Helpful ReplySonar Optimize Win 10 : MMCSS

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taccess
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2017/06/23 03:06:23 (permalink)

Sonar Optimize Win 10 : MMCSS

https://www.reddit.com/r/killerinstinct/comments/4fcdhy/an_excellent_guide_to_optimizing_your_windows_10/
 
Found this thread , its short but it looks like it packs a HUGE surprise and not something i have come across in DAW optimization ,well this particular section of REGEDIT , and it seems like it has some really good information that instead of gaming could be used for Audio/DAW. So i have swapped out Gaming For DAW below to make it easier to digest .
 
I am wondering if anyone can make suggestions if it could be made to make Win 10 better for Sonar.
 
I am thinking HELL YES :
 
1) Windows implements a network throttling mechanism, the idea behind such throttling is that processing of network packets can be a resource-intensive task. It is beneficial to turn off such throttling for achieving maximum throughput. To implement this tweak, run regedit and modify the registry key:
 
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Multimedia\SystemProfile. Under SystemProfile, create a DWORD value and name it to “NetworkThrottlingIndex” then set its Hexadecimal value to ffffffff for gaming and max throughput: ffffffff completely disables throttling
 
2) DAWs that uses “Multimedia Class Scheduler” service (MMCSS) an only utilize up to 80% of the CPU. The “Multimedia Class Scheduler” service (MMCSS) ensures prioritized access to CPU resources, without denying CPU resources to lower-priority background applications. To implement this tweak, run regedit and modify the registry key:
 
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Multimedia\SystemProfile. From there, create a new DWORD and name it to “SystemResponsiveness” set its hexadecimal value to 00000000 ( for pure  > DAW )
 
2a) In the same Registry hive as the above tweak, you can also change the priority of Games. 
To implement this tweak: 
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Multimedia\SystemProfile\Tasks\Games and change the following registry values:
“GPU Priority” change its values to 8 for gaming.
“Priority” set to 6 for gaming.

 
( I am thinking For DAWs :  https://msdn.microsoft.co...ms684247(v=vs.85).aspx
  • Audio : ( affinity left alone ) (background only = false )(GPU Priority=8 minimum percentage)( Priority =8 high)( scheduling category = High  )(scheduling category =High )( SFIO =High )
  • Capture : ?
  • Distribution : ?
  • Games : ?
  • Playback :( affinity left alone ) (background only = false )(GPU Priority=8 minimum percentage)( Priority =8 high)( scheduling category = High  )(scheduling category =High )( SFIO =High )
  • Pro Audio :( affinity left alone ) (background only = false )(GPU Priority=8 minimum percentage)( Priority =8 high)( scheduling category = High  )(scheduling category =High )( SFIO =High )
    Window Manager : ?
more info:
http://www.installsetupco...readsprocessapis7.html
http://www.installsetupconfig.com/win32programming/windowsthreadsprocessapis7_1.html
http://www.installsetupconfig.com/win32programming/windowsthreadsprocessapis7_2.html
http://www.installsetupconfig.com/win32programming/windowsthreadsprocessapis7_3.html
http://www.installsetupco...adsprocessapis7_4.html
http://www.installsetupconfig.com/win32programming/windowsthreadsprocessapis7_5.html
http://www.installsetupconfig.com/win32programming/windowsthreadsprocessapis7_6.html
http://www.installsetupconfig.com/win32programming/windowsthreadsprocessapis7_7.html
http://www.installsetupconfig.com/win32programming/windowsthreadsprocessapis7_8.html
http://www.installsetupconfig.com/win32programming/windowsthreadsprocessapis7_9.html
 
3) DAW applications use the "Multimedia Class Scheduler" service (MMCSS) to ensure prioritized access to CPU resources, without denying CPU resources to lower-priority background applications. However, this also reserves 20% of CPU by default for background processes, your multimedia streaming and some games can only utilize up to 80% of the CPU. This setting, in combination with the above "NetworkThrottlingIndex" can help some games and video streaming.
We recommend reducing the reserved CPU for background processes from the default of 20% .
To implement this tweak, run regedit and modify the registry key:
 
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Multimedia\SystemProfile SystemResponsiveness=10 (DWORD, default is 20 denoting 20% of CPU reserved, recommended: decimal 10, or 0 for pure DAW Performance)
 
I have not changed anything yet because if i do it will be to better Win 10 for Sonar, so i want to hear what other people using platinum think ?
Which of these settings do u believe will be best for Platinum ?

