Jim Roseberry
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Re:Sonar 64, new DAW pc, simply incredible!
2010/08/24 15:03:14
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Are these both Win7 compatible? FWIW, I have them both running under Win7 x64.
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:Sonar 64, new DAW pc, simply incredible!
2010/08/24 15:05:19
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Hi Jim, the Audiophile is available as an internal sound card only, right? Would have to get somebody to install it for me. I'm a technical inept :-| I think the guys at "Music Store" (I'm from Germany) would do it for little to no charge if I bought it there. Still, are there any quality USB alternatives? I heard the Cakewalk UA-25 EX works quite well with Win 7 64x, but I need to know whether it allows for 64 samples buffer size. Have contacted ROLAND about it a few days ago, but haven't received a response yet. Other than that, the NI Audio Kontrol 1 looked great on paper at first (you also get a NI sampler of your choice for free), but despite there being official 64x drivers, their forums are full of complaints. Thanks Hi Ace, At $200, I'd stick with a PCI card. The Audiophile 192 is a good unit. If you want to go USB, I'd only recommend two units (FastTrack Ultra/8R or the RME Fireface UC) as these offer low round-trip latency on par with the best PCI/e units.
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:Sonar 64, new DAW pc, simply incredible!
2010/08/24 15:11:04
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But most of this seems to be coming from BitBridge crashes when instantiating or using certain plugins and/or instruments. Agreed If you're having issues, bridged 32Bit plugins would be one of the first things to examine. Many plugins cope just fine being bridged with BitBridge2... but some don't cope well at all.
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Jose7822
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Re:Sonar 64, new DAW pc, simply incredible!
2010/08/24 18:30:32
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Jim Roseberry
But most of this seems to be coming from BitBridge crashes when instantiating or using certain plugins and/or instruments.
Agreed
If you're having issues, bridged 32Bit plugins would be one of the first things to examine.
Many plugins cope just fine being bridged with BitBridge2... but some don't cope well at all.
...in which case it might be worth trying them in JBridge.
Intel Q9400 2.66 GHz 8 GB of RAM @ 800 Mhz ATI Radeon HD 3650 Windows 7 Professional (SP1) x64 Cubase 6.03 x64 Sonar PE 8.5.3 x64 RME FireFace 400 Frontier Design Alpha Track Studio Logic VMK-188 Plus http://www.youtube.com/user/SonarHD
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gustabo
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Re:Sonar 64, new DAW pc, simply incredible!
2010/08/24 18:51:15
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Sorry to break in but since this is about Sonar 64 running in Win7-64, is there a preference between Win7-64-Pro and Win7-64-Ultimate regarding a DAW? I'm making the move next week with a dual boot setup.
Cakewalk by Bandlab - Win10 Pro x64 - StudioCat Platinum Studio DAW - 32 GB Ram - MOTU UltraLite-mk3
M-Audio Keystation 88ES - Akai MPD26 (hot-rodded) - Alesis DM10 - a few guitars, a few amps
Novation Launch Control - Korg nanoKONTROL2 - PreSonus FaderPort - DAW Remote HD on iPad
Adam A7X - Behritone C50A
PreSonus Monitor Station v2 (controlling the mons)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/sonarusergroup/
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Jose7822
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Re:Sonar 64, new DAW pc, simply incredible!
2010/08/24 19:10:32
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I personally wanted Win 7 Pro because it has less services and features that are not needed for DAW work (mostly extra security and networking features) compared to Ultimate, and also because it supports the same max amount of RAM (192 GB) as the higher versions.
Intel Q9400 2.66 GHz 8 GB of RAM @ 800 Mhz ATI Radeon HD 3650 Windows 7 Professional (SP1) x64 Cubase 6.03 x64 Sonar PE 8.5.3 x64 RME FireFace 400 Frontier Design Alpha Track Studio Logic VMK-188 Plus http://www.youtube.com/user/SonarHD
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gustabo
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Re:Sonar 64, new DAW pc, simply incredible!
2010/08/24 19:29:52
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Thanks, that's the version I was leaning towards.
