Sonar 7/8 crash with midi

Hi everyone,

I got a weird problem here that I really don't know how to trouble shoot to be honest. So I'm calling on you guys for some assistance. :) Ok, here's the deal. Whenever I record my Roland V Drums, I use Tranzport to control Sonar because my kit is in another room. What happens is, I start to record and when I screw up, I undo, rewind and just track again.

After I undo maybe 10 times or so, while recording Sonar 7 and 8 will give me the error message saying "Sonar must close, do you want to make a back up of this project?" This message pops up right in the middle of recording and it will actually allow me to finish, press stop on either the Tranzport controller or my JL Cooper mini desk (I can't use Sonar stop button when this happens, I have to use a controller) and I can save the project. The thing that sucks is, I can't really figure out where to start to try and get to the bottom of this because Tranzport and the Roland kit are the only things that are used at the same time, and they are in the other room. Of course I can bring Tranzport in to my control room and try messing with it to control my projects to see if that would rule out Tranz being the culprit. I don't know why I didn't think of that actually...but whatever it is, it's not something that happens on a button press. It's something that happens while the project is running and recording and it happens at random.

I have done extensive triggering of the Roland kit using my keyboard from the control room and have never had an issue. I have also used Tranzport a few times in my control room to test it out and I have never had a crash. But I haven't used it in the control room where I do several undo's and use it in my control room recording if you know what I mean. I bought it only to run Sonar from my drum room so that's the only time it gets used. I've never had any issues with is and all the functions work perfectly. It's never made Sonar crash. So it's either gotta be:

1. Something with the drums triggering off the pads?

2. Tranzport and V drums being used at the same time?

3. Maybe something isn't quite set up right with my MOTU midi Express XT? I just set it up until it worked. I have no clue if it's even configured right. But all 6 midi hardware units that are connected to it are working perfectly with Sonar.

4. Tranzport is having an issue with Sonar somewhere? If this is the case, it's not something that I press and I crash. It's something that happens over time and this only happens when I get behind the kit and record while using Tranzport.

Do you have any suggestions on what I can try to remedy this? It's really starting to get annoying...and when it crashes, it doesn't give me any info as to why it crashed. It just saves, and shuts down. The save that is saves is perfect, but when it crashes, it kills my audio driver and I have to reboot at all times.

I spoke with Frontier Design and they don't have a clue as to why this could be happening. I have the latest drivers for Tranzport and it links up to Sonar perfectly and shows all the right information. One of the guys from FD told me to kill the Tranzport icon that runs in my systray. I tried that and everything still worked, but the crash still came. This happens in Sonar 7 and 8 religiously after about 10 undo's.

I tried a project in Sonar 6 last night using the same rig. All my settings in 6 are the same as 7 and 8 and I worked for over 3 hours without a crash. So whatever this is, it seems to be a combination of the Roland kit, my motu, Tranzport and Sonar 7 and 8. Any ideas? Thanks in advance.

Hey Jonbouy,

Thanks for the response. I'm just trying to think how I can do this....I'll probably have to go back to my old methods in order to test and see if it is Tranzport causing the issue. In the old days, I had to set a long count in so I could run out of my control room and into my drum room. I'd have to keep the door open so I could hear the clicks going on and walk silently as to not miss a click. LOL!!! From there, each time I'd make a mistake, I'd have to get up, run back into the control room, undo and start the count-in all over again. Man, I soo hated doing that! LMAO! But I got so used to it, it was what it was. Tranzport stopped all that of course....but if it IS the culprit, the only other way to find out for sure would be to just try to implement it into my control room recording work-flow. But let's say I found out it wasn't Tranzport at all....I'm wondering how I could troubleshoot what may be causing the V Drums to be a problem. I did have a few issues with my MOTU where I was picking up that robot effect. I made a few changes to the midi config there and then disabled midi echo in global. But I never had to do that before until Sonar 7 and 8. My local in the Roland brain is set to off. Something keeps on making me think this whole thing is in my MOTU configuration for some reason. Yet, I'm really not experiencing any problems there with anything else. Man I hate this troubleshooting stuff. LOL!! If the motu was not configured right, it just wouldn't work at all right? Could there be something going on there? Like I said in my first post, I don't even know for sure that it's configured properly, but everything works on it and I have 6 midi pieces running through it with no problems. Patches change, midi ins and outs are working...I would think if it was hooked up wrong, I'd not get anything at all, right? But I really don't know as I'm not too schooled at deep midi. Thanks for the response....maybe someone that has Tranzport or the motu piece may chime in. :)