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#1
taccess
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Re: Sonar Optimize Win 10 : MMCSS 2017/06/23 03:31:49 (permalink)
Just Going through AUD.ini file and found :
 
Cakewalk uses :PRO AUDIO / so adjusting these setting i believe would benefit Splat, i also believe that the current default settings for Pro Audio should be tweaked ?
 
MMCSSTaskKey=<task name>Name Pro Audio
By default, SONAR uses the MMCSS task profile named Pro Audio. If desired, you can instruct SONAR to use a custom MMCSS task profile.
 
Does anyone agree that if sonar uses pro audio that the default setting should changed to :
Pro Audio :
( affinity left alone )
( Background only = false )  Currently True , this looks incorrect to me because Pro Audio should be Foreground Focused !
( GPU Priority=8 ) Currently 8 which is low and although this could go to 1 really low i am not sure if this is a good idea
( Priority= 8 high ) Currently 1 LOW , this looks incorrect to me
( scheduling category = High ) Currently High , so it should be
( SFIO = High )Currently Normal , This also looks incorrect to me
 
??

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werewindle
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Re: Sonar Optimize Win 10 : MMCSS 2017/06/23 07:16:02 (permalink)
I also change the core management profile from balanced to highest performance and high I/O priority, didn't worry about RAM priority as I have 64GB.
Also removed affinity for cpu 18 as for some reason windows seems to like loading initially on last cpu - 1 for some reason.
Use Process Lasso Pro to do all the above which I found mentioned in another thread. Still doing further tweaking and the above looks like usefully additions.

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Timur Born
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Re: Sonar Optimize Win 10 : MMCSS 2017/06/27 08:42:05 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby taccess 2017/06/27 09:49:32
taccess3) DAW applications use the "Multimedia Class Scheduler" service (MMCSS) to ensure prioritized access to CPU resources, without denying CPU resources to lower-priority background applications. However, this also reserves 20% of CPU by default for background processes, your multimedia streaming and some games can only utilize up to 80% of the CPU.
...
We recommend reducing the reserved CPU for background processes from the default of 20% .
...
SystemResponsiveness=10 (DWORD, default is 20 denoting 20% of CPU reserved, recommended: decimal 10, or 0 for pure DAW Performance)

There is some misconception here!
 
- First of all, the minimum value is 10%, there is no 0%!
 
"This key contains a REG_DWORD value named SystemResponsiveness that determines the percentage of CPU resources that should be guaranteed to low-priority tasks. For example, if this value is 20, then 20% of CPU resources are reserved for low-priority tasks. Note that values that are not evenly divisible by 10 are rounded up to the nearest multiple of 10. A value of 0 is also treated as 10."
 
- Last time I dealt with Sonar it set this to 10% on its own. This may or may not have changed meanwhile.
 
- And the most important part: This is *not* a permanent reservation, and thus not a permanent throttling! If no background processes need extra CPU time then your audio process get close to 100% CPU time. The 10-20% are only reserved for when your audio process hogs the CPU while another process needs the CPU at the same time. And even then these background processes only get as much CPU time as needed and only up to 10-20%, if it needs 1% it only get 1% and Sonar can keep using 99%.
 
This is a compromise meant to keep the audio process from stalling the whole system. The main drawback of this compromise is that even a priority 1 (lowest possible) process can use CPU time while your priority 26 (realtime) audio process is active. You can test this by running the Prime95 stress test (priority 1) in the background or doing some Windows explorer/start menu stuff while Sonar is heavily loaded over 80-90%.
 
If you don't want to use this compromise then you need to give Sonar "Realtime" priority (31!) via Task-Manager or Process Lasso.
 
Alternatively you can disable MMCSS if you have background processes with somewhat constant load interfering with Sonar. The main reason for MMCSS to be implemented is that the Windows "Desktop Windows Manager" DWM makes use of the same priority 15 (highest non realtime) that audio processes use without MMCSS. That was a problem with old hardware of Vista days, but nowadays DWM usually makes only for a tiny amount of CPU load (currently 0.12% on my PC). Of course there could be other process making trouble, so you need to check your specific system.
post edited by Timur Born - 2017/06/27 09:16:58
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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Sonar Optimize Win 10 : MMCSS 2017/06/27 15:59:13 (permalink)
So are you saying these days MMCSS does not make difference? This was my impression when fiddling with it ...

