Taurean Mixing
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Re: Sonar 2017.06 mouse pointer fix?
2017/07/02 14:26:45
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chuckebaby
Taurean Mixing
Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
Need clarification on this. We would not have shipped with something fundamentally broken like that so it's not a general issue across all configurations.
Track selection is working here as is making strips active, all from the Track View.
You can make strips active by clicking the name control or the icon (if not a synth) or empty space on the track.
Keith does this video clear it up?
https://www.dropbox.com/s...9mfw/Untitled.avi?dl=0
cant seem to open this link
Im getting an error: Error (4xx)
Thanks Chuck, not sure why the link truncated like that. It should be good now, I edited the post. And this should be the link https://www.dropbox.com/s...ntitled.avi?dl=0
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Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
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Re: Sonar 2017.06 mouse pointer fix?
2017/07/03 17:14:38
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Taurean Mixing
Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
Need clarification on this. We would not have shipped with something fundamentally broken like that so it's not a general issue across all configurations.
Track selection is working here as is making strips active, all from the Track View.
You can make strips active by clicking the name control or the icon (if not a synth) or empty space on the track.
Keith does this video clear it up?
https://www.dropbox.com/s...9mfw/Untitled.avi?dl=0
As you see, and as I mentioned before, with the tracks collapsed, they are not selectable by clicking the number area. When you open or expand the track then normal behavior resumes. Although you can see group selecting is possible dragging across several tracks even if they are collapsed. But yea, something is off here after the April update.
Please report what running this util from the cmd prompt shows: http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/dump_edid.html Thanks.
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Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
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Re: Sonar 2017.06 mouse pointer fix?
2017/07/03 20:38:18
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Bob, I sent ya a PM with a 2nd util as the nirsoft one said your display is 7 inch diagonal (16 x 9 cm) which doesn't sound right. I want to validate that the data is really what that's reporting. If that data is wrong that would explain the behavior you are running into. Is that your only display? If not then you could try using the other one as the primary monitor.
Keith
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Taurean Mixing
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Re: Sonar 2017.06 mouse pointer fix?
2017/07/03 20:42:52
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Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
Bob, I sent ya a PM with a 2nd util as the nirsoft one said your display is 7 inch diagonal (16 x 9 cm) which doesn't sound right. I want to validate that the data is really what that's reporting. If that data is wrong that would explain the behavior you are running into. Is that your only display? If not then you could try using the other one as the primary monitor.
Keith
Ah that could explain it then. I have two displays. The main one is 42" and the secondary 21" so yea no 7" lol But why all of the sudden is this an issue, I suppose that confused some users including myself. April and before releases didn't bring this on but anything after does. Ok thanks Keith, checking PMs now.
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Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
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Re: Sonar 2017.06 mouse pointer fix?
2017/07/03 20:51:24
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Taurean Mixing
Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
Bob, I sent ya a PM with a 2nd util as the nirsoft one said your display is 7 inch diagonal (16 x 9 cm) which doesn't sound right. I want to validate that the data is really what that's reporting. If that data is wrong that would explain the behavior you are running into. Is that your only display? If not then you could try using the other one as the primary monitor.
Keith
Ah that could explain it then. I have two displays. The main one is 42" and the secondary 21" so yea no 7" lol
But why all of the sudden is this an issue, I suppose that confused some users including myself. April and before releases didn't bring this on but anything after does. Ok thanks Keith, checking PMs now.
We were making improvements to general hit testing around various areas to make it easier to hit stuff based on DPI, in particular for various laptops/convertibles, etc. that have high pixel densities. However, unknown to us at the time, nothing like standards to be ignored, were these other devices misreporting their size. Those wrong sizes are resulting in some strange calculations and these issues. Most desktop or laptop users aren't running into these. But for these other connected displays, it seems the standard isn't correctly implemented. Once we get enough data about how the calcs are failing, we can try and work around the issue while still keeping the benefit. Thanks.
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Taurean Mixing
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Re: Sonar 2017.06 mouse pointer fix?
2017/07/03 21:01:31
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Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
Taurean Mixing
Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
Bob, I sent ya a PM with a 2nd util as the nirsoft one said your display is 7 inch diagonal (16 x 9 cm) which doesn't sound right. I want to validate that the data is really what that's reporting. If that data is wrong that would explain the behavior you are running into. Is that your only display? If not then you could try using the other one as the primary monitor.
