if they were a great deal. LA2A has turned me against Slate forever. Your comments make me (personally) not want to ever give Slate a chance.

ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
#57
LA2A
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Re: Softube Saturation Plugin 2014/07/04 17:56:17 (permalink)
Beepster said... "I'm okay with reps from other companies popping in to offer their wares if they are honest about it and make it fully known who they work for. This fellow is a sneak and I think I'm going to specifically avoid buying Slate plugs just to spite him."
 
The thing is i don't work for anyone or any third-party plugin company and i never have, i simply give my opinion, which as i showed was shared by reputable guys in the industry. To fog it off as them being paid is a bit of a cop-out don't you think? I've never met Stephen Slate in my life, so it appears we have false allegations against me, again.
Anyway, why would famed producers and mastering engineers need to make a false statement? That would ruin their reputation, right? If what they say isn't true then that would make them a laughingstock, why would they do that to themselves? And anyhow, such people are already millionaires, why would they need a few thousand dollars from Stephen Slate to tell a lie????????????????
#58
SvenArne
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Re: Softube Saturation Plugin 2014/07/04 18:05:00 (permalink)
LA2A
[...]such people are already millionaires[...]



You'd be surprised... An engineer doesn't get royalties, you have to live from day to day on the jobs you get. Your pay is a miniscule part of the money that goes into big-time record production.
 
Kinda reminds me of a thread on GearSlutz where the OP suggested it would be a good idea if the Lord-Alge brothers bought Waves. Then some knowledgable poster came along and stated that Waves' LAWYERS made more money than the Lord-Alges. That was pretty funny...
post edited by SvenArne - 2014/07/04 18:44:31





#59
Sanderxpander
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Re: Softube Saturation Plugin 2014/07/04 18:08:45 (permalink)
Dude, you can't even count how many industry pro's have heaped praise on the Waves stuff that you dismiss. Arturia gets praise from top keyboardists all the time saying their products are indistinguishable from real vintage synths but I still bought a Moog Voyager, a MicroMoog and a JX10 because it simply isn't true.
It's called marketing, it's exactly like lying except the judge says it's ok.
#60
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