Marc2109
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Some has gone very wrong with Bounce to tracks
Just went up from X2 to X3. What took seconds to render to audio in X2 is taking a half hour in X3. What in the world is going on?
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Splat
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Re: Some has gone very wrong with Bounce to tracks
2013/12/17 21:52:22
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Please install X3D, ....and do it in a brand new project. If no dice, please give us the specifics please. We need to know your system (please update your footer like mine), and give us full steps to reproduce please (you are not giving us any real info to go, there are a thousand scenarios you could be explaining).... Thanks..
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SuperG
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Re: Some has gone very wrong with Bounce to tracks
2013/12/17 21:59:46
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Not likely it's X3 though... if there's a background process accessing the disk - that usually kills it ) and everything else too!)
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Splat
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Re: Some has gone very wrong with Bounce to tracks
2013/12/17 23:11:54
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Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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SuperG
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Re: Some has gone very wrong with Bounce to tracks
2013/12/17 23:35:36
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Yeah, that's good stuff too, Alex. There's also the resource monitor that's built into Windows, accessible through the (three-finger salute) task manager. That tool can sort processes by category (disk, CPU, memory, network) according to usage.
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Vastman
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Re: Some has gone very wrong with Bounce to tracks
2013/12/18 00:54:24
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luv it when someone "seems" to be posting a problem, gives no data surrounding the variables,uses hyperbolic language, then disappears for a long time after several suggestions/comments have been made... If ya got an issue, always tic "get instant notification" in the subscribe to thread thingy...seems the polite way to respect others time....
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soundtweaker
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Re: Some has gone very wrong with Bounce to tracks
2013/12/18 02:27:34
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Mine seemed to take forever in Xc but it's better in Xd. Not as fast as X2 was though. Yes fast bounce is enabled.
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Marc2109
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Re: Some has gone very wrong with Bounce to tracks
2013/12/18 10:03:22
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Disappears for a long time? I just posted this last night. Since nothing else in my system has changed, only switching from X2 to X3, and X2 performs the bounce perfectly a few seconds. I didn't think that giving complete system information was really necessary. I guess I was wrong. I apologize. Sonar X3 latest patch, Windows 7 64 bit, Maudio Fast Track Ultra. It is a single Kontakt 5 track I am trying to render. 24 bit 44.1. I tried it again last night. When I woke up this morning it was about 90% done.
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Marc2109
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Re: Some has gone very wrong with Bounce to tracks
2013/12/18 10:16:22
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Sorry. not the latest patch, but X3. I forgot ask, what background processing would effect X3c that would not do the same thing regarding X2? I performed these bounces the first time in both daws with an hour. I have never had this problem in X2, and did bounces day in and day out. I don't see a process suddenly popping in out of nowhere that just happens to kick in at the same time I try a bounce in X3c. I'm sorry but I am not a real technical Windows 7 user so my thinking may be a little naive.
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MarioD
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Re: Some has gone very wrong with Bounce to tracks
2013/12/18 10:17:52
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I am using Kontakt 4 and X3a, b, c and now d and my bounces only take seconds. Have you tried a new project with a single Kontakt 5 track and does it also take a long time? Also are there another programs running in the background such anti-virus/malware programs?
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Marc2109
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Re: Some has gone very wrong with Bounce to tracks
2013/12/18 13:48:05
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Thanks for the help you guys. Just Ad Aware.. but that was also running under X2. I did see the first response about trying a new project with X3D which I will do tonight and post the results. Who knows, X3d could fix the whole thing. It just shocked me that the bounce took over 14 hours.
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Splat
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Re: Some has gone very wrong with Bounce to tracks
2013/12/18 14:01:45
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> Just Ad Aware Are you sure you aren't running any other antivirus software? Never install 2 at the same. I would consider another antivirus product other than ad-aware, I don't want to start a large conversation on what antivirus to use (this thread will explode), so let me just point you to this thread: http://forum.cakewalk.com/Microsoft-Securtiy-Essentials-m2947912.aspx Anyways enough to go on for the moment, just the beginning I suspect... Please can you go through this thread from the beginning and keep us updated to what you have done, plenty of points here to take heed. Thanks..
post edited by CakeAlexS - 2013/12/18 14:19:10
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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mettelus
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Re: Some has gone very wrong with Bounce to tracks
2013/12/18 14:17:16
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OMG... yes, *please* install the X3d patch and let us know. I personally would be significantly more than "shocked" on a 14 hour bounce.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Some has gone very wrong with Bounce to tracks
2013/12/18 14:41:23
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I just bounce a Dim Pro track, (a Pad) about 1:54 in length and it took about 10 seconds, including drawing the waveform on the bounced track
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Anderton
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Re: Some has gone very wrong with Bounce to tracks
2013/12/18 14:55:50
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Hopefully the X3d patch will help, but I've done plenty of Kontakt bounces using all versions of X3 without problems. Having never had to find a workaround, I don't really have any suggestions other than grasping at straws. Background processes, e.g. a hard drive scan from an anti-virus program, is indeed an option. But I was also wondering if you're running out of RAM or hard drive space. RAM would be particularly problematic because of the size of many Kontakt libraries. Also, both of these could be affect with no changes other than using X3 instead of X2 due to other factors, like programs that decide to take up more of a RAM footprint running concurrently with Sonar. This is definitely not normal behavior so there should be a fix.