Keith
Ah that could explain it then. I have two displays. The main one is 42" and the secondary 21" so yea no 7" lol
But why all of the sudden is this an issue, I suppose that confused some users including myself. April and before releases didn't bring this on but anything after does. Ok thanks Keith, checking PMs now.
We were making improvements to general hit testing around various areas to make it easier to hit stuff based on DPI, in particular for various laptops/convertibles, etc. that have high pixel densities.
However, unknown to us at the time, nothing like standards to be ignored, were these other devices misreporting their size. Those wrong sizes are resulting in some strange calculations and these issues. Most desktop or laptop users aren't running into these. But for these other connected displays, it seems the standard isn't correctly implemented. Once we get enough data about how the calcs are failing, we can try and work around the issue while still keeping the benefit.
Thanks.
Could it by chance relate to TV's being used as computer monitors? In addition, not using VGA ports but DVI and HDMI?
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musicman61554
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Re: Sonar 2017.06 mouse pointer fix?
2017/07/03 22:44:30
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Yea this pointer issue is odd. I hadn't updated for awhile and everything was going smoothly until I upgraded my monitor to a 4K one. As soon as I started Sonar I lost most of my control bar functions. The hotkeys work but I cant actually PRESS the buttons. They don't do anything. Kind of annoying when you are used to pressing them. Just tried the new update......still an issue.
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JohnEgan
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Re: Sonar 2017.06 mouse pointer fix?
2017/07/04 03:06:27
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Taurean Mixing
Could it by chance relate to TV's being used as computer monitors? In addition, not using VGA ports but DVI and HDMI?
If it helps support this idea Im using a 32" Samsung LCD TV for monitor with HDMI, but 2017.06 resolved most except the individual track/clip selection issue, (which was not the same behaviour/offset as it was in 2017.05 version). But Ill try it out using VGA next time I try re- update. cheers
John Egan Sonar Platinum (2017-10),RME-UFX, PC-CPU - i7-5820, 3.3 GHz, 6 core, ASUS X99-AII, 16GB ram, GTX 960, 500 GB SSD, 2TB HDD x 2, Win7 Pro x64, O8N2 Advanced, Melodyne Studio,.... (2 cats :(, in the yard).
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JohnEgan
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Re: Sonar 2017.06 mouse pointer fix?
2017/07/04 13:03:39
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Taurean Mixing
Could it by chance relate to TV's being used as computer monitors? In addition, not using VGA ports but DVI and HDMI?
"If it helps support this idea Im using a 32" Samsung LCD TV for monitor with HDMI" OK so if it helps, this seems to support your idea. I tried out 2017.06 using only my LG 24" computer monitor, through DVI connections on both card and monitor (GTX 960 doesn't have an actual VGA type connector, to try on Samsung 32"). and I dont have this issue, i.e. pointer functions normally selecting in track number box to highlight track clips. If Im using both, Samsung 32" (HDMI) and LG 24" (DVI) as an extended second monitor, the pointer issue exists in both monitors, i.e., if I move Sonar to display only in LG 24", the pointer issue persists. Cheers
John Egan Sonar Platinum (2017-10),RME-UFX, PC-CPU - i7-5820, 3.3 GHz, 6 core, ASUS X99-AII, 16GB ram, GTX 960, 500 GB SSD, 2TB HDD x 2, Win7 Pro x64, O8N2 Advanced, Melodyne Studio,.... (2 cats :(, in the yard).
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Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
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Re: Sonar 2017.06 mouse pointer fix?
2017/07/04 14:22:15
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Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
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Re: Sonar 2017.06 mouse pointer fix?
2017/07/04 14:31:15
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musicman61554
Yea this pointer issue is odd. I hadn't updated for awhile and everything was going smoothly until I upgraded my monitor to a 4K one. As soon as I started Sonar I lost most of my control bar functions. The hotkeys work but I cant actually PRESS the buttons. They don't do anything. Kind of annoying when you are used to pressing them. Just tried the new update......still an issue.
Nothing was changed in that area. If you are using a 4K display, you'll likely need to change the scaling in Windows to be able to get a workable size. 100% will be too tiny to see/click. There should be a setting that's recommended, so start with those in display settings.