Cakewalk by Bandlab - Win10 Pro x64 - StudioCat Platinum Studio DAW - 32 GB Ram - MOTU UltraLite-mk3
M-Audio Keystation 88ES - Akai MPD26 (hot-rodded) - Alesis DM10 - a few guitars, a few amps
Novation Launch Control - Korg nanoKONTROL2 - PreSonus FaderPort - DAW Remote HD on iPad
Adam A7X - Behritone C50A
PreSonus Monitor Station v2 (controlling the mons)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/sonarusergroup/
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Jimbo 88
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Re:Sonar 64, new DAW pc, simply incredible!
2010/08/24 20:02:29
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I had a very similar experience as Danny did uping to 64 bit. Just too cool. But....after almost a year I am starting to push my ram and I'm starting to see the cpu meters move up....no complaints just an FYI Hard to imagine, but it will happen!
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Sijel
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Re:Sonar 64, new DAW pc, simply incredible!
2010/08/24 20:08:03
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I use Home version - I don't need the extra features of Pro or Ultimate for a DAW.
(Pro has a "backup module" - but I just xcopy off to USB 1TB drives.)
Microsoft Surface Book w/ Surface dock, dual 24-inch HD displays,
Sonar Platinum, THD 4, GuitarRig, Amplitube, (Kontakt4), Garritan PO, Trillian Bass 1.3, Roland Octa-Capture, Waves Gold & various Waves, PSP and T-Racks plugins.KRK Rokit6, Lefty Guitars & Bass, racks/pedals galore and many other fun things.
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John
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Re:Sonar 64, new DAW pc, simply incredible!
2010/08/24 20:11:39
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Like anything we humans tend to fill a void. If Sonar is not caring what we throw at it we throw more until we have it submitting to us. Then we complain. LOL Even I who is very conservative with plugins now use more now then I ever have and can't imagine going to a time when I thought before adding another plugin. Hey as long as I have the power I will use it. LOL One reason I should never run for President.
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Jose7822
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Re:Sonar 64, new DAW pc, simply incredible!
2010/08/25 00:01:44
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Sijel
I use Home version - I don't need the extra features of Pro or Ultimate for a DAW.
(Pro has a "backup module" - but I just xcopy off to USB 1TB drives.)
I would've gone with Home Premium if it wasn't for the RAM limit (16 GB). I'll probably surpass that with my next system sometime next year.
Intel Q9400 2.66 GHz 8 GB of RAM @ 800 Mhz ATI Radeon HD 3650 Windows 7 Professional (SP1) x64 Cubase 6.03 x64 Sonar PE 8.5.3 x64 RME FireFace 400 Frontier Design Alpha Track Studio Logic VMK-188 Plus http://www.youtube.com/user/SonarHD
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Danny Danzi
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Re:Sonar 64, new DAW pc, simply incredible!
2010/08/25 06:15:54
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Jim Roseberry
Ah, Scott Lerner....fantastic jazz/fusion guitarist there, Jim. Like exceptionally gifted jazz/fusion to the point of any experienced player saying "ummm, I think I'd like to hang up my guitar and watch". Great friend of mine actually....he lives about 20 minutes away from me. I've been playing blues, rock, classic rock, metal, pop etc for 31 years. I like to consider myself a pretty decent player. But, when you play with that guy...it goes beyond intimidation...it's more like "wtf was that...let me just watch please?" Really nice guy....I have to get him to buy a system from you. He's about due. Did my buddy Joey Harter get a hold of you? He's interested in a new DAW as well...I gave him your contact info...he said he would get in touch with you. Joey's a good guy...killer player too. ;)
FWIW, Scott had many good things to say about your playing (including drumming/singing) as well...
He just received his new DAW... and we were talking about the guitar playing community... and Sonar users in particular.
Scott is back in the Sonar camp... running v8.5 under Win7x64. 
I believe I Emailed Joey this past week... ;)
Waiting to hear back from him
BTW, Do you experience the stuck notes in both the 32Bit and 64Bit versions of Sonar?
Ah that's awesome you hooked Scott up. Aww that was nice of him to say. Last time he said good things about me, I had to send him a check. LOL! Glad Joey contacted you. See man, I'm pulling for ya. ;) The stuck notes thing happens in 32 and 64 bit Sonar. Gotta be somewhere in the MOTU. I'm about ready to see if it will run an older driver package just to be sure. I left a bit more of a detailed response in that thread about this....coulda swore I answered your 32/64 question as I remember you asking me that before. Thanks Jim! ;)
My Site Fractal Audio Endorsed Artist & Beta Tester
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Ace.trouble
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Re:Sonar 64, new DAW pc, simply incredible!