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CBJ
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Re: Some has gone very wrong with Bounce to tracks
2013/12/18 16:48:33
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Hi Marc2109 I would check a few things coming from X2. Seems that the configuration file has not read your audio device correctly. At least the basic settings. Usually the new install will read the audio settings and use them since X2 is assumed to be working. If X2 is still installed and running on your computer go and check the following areas that I have noted below and write them down so you can use them as a comparison reference between X2 & X3. Go to preferences and pay attention to the following areas. #1 : File>Audio Data - >Bit Depth
- >Render Bit Depth
#2 : Audio>Driver Settings - Audio Bit depth
- Sampling Rate
All the bit depths have to be correct before any of the rendering and bouncing can operate correctly. I have also removed most of the options in the bounce to drop down list because I only use three mix down procedures. I don't know if this will do the trick for you but it can't hurt to check these settings. I use these a lot and they are one of the best time savers that digital audio has to offer. Good luck Marc!
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Some has gone very wrong with Bounce to tracks
2013/12/18 16:53:43
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Try deleting or renaming your existing aud.ini file. Sonar will build a new one the next time it's opened. You can find it here: C:\Users\Username\AppData\Roaming\Cakewalk\SONAR X3 Producer AppData is a hidden folder so you will have to switch on the option to view hidden files in Windows Explorer
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Some has gone very wrong with Bounce to tracks
2013/12/18 17:13:16
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Some things to try: -export to a different hard drive -make sure realtime bounce isn't checked -look at the performance tab in task manager and see if you are running low on memory during the bounce -bouncing another project and see if it exhibits the same problem -uncheck the option to include fx in the bounce and see if it speeds up. if so some plugin may be causing the issue -check if the project contains audio snap. -reset your audio configuration (preferences | configuration | reset configuration )
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Splat
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Re: Some has gone very wrong with Bounce to tracks
2013/12/18 17:44:44
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-look at the performance tab in task manager or process explorer which is nicer rer :) #4... Cheers...
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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Marc2109
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Re: Some has gone very wrong with Bounce to tracks
2013/12/18 21:18:36
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Thanks for all the suggestions...I'm working through them. Here are the results from tonight's tests: I installed X3D, then created a 2 minutes Kontakt 5 Midi file in a new project. It rendered in about 15 seconds. I went back to the project i was working on with the 14 hour render, and picked a shorter midi track and started rendering it. After 10 minutes it was about 5% done. I made no audio settings changes from the new project to the old one. I reset the audio configuration and tried again with the same results. I tried a different project and a midi file about the same length as the troubled project track and it rendered in less that 30 seconds. Help me think this through...if audio settings or the aud.ini file are the culprit, wouldn't i have the slow render problem with both projects not just the old one? I will still go back and make a careful comparison and delete the aud.ini. So far it looks like the problem is in the project itself. Two different softsynth tracks with the same extremely slow render. I still have over 80GB hd space on the drive. The memory looks like its only taking about 25%. If its an issue with this particular project, then I am in for an immense amount of work to fix it, since it contains over 30 softsynth tracks. So trying to think ahead if this project can't be rendered to audio, is there an easier way that writing down all the synths and patches used and copying the midi tracks into a new project and re-inserting all of the softsynths? I bet I would still loose all my automation.
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: Some has gone very wrong with Bounce to tracks
2013/12/19 00:36:43
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Its likely project related. I think by a process of elimination you can find what is leading to the issue. Save a backup of the project before messing with it though. Then remove synths one by one till the problem goes away. Another thing to try - save the project as a bundle then reopen it and try again. Saving as a bundle will remove any audiosnap elements.
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KPerry
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Re: Some has gone very wrong with Bounce to tracks
2013/12/19 05:01:11
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Do you have 64 bit audio engine enabled? I have a couple of plug-ins which suffer from this when bouncing down with 64 bit audio engine on.
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Marc2109
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Re: Some has gone very wrong with Bounce to tracks
2013/12/24 09:52:17
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Actually I have no audio plugins in the project at this time. However, I turned off the 64 bit audio engine and that seems to have fixed it. Strange though because I use that in X2 with no issue, and also other X3 projects. OH well, at least its solved!! Thanks everyone for your help!
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Anderton
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Re: Some has gone very wrong with Bounce to tracks
2013/12/24 12:21:29
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Marc2109 Actually I have no audio plugins in the project at this time. However, I turned off the 64 bit audio engine and that seems to have fixed it. Strange though because I use that in X2 with no issue, and also other X3 projects. OH well, at least its solved!! Thanks everyone for your help!
Can we put [Solved] in the title?
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brundlefly
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Re: Some has gone very wrong with Bounce to tracks
2013/12/24 12:31:00
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Since SONAR uses the ASIO buffer size for offline rendering by default, make sure X2 and X3 are both set the same. I've not seen that kind of extremely slow rendering, but I have seen bounce/export fail completely for some synths/FX when the buffer was too small. There's a parameter in AUD.INI called BounceBuffSizeMsec that you can set to control the offline bounce buffer size. It's set to zero by default which tells SONAR to use the real-time ASIO buffer size for offline processing as well. Setting it to something between 20 and 200 (milliseconds) can improve offline bounce performance. Going bigger won't buy you much, and can cause issues with RAM limitations on export of very large projects. I've had mine at 20 for a long time with now without issues (aside from the bug with Bitbridge that causes an extra empty buffer of audio to be added to the front of the bounce, make the content late - not a problem with Jbridge). There could also be an issue with some FX that's had a VST3 version substituted for VST2 in X3 - just a thought.. EDIT: Oops missed the part about 64-bit engine. Still might be worth trying a larger bounce buffer. In any case, I imagine the Bakers would like to have a look at that project to see what the issue is.
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rebel007
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Re: Some has gone very wrong with Bounce to tracks
2013/12/24 18:27:59
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Agree with resaving the project. Oft times the simple fact of physically changing the space on the HDD where the project is saved can make a world of difference.
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