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Taurean Mixing
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Re: Sonar 2017.06 mouse pointer fix?
2017/07/04 14:36:22
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JohnEgan
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Re: Sonar 2017.06 mouse pointer fix?
2017/07/04 16:50:20
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Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
Win 7 only understands system DPI so I believe the primary monitor sets the DPI for both which would explain why you have the issue on both.
Ok thanks, its a little over my head (the inf and registry stuff) but Ill mess around with the primary monitor order and see if that works for me. Likely be going to Win10 soon also, also hope to be going to touch monitor soon as my primary monitor. Will post what I find. Cheers
John Egan Sonar Platinum (2017-10),RME-UFX, PC-CPU - i7-5820, 3.3 GHz, 6 core, ASUS X99-AII, 16GB ram, GTX 960, 500 GB SSD, 2TB HDD x 2, Win7 Pro x64, O8N2 Advanced, Melodyne Studio,.... (2 cats :(, in the yard).
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Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
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Re: Sonar 2017.06 mouse pointer fix?
2017/07/04 17:16:10
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Taurean Mixing
Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
Win 7 only understands system DPI so I believe the primary monitor sets the DPI for both which would explain why you have the issue on both.
The root cause of the problem is incorrect EDID data in the VESA standard of what the TV has stored in EEPROM. However, while you could get the TV possibly flashed to update it's EEPROM (some hackers have managed that). A much easier approach is to utilize an override inf that Microsoft has made provision for. It will override the incorrect data with corrected data. I'd advise anyone with this issue to pursue that approach or ensure the TV isn't the primary.
Here's some links about the issue:
https://www.google.com/search?q=edid+data+from+tv+incorrect&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS723US729&oq=edid+data+from+tv+incorrect&aqs=chrome..69i57.8883j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/display/overriding-monitor-edids
Hi Keith, just to be clear, you had mentioned in the PM to me that from that Dump data I sent you, you were able to reproduce this issue. So will there be a fix for this?
Yes, we're going to try and find a work-around. FWIW, my home TV reports it's 1 inch diagonal :P 16 mm x 9 mm. Clearly incorrect, and I had wondered why HDMI output to it wasn't quite right. I had a similar experience with a touch monitor I used to use. I had to use VGA out to it to get the picture lined up. K
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Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
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Re: Sonar 2017.06 mouse pointer fix?
2017/07/04 17:18:07
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JohnEgan
Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
Win 7 only understands system DPI so I believe the primary monitor sets the DPI for both which would explain why you have the issue on both.
Ok thanks, its a little over my head (the inf and registry stuff) but Ill mess around with the primary monitor order and see if that works for me. Likely be going to Win10 soon also, also hope to be going to touch monitor soon as my primary monitor. Will post what I find.
Cheers
Right, I brought it up in order for you to look for an updated inf from the Manufacturer. I have seen driver updates like that before that were just an .inf file that was installed. So if you can find one to download for your hardware, it's easy to right click and choose install. If that fixes it great. Otherwise yeah if you had to create an inf to override values, that would be quite a chore even for me.
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JohnEgan
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Re: Sonar 2017.06 mouse pointer fix?
2017/07/05 03:13:18
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Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
Right, I brought it up in order for you to look for an updated inf from the Manufacturer. I have seen driver updates like that before that were just an .inf file that was installed. So if you can find one to download for your hardware, it's easy to right click and choose install. If that fixes it great. K so I set LG computer monitor to primary monitor, and it resolves issue in Samsung TV monitor, exactly as you indicated, its just a bit awkward to work with this arrangement. So next Ill try to find an inf solution (so I dont have rearrange my desk, LOL). Cheers
John Egan Sonar Platinum (2017-10),RME-UFX, PC-CPU - i7-5820, 3.3 GHz, 6 core, ASUS X99-AII, 16GB ram, GTX 960, 500 GB SSD, 2TB HDD x 2, Win7 Pro x64, O8N2 Advanced, Melodyne Studio,.... (2 cats :(, in the yard).
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dcumpian
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Re: Sonar 2017.06 mouse pointer fix?
2017/07/05 12:39:47
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JohnEgan
Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
Right, I brought it up in order for you to look for an updated inf from the Manufacturer. I have seen driver updates like that before that were just an .inf file that was installed. So if you can find one to download for your hardware, it's easy to right click and choose install. If that fixes it great.