2010/08/25 15:38:29
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Jim Roseberry
Hi Ace,
At $200, I'd stick with a PCI card.
The Audiophile 192 is a good unit.
If you want to go USB, I'd only recommend two units (FastTrack Ultra/8R or the RME Fireface UC) as these offer low round-trip latency on par with the best PCI/e units.
The FastTrack Ultra looks fine, but to my knowledge there are no official Win 7 64x drivers available as of now (I don't know about the 8R model, though). I've decided to eventually spend a little more than 200 bucks and checked out the Cakewalk UA-101. I've read a review in a magazine and it's said to handle 11 tracks (with an overall 12 plugins) at 2 ms latency with 96 samples buffer size. Those are some pretty good numbers to me (and they were also related to a comparably weak, non-quadcore machine, too). Any thoughts/words you got on that device?
post edited by Ace.trouble - 2010/08/25 15:39:37
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:Sonar 64, new DAW pc, simply incredible!
2010/08/25 16:01:16
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Any thoughts/words you got on that device? It's an OK audio interface... Keep in mind that I'm talking about total round-trip latency... not one-way (playback) latency from the ASIO playback buffer. That unit's total RTL is significantly higher than the FastTrack Ultra and Ultra 8R. IOW, if you plug in a DI electric guitar and play/monitor that in realtime thru an AmpSim plugin... you won't be achieving anywhere near 2ms latency... it'll be upwards of double the 5.5ms that the FastTrack Ultra/8R deliver. If round-trip latency isn't a concern (don't intent to play/monitor in realtime thru software EFX), then you'll likely be happy with the UA-101. BTW, There are Win7 x64 drivers for both the FastTrack Ultra and Ultra 8R. I've been using them for quite a while...
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Sijel
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Re:Sonar 64, new DAW pc, simply incredible!
2010/08/25 16:28:44
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I'm a BIG fan of Cakewalk, but I run the Fast Track Ultra (FTU) on Win7-64bit with Sonar 64-bit all the way. It blazes and is rock-stable.
Jim is correct about roundtrip latency.
Besides, the UA-101 costs almost $150 extra. You get 4 great mic pres on the FTU - AND the instrument HiZ is 1MegaOhm impedance (which loads passive pickups very nicely without extra direct boxes and gadgets).
Microsoft Surface Book w/ Surface dock, dual 24-inch HD displays,
Sonar Platinum, THD 4, GuitarRig, Amplitube, (Kontakt4), Garritan PO, Trillian Bass 1.3, Roland Octa-Capture, Waves Gold & various Waves, PSP and T-Racks plugins.KRK Rokit6, Lefty Guitars & Bass, racks/pedals galore and many other fun things.
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Ace.trouble
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Re:Sonar 64, new DAW pc, simply incredible!
2010/08/25 17:27:16
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Sijel
I'm a BIG fan of Cakewalk, but I run the Fast Track Ultra (FTU) on Win7-64bit with Sonar 64-bit all the way. It blazes and is rock-stable.
Jim is correct about roundtrip latency.
Besides, the UA-101 costs almost $150 extra. You get 4 great mic pres on the FTU - AND the instrument HiZ is 1MegaOhm impedance (which loads passive pickups very nicely without extra direct boxes and gadgets).
Okay, thanks to your and Jim's recommendation I'm about to order the Fast Track Ultra. I assume it also supports low buffer sizes like 64 or 96 samples? Would it allow me to record with close-to-zero latency (playback, not RTL) on a project of let's say 10-12 tracks, loaded with plugins? Thanks Ace.
post edited by Ace.trouble - 2010/08/25 17:41:02
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:Sonar 64, new DAW pc, simply incredible!
2010/08/26 11:59:27
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Would it allow me to record with close-to-zero latency (playback, not RTL) on a project of let's say 10-12 tracks, loaded with plugins? Hi Ace, Switch to High Performance mode... (now you can select the 64-sample ASIO buffer size). As long as your machine can keep up with the load, you'll have glitch-free audio. One small quirk with the FastTrack Ultra/8R drivers: The next time you boot into Windows, the ASIO buffer size will be 128-samples (bumped up a notch). So you need to go into the MAudio control panel and set it back to 64-samples. IOW, You'll need to set the ASIO buffer size to 64-samples each time you boot into Windows. As long as you remain in Windows, the ASIO buffer size will remain unchanged. Small annoyance... but otherwise a great little unit.
