AHA!
 
I discovered the reason for my difficulty... with alt-click splitting...
 
I've been expecting it to split the clip I click on and what I realize now is that I must first select the clip. then alt-click works fine splitting exactly where I want...
 
Now I have to see how working with monitoring/auditioning clips split uniquely will work. I seem to remember the other day that something I was doing was causing the clips to continually get chopped up without my intending to do so....
 
Probably me again missing the obvious! ;-)
 
Time will tell...
 
I must admit that being forced to re-learn to do this once simple work has been interesting. I still have more to go to get back my basic needs for editing (comping to me is a part of editing) and mixing
 
I meant to post this earlier... I actually wrote it just before 10am and it's now 7:43pm... My client actually showed up on time and just left... So I'm hoping my thoughts are complete in this... I have not re-read it as I'm a bit burnt...
 
But I solved one confusion and it was all on me... Not unusual... ;-)
 
Thanks for helping me pinpoint this Everybody...
 
Keni
 
 
 

I ran into some interesting things today regarding Lanes and other things...
 
My clients today came in with tracks recorded in 8.5.3... I opened them in X3d
 
On many tracks where they had multiple layers, some seemed normal and others strange... I don't know how or why...
 
I found a few locations where they had overlapping clips on the same Lane... For that matter, I found a few Lanes with a number of clips on top of each other (total) so that the topmost obscured whatever was below... All without fades of any kind (we don't use auto crossfade much)...
 
A little difficulty working in the Lanes, but I was able to do everything with a touch of cursing and a number of things redone...
 
My biggest problems were usually issues about zoom.... I'll post that elsewhere as it is related to more than the Lane zoom issues, but Lane zoom is still not useful to me at all... I never get close to what I want, so I must manually drag the lane to it's max height and then use another tool to zoom horizontally.... Very slow and tedious...
 
But at least Lanes didn't get chopped up weird and I was able to draw in my fades slowly (zoom, zoom, zoom) ;-)
 
Keni
 

Anderton

Keni
 
I discovered the reason for my difficulty... with alt-click splitting...
 
I've been expecting it to split the clip I click on and what I realize now is that I must first select the clip. then alt-click works fine splitting exactly where I want...

FYI I specified in a response to you in another thread about Take Lanes that you had to select the clip and then alt-click.
 

 
Hate to stir the pot on this any more than it already has been, but it should work with nothing selected as well.
 

Keni
I feel that a good adjustment to this behavior would be an additional modifier for the alt-click so that when used it would do both, select the clip and execute the split with a single command... That would save an additional click every time...

 
It does work that way for me with no additional modifier. Selecting in advance is not necessary, and there are options in Editing Preferences for whether the left side, right side or both sides of the clip are left selected after splitting.
 
 

Anderton 
Here are some things you CAN'T do with Take Lanes (at least I haven't figured out how):
 

• Do automatic crossfades within a Lane, because clips within the same lane can't overlap. Workaround: Create a new Take Lane, move the clip you want to crossfade into it, and do a manual fade in/fade out for the overlapping clips. [Edit: Actually you can do crossfades on the Comp clip in the parent track if the Take Lanes aren't showing - see Brundlefly's post #4 below]

I just noticed this one. Actually you can do essentially do automatic crossfades within a take, just differently.  Use ALT+click within a lane to split a lane.  Then use the "cross comp tool" to make the fade between the two clips.  It takes an extra click to do it, but the nice thing compared to the auto crossfade option is that you can then move the entire crossfade around, adjusting its location and size, as a single unit.  This is a great feature of the cross comp tool and something I wish was available in tracks.  Note that this is the one way I am aware of where you can have clips overlapping within a lane.  
 
Here is where it gets more complicated.  Using the crossfade tool on the track with linear fades will result in the exact same thing as a fade on the take.  You can create the fade with takes collapsed using automatic crossfades, then expand the takes and use the cross comp tool on the crossfade.  But, on the track you can also make edits to the crossfade (e.g., linear vs. slow or fast, fade in and out at different rates) that you can not establish within takes, but you can edit within takes if it is already established within the track. If you create such an uneven/non-linear fade, the cross comp tool will no longer work at all on it. 
 