K so I set LG computer monitor to primary monitor, and it resolves issue in Samsung TV monitor, exactly as you indicated, its just a bit awkward to work with this arrangement. So next Ill try to find an inf solution (so I dont have rearrange my desk, LOL).
Cheers
You could try using something like DisplayFusion to override how Windows determines which screen is primary and leave the hardware as is. It might allow Windows to see the LG as primary so the calculations are correct, yet still swap the screens virtually. I've done this in my setup and it works fine, though both of my screens are the same resolution, I wanted a particular display one one side versus the other. Regards, Dan
Mixing is all about control. My music: http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.
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JohnEgan
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Re: Sonar 2017.06 mouse pointer fix?
2017/07/05 13:31:21
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dcumpian
You could try using something like DisplayFusion to override how Windows determines which screen is primary and leave the hardware as is.
Cool, Ill check it out, yea I have secondary monitor right, so mouse moves to right for secondary (and my computer, AI and other stuff are rack mounted on right, (so Id have to get a new longer DVI cable also to reach), also it would seem awkward to me having secondary on left. Thanks Dan for DisplayFusion reference, and your time Cheers
John Egan Sonar Platinum (2017-10),RME-UFX, PC-CPU - i7-5820, 3.3 GHz, 6 core, ASUS X99-AII, 16GB ram, GTX 960, 500 GB SSD, 2TB HDD x 2, Win7 Pro x64, O8N2 Advanced, Melodyne Studio,.... (2 cats :(, in the yard).
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Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
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Re: Sonar 2017.06 mouse pointer fix?
2017/07/05 19:19:56
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Just an update, turns out TVs typically put aspect ratio in the bytes that we were expecting to refer to physical size.
So that explains it. Linux has struggled with determining this as well, so I'm not alone :)
What I'm seeing is that we seem to get size data from computer displays but from TVs not so much. We'l implement a fix for this to keep the benefit for the devices that need it without these crazy breaks for those of you using TVs.
Don't worry about getting a new inf it won't do anything to help.
This has been an interesting one for sure!
Keith
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Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
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Re: Sonar 2017.06 mouse pointer fix?
2017/07/05 19:23:18
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BTW, you can simply drag reorder the boxes in the display settings to have one or the other left/right top/bottom.
That might be all you need to do.
Sure it might show as [2] [1] but that's ok.
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JohnEgan
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Re: Sonar 2017.06 mouse pointer fix?
2017/07/05 19:40:28
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Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
We'l implement a fix for this to keep the benefit for the devices that need it without these crazy breaks for those of you using TVs. Don't worry about getting a new inf it won't do anything to help.
This has been an interesting one for sure!
Keith
Great, I may have also learned more about TVs/and monitors than I wanted to, LOL. Cheers
John Egan Sonar Platinum (2017-10),RME-UFX, PC-CPU - i7-5820, 3.3 GHz, 6 core, ASUS X99-AII, 16GB ram, GTX 960, 500 GB SSD, 2TB HDD x 2, Win7 Pro x64, O8N2 Advanced, Melodyne Studio,.... (2 cats :(, in the yard).
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JohnEgan
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Re: Sonar 2017.06 mouse pointer fix?
2017/07/05 19:58:26
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Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
BTW, you can simply drag reorder the boxes in the display settings to have one or the other left/right top/bottom.
Yea I tried messing with that, and display desktop only on 2 option, I think issue was where other applications open when not using 2 monitors. Anyway, no worries, it was interesting, I think Ill just be patient with 04 till fix, got lots to learn still from previous updates anyway, and book-full of Craig's tips. LOL. Appreciate all the efforts to resolve this. Cheers
John Egan Sonar Platinum (2017-10),RME-UFX, PC-CPU - i7-5820, 3.3 GHz, 6 core, ASUS X99-AII, 16GB ram, GTX 960, 500 GB SSD, 2TB HDD x 2, Win7 Pro x64, O8N2 Advanced, Melodyne Studio,.... (2 cats :(, in the yard).
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dcumpian
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Re: Sonar 2017.06 mouse pointer fix?
2017/07/05 20:16:09
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JohnEgan
Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
BTW, you can simply drag reorder the boxes in the display settings to have one or the other left/right top/bottom.