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gustabo
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Re:Sonar 64, new DAW pc, simply incredible!
2010/08/27 13:43:01
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Just installed Win7 on a separate partition. I remember reading awhile back about something to do with rolling back firewire device drivers for Win7? Can someone enlighten me or point me in the right direction?
post edited by gustabo - 2010/08/27 13:44:16
Cakewalk by Bandlab - Win10 Pro x64 - StudioCat Platinum Studio DAW - 32 GB Ram - MOTU UltraLite-mk3
M-Audio Keystation 88ES - Akai MPD26 (hot-rodded) - Alesis DM10 - a few guitars, a few amps
Novation Launch Control - Korg nanoKONTROL2 - PreSonus FaderPort - DAW Remote HD on iPad
Adam A7X - Behritone C50A
PreSonus Monitor Station v2 (controlling the mons)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/sonarusergroup/
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:Sonar 64, new DAW pc, simply incredible!
2010/08/27 16:13:45
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I remember reading awhile back about something to do with rolling back firewire device drivers for Win7? Can someone enlighten me or point me in the right direction?
Hi Gus, Depends on the audio interface. ie: The RME and Steinberg Fireface units don't need the FW drivers in 'legacy' mode. If you need to put the FW controller drivers in legacy mode, you go into device manager (under 1394 Bus Host Controllers)... and update the driver (browsing to and selecting from an existing driver). You'll be presented with three choices... the middle of which ends in (legacy). Choose this driver and finish out the process. To return to the normal driver, right click on the device... choose uninstall... and then go to the Actions Menu and Scan For Hardware Changes. When the FW driver is reloaded, it'll be the default driver.
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gustabo
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Re:Sonar 64, new DAW pc, simply incredible!
2010/08/27 16:39:42
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Jim Roseberry
I remember reading awhile back about something to do with rolling back firewire device drivers for Win7? Can someone enlighten me or point me in the right direction? Hi Gus,
Depends on the audio interface.
Using a MOTU UltraLite mk3, do I need the FW controller drivers in legacy mode?
Cakewalk by Bandlab - Win10 Pro x64 - StudioCat Platinum Studio DAW - 32 GB Ram - MOTU UltraLite-mk3
M-Audio Keystation 88ES - Akai MPD26 (hot-rodded) - Alesis DM10 - a few guitars, a few amps
Novation Launch Control - Korg nanoKONTROL2 - PreSonus FaderPort - DAW Remote HD on iPad
Adam A7X - Behritone C50A
PreSonus Monitor Station v2 (controlling the mons)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/sonarusergroup/
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:Sonar 64, new DAW pc, simply incredible!
2010/08/27 16:46:01
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Using a MOTU UltraLite mk3, do I need the FW controller drivers in legacy mode? Yes... I run my 896HD with the FW controller in legacy mode
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gustabo
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Re:Sonar 64, new DAW pc, simply incredible!
2010/08/27 17:40:06
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Cakewalk by Bandlab - Win10 Pro x64 - StudioCat Platinum Studio DAW - 32 GB Ram - MOTU UltraLite-mk3
M-Audio Keystation 88ES - Akai MPD26 (hot-rodded) - Alesis DM10 - a few guitars, a few amps
Novation Launch Control - Korg nanoKONTROL2 - PreSonus FaderPort - DAW Remote HD on iPad
Adam A7X - Behritone C50A
PreSonus Monitor Station v2 (controlling the mons)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/sonarusergroup/
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rockoman
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Re:Sonar 64, new DAW pc, simply incredible!
2010/09/18 06:04:56
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How are you all not getting your CPU meters to barely move? I just built myself a mean i7 Win7 64bit system myself. However, I loaded an old project (about 15 tracks audio) and have just one soft synth open (Kontakt 4) triggering Steven Slate samples on a multi drum track. No plug-ins loaded or anything and my CPU is reading 14-19%!!! I'm a little disappointed so far with those readings, especially when others say they are really pushing their projects. Is there something I need to change in the settings? Bios???? You can see my specs in my sig.