Hi dl,

Thanks for the response. Yeah that's what I was told to do...but I didn't remove it from msconfig. I just did ctrl/alt/del and removed it that way just to test if it would crash or not and of course this removed it from systray. It still crashed on me though. Wouldn't disabling it this way be enough to tell if that was the issue, or should I remove it using msconfig? Seems to be the same thing the way I did it as it wasn't running when it crashed. Or maybe it does something when it boots and even though I shut it down, it dumped something beforehand? I'll try it your way and see if it makes a difference. I did try removing, I just didn't do it through msconfig. Gonna try that now. :)

Keith,

Thanks so much. Unfortunately, windows error reporting is turned off on my system. But I found this in the event viewer. Is this what you're looking for?

Event Type: Error
Event Source: Application Error
Event Category: None
Event ID: 1000
Date: 10/14/2008
Time: 7:41:50 PM
User: N/A
Computer: CSRACKDC
Description:
Faulting application sonarpdr.exe, version 17.0.0.221, faulting module sonarpdr.exe, version 17.0.0.221, fault address 0x0035495d.

For more information, see Help and Support Center at http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
Data:
0000: 41 70 70 6c 69 63 61 74 Applicat
0008: 69 6f 6e 20 46 61 69 6c ion Fail
0010: 75 72 65 20 20 73 6f 6e ure son
0018: 61 72 70 64 72 2e 65 78 arpdr.ex
0020: 65 20 31 37 2e 30 2e 30 e 17.0.0
0028: 2e 32 32 31 20 69 6e 20 .221 in
0030: 73 6f 6e 61 72 70 64 72 sonarpdr
0038: 2e 65 78 65 20 31 37 2e .exe 17.
0040: 30 2e 30 2e 32 32 31 20 0.0.221
0048: 61 74 20 6f 66 66 73 65 at offse
0050: 74 20 30 30 33 35 34 39 t 003549
0058: 35 64 0d 0a 5d..

That's all I see. That one and then this one for what I believe to be the same crash in S7.

Event Type: Error
Event Source: Application Error
Event Category: None
Event ID: 1000
Date: 10/14/2008
Time: 6:35:06 AM
User: N/A
Computer: CSRACKDC
Description:
Faulting application sonarpdr.exe, version 16.0.2.243, faulting module sonarpdr.exe, version 16.0.2.243, fault address 0x0072594b.

For more information, see Help and Support Center at http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
Data:
0000: 41 70 70 6c 69 63 61 74 Applicat
0008: 69 6f 6e 20 46 61 69 6c ion Fail
0010: 75 72 65 20 20 73 6f 6e ure son
0018: 61 72 70 64 72 2e 65 78 arpdr.ex
0020: 65 20 31 36 2e 30 2e 32 e 16.0.2
0028: 2e 32 34 33 20 69 6e 20 .243 in
0030: 73 6f 6e 61 72 70 64 72 sonarpdr
0038: 2e 65 78 65 20 31 36 2e .exe 16.
0040: 30 2e 32 2e 32 34 33 20 0.2.243
0048: 61 74 20 6f 66 66 73 65 at offse
0050: 74 20 30 30 37 32 35 39 t 007259
0058: 34 62 0d 0a 4b..

If this is what you're looking for, let me know and I'll do what you need me to do with the error report. Thanks!

Hi Keith,

Ok, I'll just turn on error reporting and try to purposely make it crash and see what I can come up with. Willy just got in touch with me and wants me to try a few things as well. He seems to think it may be too much CC data...so I'm gonna check on that also. I'll get back to you on this as soon as I have some info for you. Thanks so much again for keeping in touch.

One other thing while I have you here Keith if I may? I'm sorry to jump topics here, but I have been meaning to ask this since I got Sonar 8. I have this new plug that has appeared since S8. It's called TPS module. It appears in soft synths. Everytime I try to even see what it looks like, I get a crash in Sonar and a Dr Watson crash as well immediately following it. I thought this plug may be some version of True Piano, but I actually have one that says True Piano. Do you know what this thing is? I've never even been able to see it. I checked to see if maybe it was some sort of stand alone in my Sonar menu in Programs, but nothing appears there. One of the things I have always enjoyed doing is opening up all the new softsynths for the first time (not all at once lol) when I get a new Sonar version....and this is the only thing that doesn't seem to open.