This to me is all unnecessarily confusing and adds to the frustration with takes.  Yes you can do what you want, but with many "this tool works here but not here" type situations that makes it is hard to remember how to do basic edits.  I don't think this is just a matter of rethinking my workflow from layers - had I never used Sonar at all before I think I would have the same problems and suggestions.
 
I suggest CW can consolidate some of these tools to make them as consistent as possible between tracks and takes.  For example, how about a single tool for crossfades that is the best of both worlds and is consistent (to the extent possible)  between takes and lanes?  Basically use the cross comp tool but with the added flexibility to adjust fade ins and outs the same as we can do in tracks, and make it available on both tracks and lanes.
 
 

neirbod

Anderton 
Here are some things you CAN'T do with Take Lanes (at least I haven't figured out how):
 

• Do automatic crossfades within a Lane, because clips within the same lane can't overlap. Workaround: Create a new Take Lane, move the clip you want to crossfade into it, and do a manual fade in/fade out for the overlapping clips. [Edit: Actually you can do crossfades on the Comp clip in the parent track if the Take Lanes aren't showing - see Brundlefly's post #4 below]

I just noticed this one. Actually you can do essentially do automatic crossfades within a take, just differently.  Use ALT+click within a lane to split a lane.  Then use the "cross comp tool" to make the fade between the two clips.  It takes an extra click to do it, but the nice thing compared to the auto crossfade option is that you can then move the entire crossfade around, adjusting its location and size, as a single unit.  This is a great feature of the cross comp tool and something I wish was available in tracks.  Note that this is the one way I am aware of where you can have clips overlapping within a lane.  
 
Here is where it gets more complicated.  Using the crossfade tool on the track with linear fades will result in the exact same thing as a fade on the take.  You can create the fade with takes collapsed using automatic crossfades, then expand the takes and use the cross comp tool on the crossfade.  But, on the track you can also make edits to the crossfade (e.g., linear vs. slow or fast, fade in and out at different rates) that you can not establish within takes, but you can edit within takes if it is already established within the track. If you create such an uneven/non-linear fade, the cross comp tool will no longer work at all on it. 
 
This to me is all unnecessarily confusing and adds to the frustration with takes.  Yes you can do what you want, but with many "this tool works here but not here" type situations that makes it is hard to remember how to do basic edits.  I don't think this is just a matter of rethinking my workflow from layers - had I never used Sonar at all before I think I would have the same problems and suggestions.
 
I suggest CW can consolidate some of these tools to make them as consistent as possible between tracks and takes.  For example, how about a single tool for crossfades that is the best of both worlds and is consistent (to the extent possible)  between takes and lanes?  Basically use the cross comp tool but with the added flexibility to adjust fade ins and outs the same as we can do in tracks, and make it available on both tracks and lanes.

More very helpful info...I think that if I do my job right, an article laying out all these techniques in an orderly way would make it easier to become familiar with all these tools. However, I do agree the tools could be streamlined (particularly with MIDI where I often need to switch among tools to do basic edits).

Anderton

Keni
 
I discovered the reason for my difficulty... with alt-click splitting...
 
I've been expecting it to split the clip I click on and what I realize now is that I must first select the clip. then alt-click works fine splitting exactly where I want...

FYI I specified in a response to you in another thread about Take Lanes that you had to select the clip and then alt-click.
 
BUT this isn't to give you a hard time! It's about the learning process. When your mindset was that Take Lanes didn't work, you overlooked something that would help you get better results out of Take Lanes. When you opened up to the possibility that Take Lanes would do what you wanted, you didn't need to be told, you found it for yourself (unless the tip had lodged into your subconscious).
 
This is a really important point about learning software. If you enter the learning process thinking that things are possible, it's more likely you'll find a solution or if not, a workaround because you will see reality through the filter of that mindset. Similarly, if you don't think something will work, reality will be seen through the filter of that mindset. It's simply the way the human mind works.
 