Thanks
It's not what we're doing, it's how you do it :)
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Sijel
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Re:Sonar 64, new DAW pc, simply incredible!
2010/09/18 11:36:59
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Dunno. You left off some of most important information: what audio interface and settings on that interface? what graphics card(s) are in the PC? BTW - I have some projects that start out with ~10-15% CPU from everything I load in Normal.tpl (SD3,DimPro, Trillian, Aria for GPO, and a slew of VX,PX,Glue buss compressors, PSP warmers, etc). But I find that I can keep adding audio and midi tracks with almost no change in the Sonar meter. The most important things. in the end is: is the GUI "peppy" as you edit and process, and are you not hearing pops/clicks? Note: some plugs process all the time and this can add to the CPU from the start. A few plugs allow you to turn off this continual processing at the expense of a slight delay when starting Playback again. I haven't bothered to turn off this processing since the Sonar meter has never gone above 30% and I edit like a demon without glitches. So, AFAIC, it ain't broken, so I'm not gonna bothering trying to fix it . BTW - wish you luck with your custom build. After decades of workstation engineering, I stopped doing that for my Sonar 8.x machine. The Alienware cost ~$200 more than a home build but it's perfectly engineered for high performance. (There's a lot of component testing/matching you get behind the scenes from Dell/Alien). I'm glad I'm spending my time on music authoring instead of systems optimization - for the same cost as a single plugin, I've gotten incredible productivity back. I'll probably talk with Jim for my Sonar 10 machine. 
post edited by Sijel - 2010/09/18 11:43:31
Microsoft Surface Book w/ Surface dock, dual 24-inch HD displays,
Sonar Platinum, THD 4, GuitarRig, Amplitube, (Kontakt4), Garritan PO, Trillian Bass 1.3, Roland Octa-Capture, Waves Gold & various Waves, PSP and T-Racks plugins.KRK Rokit6, Lefty Guitars & Bass, racks/pedals galore and many other fun things.
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Shane_B.
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Re:Sonar 64, new DAW pc, simply incredible!
2010/09/18 14:46:35
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rockoman
How are you all not getting your CPU meters to barely move? I just built myself a mean i7 Win7 64bit system myself. However, I loaded an old project (about 15 tracks audio) and have just one soft synth open (Kontakt 4) triggering Steven Slate samples on a multi drum track. No plug-ins loaded or anything and my CPU is reading 14-19%!!! I'm a little disappointed so far with those readings, especially when others say they are really pushing their projects. Is there something I need to change in the settings? Bios???? You can see my specs in my sig.
Thanks
Hi rockoman, I had the same problem you are having and it ended up being my RAM. I was using the XMS3 RAM at the time. After 4 defective sticks of it, I went with Kingston because it was on the list of tested RAM that Gigabyte provides for their motherboards. I have the Gigabyte UD2 motherboard and had issues when it was running the XMS3 ram even though there is a version of it on the tested list. BTW the XMS3 RAM is only 1333 RAM, but 'tested' to run stable when overclocked, basically they stuck a huge heat sink on it to be able to handle the heat from overclocking. I never OC and didn't realize that the advertised speed on the XMS3 was the OC'd speed until long after I had it installed. I looked on Gigabytes website and got a list of all the RAM they tested and got the fastest speed I could run without overclocking (1333). I installed it, went in to bios and told it to load optimized settings, and my CPU usage in Sonar dropped significantly. Last project I did had 9 tracks, 2 synths, 4 reverbs, Sonars Tube Leveler on a buss with 3 tracks routed to it, Alloy on every track, and I slapped Ozone on the master buss to see if it would handle it ... CPU usage was 19% with Sonar's Tube Leveler set for oversampling and I had the 64 bit engine turned on. It dropped to 12 ~ 13% when I disabled Ozone, and down to about 10% when I turned off oversampling on the tube leveler. Gigabyte had some memory problems on the UD2 mobo that they fixed with BIOS updates. I think it's up to F11 now. You may want to check on that too. There are some updates to Win 7 that say they improve performance but I didn't notice anything in Sonar's CPU usage when I installed the updates. Never hurts to try though. Hope this helps. Shane
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rockoman
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Re:Sonar 64, new DAW pc, simply incredible!