Yea I tried messing with that, and display desktop only on 2 option, I think issue was where other applications open when not using 2 monitors.
That was my experience, and what led me to DisplayFusion. And no, I own no stock in them, lol. Dan
Mixing is all about control. My music: http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.
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JohnEgan
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Re: Sonar 2017.06 mouse pointer fix?
2017/07/05 22:03:20
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dcumpian
That was my experience, and what led me to DisplayFusion. And no, I own no stock in them, lol.
Is that possible with the free version, or do you need to buy it (not that its a big expense) Cheers
John Egan Sonar Platinum (2017-10),RME-UFX, PC-CPU - i7-5820, 3.3 GHz, 6 core, ASUS X99-AII, 16GB ram, GTX 960, 500 GB SSD, 2TB HDD x 2, Win7 Pro x64, O8N2 Advanced, Melodyne Studio,.... (2 cats :(, in the yard).
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dcumpian
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Re: Sonar 2017.06 mouse pointer fix?
2017/07/06 02:03:59
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JohnEgan
dcumpian
That was my experience, and what led me to DisplayFusion. And no, I own no stock in them, lol.
Is that possible with the free version, or do you need to buy it (not that its a big expense)
Cheers
That, I couldn't say. Maybe there is a feature matrix on their site? I bought it on a recommendation from someone else. I haven't regretted it. Regards, Dan
Mixing is all about control. My music: http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.
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JohnEgan
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Re: Sonar 2017.06 mouse pointer fix?
2017/07/06 03:00:39
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dcumpian
That, I couldn't say. Maybe there is a feature matrix on their site? I bought it on a recommendation from someone else. I haven't regretted it.
K so likely not, so maybe Ill splurge the $15, LOL, (currently 50% off) Cheers
John Egan Sonar Platinum (2017-10),RME-UFX, PC-CPU - i7-5820, 3.3 GHz, 6 core, ASUS X99-AII, 16GB ram, GTX 960, 500 GB SSD, 2TB HDD x 2, Win7 Pro x64, O8N2 Advanced, Melodyne Studio,.... (2 cats :(, in the yard).
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Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
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Re: Sonar 2017.06 mouse pointer fix?
2017/07/06 15:24:47
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Or you could just wait until the update the addresses it.
I tested a fix at home last night with an older TV. :)
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Taurean Mixing
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Re: Sonar 2017.06 mouse pointer fix?
2017/07/06 15:56:29
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Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
Or you could just wait until the update the addresses it.
I tested a fix at home last night with an older TV. :)
nice 
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JohnEgan
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Re: Sonar 2017.06 mouse pointer fix?
2017/07/06 16:33:27
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Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
Or you could just wait until the update the addresses it.
I tested a fix at home last night with an older TV. :)
OK great, even better, since I mostly only use second monitor currently just to display/adjust RME TotalMix mixer when setting up and monitoring recording levels. But will soon be getting a higher end touch screen $$$$ which Ill use for drawing and animating, as well as primary monitor as SONAR console, and Samsung TV for secondary, and LG possibly as third. Otherwise, I now need to stop procrastinating and upgrade to Win10. LOL. (guess Ill have to buy it now) Thanks Cheers
John Egan Sonar Platinum (2017-10),RME-UFX, PC-CPU - i7-5820, 3.3 GHz, 6 core, ASUS X99-AII, 16GB ram, GTX 960, 500 GB SSD, 2TB HDD x 2, Win7 Pro x64, O8N2 Advanced, Melodyne Studio,.... (2 cats :(, in the yard).
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JohnEgan
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Re: Sonar 2017.06 mouse pointer fix?
2017/07/08 02:56:12
(permalink)
Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
Or you could just wait until the update the addresses it.
I tested a fix at home last night with an older TV. :)
Update 2, Everything looks great now for me now on TV monitor. Thanks Keith, Cheers
John Egan Sonar Platinum (2017-10),RME-UFX, PC-CPU - i7-5820, 3.3 GHz, 6 core, ASUS X99-AII, 16GB ram, GTX 960, 500 GB SSD, 2TB HDD x 2, Win7 Pro x64, O8N2 Advanced, Melodyne Studio,.... (2 cats :(, in the yard).
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