Of course there are always circumstances beyond one's control, but the odds of finding a solution will improve if you think there is a possibility of finding a solution. Now that you're moving in a positive direction, I suspect you'll find more solutions   Keep doing what you're doing!

Thanks Craig...

I think you might misunderstand my attitude sometimes...

I always believe I can do something I tackle... But maybe the way I voice it throws some people... I wouldn't be trying if I didn't think it could, so I'm really saying "I" can't, not that it can't be done... I say that in hopes of someone teaching me or pointing me in a direction that can help... As it has in this case...

I'm still not pleased with the current implementation, but I'm managing to work with it and possibly over time I will appreciate it... Right now I'm still in the extra work to get the job done mod and not very happy with it...

Overall, I'm doing ok with X3d and pushing for some adjustments to make it better (to me at least ;-))

Keni

Just noticed I can't quote my own prior posts.  Interesting.
 
In any event in post #17 I talk about switching between lanes collapsed and expanded to take advantage of different behaviors.  I need to at least partially retract that.   I recently found that editing within take lanes is more flexible than I had thought as long as you toggle between smart and edit tools.  For example, using the edit tool you can slide the edge of one clip over and create an overlapping section with another clip - something not possible using just the smart tool.  You can also then change the type of fade to linear/fast/slow just like you can on the collapsed track, again using the edit tool - again not possible with the smart tool.  Using the hit keys F5 and F8 to switch between the two makes it easy.
 
About the only thing you can't do (as far as I know) in lanes that you can do on the collapsed comp track is to create auto-crossfades by extending one clip to overlap another. That being said, the cross fade tool in lanes is quite powerful just in a different way.  

Take Lanes needs a comprehensive video series showing someone editing multiple types of projects (multi-miced drums to a click, without a click, editing vocal phrasing, etc).  I find that words sometimes get lost when talking about this topic.  Perhaps it's just me :(
 
I also find it so weird that a feature that was meant to save time is causing threads on how to use it properly.  Shouldn't it be something Cakewalk makes sure their userbase knows how to use 100%?  There are videos, but many are simply choosing different parts of a performance and not editing sloppy playing, which many people do a LOT of.
 
Anywho, Anderton have you considered doing a video of this?  If you had a series on editing with the Take Lanes I'd pay to see it.

It took me quite a while to adjust...

But currently I use a seem to be able to work in F5 all the time... I don't use auto cross fades so that is never in my workflow. I find I can easily create the fades I want as I always have in the past... And a few of the comping tool attributes (clicking in lower half of clip to select the clip is a time saver for me and comes to mind)...

What is the tool at the bottom section of the leading edge of the clip? Something related to a mutual adjust of selected clips? I still don't have this one down but on occasion it has been handy... ;-)

Keni

Keni
What is the tool at the bottom section of the leading edge of the clip? Something related to a mutual adjust of selected clips? I still don't have this one down but on occasion it has been handy... ;-)

I think that the Smart tool has been extended in recent X3 versions so that if you hover the mouse near the bottom of a clip in a take lane, you get the "crossfade" tool, but if you hover it near the center of the clip edge, you get the normal "resize clip" tool.
 
I don't find the need to switch between "Smart" and "Edit" tool mode.
 
The functionality of layers is definitely closer/more accessible than it used to be in X3a.
 

I have overlapping clips frequently and still work with the smart tool by itself...

The functionality of Lanes has improved to the point where I could be happy with it if they could fix some of the view related issues... Losing the ability to see all the layers within a track's boundaries is a serious limitation to me... As are the zoom issues... If they could resolve these issues I could forget that we once liked layers better...

Keni

Keni
I have overlapping clips frequently and still work with the smart tool by itself...

Interesting. Did not think this was possible with the smart tool.  Whenever I edit clips with smart tool any overlapping clips are cropped.  I must be hovering over the wrong section of the clip and getting the wrong tool.