2010/09/19 02:42:30
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Shane_B
Hi rockoman,
I had the same problem you are having and it ended up being my RAM. I was using the XMS3 RAM at the time. After 4 defective sticks of it, I went with Kingston because it was on the list of tested RAM that Gigabyte provides for their motherboards. I have the Gigabyte UD2 motherboard and had issues when it was running the XMS3 ram even though there is a version of it on the tested list. BTW the XMS3 RAM is only 1333 RAM, but 'tested' to run stable when overclocked, basically they stuck a huge heat sink on it to be able to handle the heat from overclocking. I never OC and didn't realize that the advertised speed on the XMS3 was the OC'd speed until long after I had it installed.
I looked on Gigabytes website and got a list of all the RAM they tested and got the fastest speed I could run without overclocking (1333). I installed it, went in to bios and told it to load optimized settings, and my CPU usage in Sonar dropped significantly. Last project I did had 9 tracks, 2 synths, 4 reverbs, Sonars Tube Leveler on a buss with 3 tracks routed to it, Alloy on every track, and I slapped Ozone on the master buss to see if it would handle it ... CPU usage was 19% with Sonar's Tube Leveler set for oversampling and I had the 64 bit engine turned on. It dropped to 12 ~ 13% when I disabled Ozone, and down to about 10% when I turned off oversampling on the tube leveler.
Gigabyte had some memory problems on the UD2 mobo that they fixed with BIOS updates. I think it's up to F11 now. You may want to check on that too. There are some updates to Win 7 that say they improve performance but I didn't notice anything in Sonar's CPU usage when I installed the updates. Never hurts to try though.
Hope this helps.
Shane
Awesome reply, thank you. Man, I hope it's not my Ram. When you say yours was defective, does that mean it wasn't showing up in BIOS or in system specs? I ask because all 12gig of mine are. I am running it at 1600MHZ by setting the multiplier in BIOS. I'll try 1333 and see if that improves anything. BTW, Will a supplier (NewEgg) take back defective RAM if so?
Sijel
Dunno.
You left off some of most important information:
what audio interface and settings on that interface?
what graphics card(s) are in the PC?
Thanks for the reply! I'm using a Focusrite Liquid Saffire 56 audio interface at 48k, 24bit, with the lowest buffer settings possible (2 something). I do not have any latency or pops/click trouble at all. I do, however , notice my GUI not being "peppy"; Sonar's "working/waiting/in process" icon comes up more than I think it should :( I'm using a GIGABYTE video card with 512MB DDR2 onboard Memory, 64bit. However, I don't have the video drivers currently installed (about to do it now). I did a TON of research on my hardware and I am fairly certain that there isn't any computability issues. I wish I could have gone with an all-in-one solution for a DAW build but I needed to save some bucks :)
It's not what we're doing, it's how you do it :)
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:Sonar 64, new DAW pc, simply incredible!
2010/09/19 15:00:29
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However, I don't have the video drivers currently installed At least part of the problem is that (without the video drivers loaded) graphic redraws are going to be s-l-o-w...
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rockoman
Max Output Level: -84 dBFS
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Re:Sonar 64, new DAW pc, simply incredible!
2010/09/19 15:27:13
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Yeah Jim, the vid drivers def. helped with the graphic redraws
It's not what we're doing, it's how you do it :)
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ScratchFBST
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Re:Sonar 64, new DAW pc, simply incredible!
2010/09/20 08:12:00
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Has anyone had any experience with Win XP 64? I've heard there were user profile issues with Win 7 64. And XP doesn't have that problem. Any comments?
Thanks.
Scratch
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John
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Re:Sonar 64, new DAW pc, simply incredible!
2010/09/20 11:14:08
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XP 64 is not supported by CW for Sonar. That is not to say it wont work but that CW has not tested it. I would avoid it because it is a very poorly supported OS. As to profiles in Vista/Windows 7 you have UAC which is User Account Control. This controls what privileges a program can have. With it on many programs are restricted from opening and writing to disk. To get by this all one needs to do is give the program the ability to do this. Its done by setting its properties to "run as administrator" or simply right click on its shortcut and set RAA. This is a security measure that can be globally turn off if you want. Sonar runs fine with UAC on as long as you do the above.
post edited by John - 2010/09/20 11:33:58
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