Again, sorry to jump topics....I know the other thing is way more important. I was just curious to know if you knew anything about this plug and why it may not want to open. If my error reporting is off, doesn't this keep ole Dr Watson off as well? I have no idea why he crashes immediately after. When I get that particular crash, there is no chance to save. I can see all the info on the dump on that one right on my screen. But the other crash with the midi, it just gives me a chance to save and then closes everything down. Just wanted to run it by you...thanks again. I'll work on the first problem. :)

Just happened again- I sent the error report in.

ORIGINAL: Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
I'll paste the minidump instructions here so you can setup your system to capture them.

This is info should be put into a sticky if it isn't already (looking right now).

Or at least on the SONAR wiki

Hey Danny,

As Keith explained, the plugin you're seeing is from another application. Usually when you open them, it just shows a generic window with the name of the plugin and without any buttons or settings that you can tweak. I ususally get weird plugins from Nero and other media apps so I use Keith's method to remove them from my plugin list. But it's nothing to worry about.

I wish I could help you out with the other issue but I'm no MIDI expert either, though I'm sure it will be sorted out soon now that Cakewalk is helping you.


Take care my friend!

I don't see any dump files or specific bug report that were submitted for this (nothing on the 17'th or earlier). Please send us a minidump so we can see what is crashing. The only way we can investigate something like this is with a minidump.

OK. I can re-create the crash easily just by playing V-Drums for 3 minutes or so with Sonar recording.

I have followed the instructions and can see the dump file appear in the temp folder identified by the error message, as set out above. But if I try and copy the dump file away it says "can't do this as it's in use by another program". Once I close the error reporting the dump file and the associated text file vanishes. This happens whether or not I click the "Send Error Report" or not - I've tried both ways.

How can I hang on to the dump file for you?

The associated text file is a load of XML. I can get at this by opening and copying from the file during the process. Is this any help?

I can also see the error messages which I presume are the dump file contents but it won't let me copy/paste these! I suppose I could take loads of screen shots and cobble this together via image files??

Thanks
Toby

I was having midi issues with Rapture and Dimension Pro once I upgraded to Sonar 8 Producer Edition
it would freeze saying there was something missing from the plug in want me to save my work and cause Sonar.exe to crash
after I downloaded and installed the updates for Dimension Pro and Rapture - no more crashes
so maybe something needs updated
just my 2 cents - hope that helps

Toby,

Here's how to capture the minidump:

Minidump creation

XP instructions for getting Minidumps:
-----------------------------------------------
One place to look that sometimes refers to minidumps and if they were saved...
Control Panel -> Administrative Tools -> Event Viewer. Click on the Application item to view entries, looking for Application Error entries. Sometimes they mention a dump file being created.

If you aren't able to copy the .mdmp or find it in the log above, you can configure Dr. Watson to save minidumps.

To do that, go to Start -> Run, type DrWtsn32 -i
You should see a message appear that Dr. Watson has been installed as the default application debugger. Click OK to dismiss that dlg.

Now, do Start -> Run again and this time just type DrWtsn32. This is to confirm some settings.
You will note a Crash Dump path. This is where a .dmp file will be saved. Then, make sure that Crash Dump Type is set to Mini. Full will wind up making a huge multigigabyte file that won't be very easy to upload. Under Options, please insure that Create Crash Dump File is checked. Click OK to update the settings.

Vista instructions:
--------------------
While the crash is onscreen, you can right click on the SONARPDR/SONARSTD process in Task Manager, Processes tab, and choose Create Dump File.

If that doesn't work, you can configure a SP1 system to create dumps on crashes, thanks to Mark at SysInternals for this:
"take advantage of Vista SP1’s “local dumps” functionality so that I'll automatically get a crash dump to investigate for any application crash I experience. If you create a key named HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Windows Error Reporting\LocalDumps, WerFault will always save a dump. Crashes go by default into %LOCALAPPDATA%\Crashdumps, but you can override that with a Registry value and also specify a limit on the number of crashes WerFault will keep. "

Finally, if not on SP1 (and you should be), you can install WinDbg to catch the crash and use that to save a dump file.
Google for Debugging Tools for Windows. Install it, then run it with a cmd line of a capital I. windbg- I. You should see a dialog that WinDbg was successfully installed as the default postmortem debugger. Now when a crash occurs, type
.dump c:\somepath\somecrash.dmp

General
---------
Once that's done, please submit a problem report and attach the dump file.

http://www.cakewalk.com/Support/ProblemReporter/

Totally not answering your question, though I do use Tranzport quite a bit when I mess with my modular or when I (gasp) sing.

But to totally not answer your question but to get you to join the league of zen drummers, I would suggest you look at

>>>>>>>>>LOOK AT THIS DANNY LOOK LOOK LOOK<<<<<<<<<
I have one of the "Laptop" models (in a nice burly light blue that shows the grain of the wood) mounted on a standard snare stand and it sits right under my Synthi and is ready to use constantly.

I love this thing. It captures the essence of drumming with your fingertips, yet has excellent dynamics. It really works nicely with Battery 3 in that a simple double click lets you change the pad assignments from within B3.

But no I never have SOnar has to close issues with my Tranzport. I have had people beg me to close it, but never mandatory.

ORIGINAL: Danny Danzi

Hi everyone,

I got a weird problem here that I really don't know how to trouble shoot to be honest. So I'm calling on you guys for some assistance. :) Ok, here's the deal. Whenever I record my Roland V Drums, I use Tranzport to control Sonar because my kit is in another room. What happens is, I start to record and when I screw up, I undo, rewind and just track again.

After I undo maybe 10 times or so, while recording Sonar 7 and 8 will give me the error message saying "Sonar must close, do you want to make a back up of this project?" This message pops up right in the middle of recording and it will actually allow me to finish, press stop on either the Tranzport controller or my JL Cooper mini desk (I can't use Sonar stop button when this happens, I have to use a controller) and I can save the project. The thing that sucks is, I can't really figure out where to start to try and get to the bottom of this because Tranzport and the Roland kit are the only things that are used at the same time, and they are in the other room. Of course I can bring Tranzport in to my control room and try messing with it to control my projects to see if that would rule out Tranz being the culprit. I don't know why I didn't think of that actually...but whatever it is, it's not something that happens on a button press. It's something that happens while the project is running and recording and it happens at random.

I have done extensive triggering of the Roland kit using my keyboard from the control room and have never had an issue. I have also used Tranzport a few times in my control room to test it out and I have never had a crash. But I haven't used it in the control room where I do several undo's and use it in my control room recording if you know what I mean. I bought it only to run Sonar from my drum room so that's the only time it gets used. I've never had any issues with is and all the functions work perfectly. It's never made Sonar crash. So it's either gotta be:

1. Something with the drums triggering off the pads?

2. Tranzport and V drums being used at the same time?

3. Maybe something isn't quite set up right with my MOTU midi Express XT? I just set it up until it worked. I have no clue if it's even configured right. But all 6 midi hardware units that are connected to it are working perfectly with Sonar.

4. Tranzport is having an issue with Sonar somewhere? If this is the case, it's not something that I press and I crash. It's something that happens over time and this only happens when I get behind the kit and record while using Tranzport.

Do you have any suggestions on what I can try to remedy this? It's really starting to get annoying...and when it crashes, it doesn't give me any info as to why it crashed. It just saves, and shuts down. The save that is saves is perfect, but when it crashes, it kills my audio driver and I have to reboot at all times.

I spoke with Frontier Design and they don't have a clue as to why this could be happening. I have the latest drivers for Tranzport and it links up to Sonar perfectly and shows all the right information. One of the guys from FD told me to kill the Tranzport icon that runs in my systray. I tried that and everything still worked, but the crash still came. This happens in Sonar 7 and 8 religiously after about 10 undo's.

I tried a project in Sonar 6 last night using the same rig. All my settings in 6 are the same as 7 and 8 and I worked for over 3 hours without a crash. So whatever this is, it seems to be a combination of the Roland kit, my motu, Tranzport and Sonar 7 and 8. Any ideas? Thanks in advance.

Hahah thanks for the link, space. I've known about that little gem for a bit...looks pretty cool but I don't think I could stop playing my v drums and play on that. It may be an awesome weapon to add the the arsenal at some point though. Thanks again. ;)

Awesome news Danny! I hope they track this down and fix it as soon as possible. I know it's gotta be a pain to not be able to record your drums parts without the fear of your DAW crashing but, then again we're talking about Cakewalk so they'll do their best to fix this ASAP. Have a great day!

Take care my friend.