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Timur Born
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Re: Sonar Optimize Win 10 : MMCSS 2017/06/27 16:24:29 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Rob[at]Sound-Rehab 2017/06/28 05:51:03
It still enables DAW software to use "realtime" priorities without the danger of stalling the whole system. And the "distance" between other processes' priorities and DAW priorities is "longer" that way, aka pushing DAW processes more in comparison.
 
If you have control over what's running on your computer then it's not unlikely that you don't see much/if any of a difference. It's a compromise for solving a problem, no problem = no solution needed.
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Re: Sonar Optimize Win 10 : MMCSS 2017/06/27 16:32:05 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby taccess 2017/06/28 02:10:47
Two points to keep in mind. First, MMCSS was invented mainly for the purpose of avoiding audio dropouts, and secondarily to prevent system hangs due to CPU hogs (e.g. the audio driver!). Second, SONAR manages MMCSS itself, and it knows what it needs. Disabling MMCSS might help some applications, but would take away the ability of MMCSS-aware applications to manage their own thread priorities. Like SONAR.
 
Every DAW manages thread priorities differently, so beware of generic advice that might have been formulated by, say, an Ableton Live user. That observer's experiences might well differ from your own.
 
Some people complain that SONAR is one of the few Windows-only DAWs and (inexplicably) pine for a Mac port -- I feel exactly the opposite: SONAR's tight integration into and exclusive focus on Windows is a good thing!
 
P.S. I was typing my reply at the same time as Timur Born, and might not have replied had I known he was about to weigh in. Listen to this guy, he is an expert.


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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Timur Born
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Re: Sonar Optimize Win 10 : MMCSS 2017/06/27 16:48:48 (permalink)
My opinion is that DAWs should handle their priorities, including MMCSS priorities of their audio driver thread. Unfortunately Steinberg thinks differently and did not allow me to persuade them otherwise. According to the current ASIO standard every audio driver should use MMCSS permanently for ASIO. In practice this is not the case, especially for older hardware.
 
Some software even gets in trouble when the audio driver pushes its own thread to MMCSS while the DAW threads run at lower priorities. Two examples are Reaper before it introduced MMCSS on its own and Live before it included a (non optional) workaround that forces the driver threads back down to priority 15 (non MMCSS). I know of at least one intermediate Live version where this ceased to work, but was fixed again later.
 
It's still a mess, which is why RME's driver allows to switch driver based MMCSS on/off. Since Sonar handles MMCSS by itself you should turn the RME driver MMCSS option *off*, for Cubase should turn it on, other software varies.
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Re: Sonar Optimize Win 10 : MMCSS 2017/06/27 17:09:49 (permalink)
I don't fully comprehend this, I use an RME UCX which should... NOT use MMCSS because Sonar handles it? And Ableton has a "workaround"? So do I turn it off or on when I use Ableton?
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Timur Born
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Re: Sonar Optimize Win 10 : MMCSS 2017/06/27 17:37:53 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby taccess 2017/06/28 02:10:47
Turn off RME MMCSS for Sonar, Sonar will activate it own its own.
Turn off RME MMCSS for Live, Live would deactivate it anyway (unless it's bugged again).
Turn on RME MMCSS for Cubase, Steinberg expect this to be handled by the driver instead of the DAW (and wants all DAWs and drivers to work that way).
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Re: Sonar Optimize Win 10 : MMCSS 2017/06/27 17:47:04 (permalink)
Thanks! I mainly use Live and Sonar, I doubt Sibelius or Maschine care for my basic use of those.
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Re: Sonar Optimize Win 10 : MMCSS 2017/06/27 18:45:35 (permalink)
bitflipper
Two points to keep in mind. First, MMCSS was invented mainly for the purpose of avoiding audio dropouts, and secondarily to prevent system hangs due to CPU hogs (e.g. the audio driver!). Second, SONAR manages MMCSS itself, and it knows what it needs. Disabling MMCSS might help some applications, but would take away the ability of MMCSS-aware applications to manage their own thread priorities. Like SONAR.
 
Every DAW manages thread priorities differently, so beware of generic advice that might have been formulated by, say, an Ableton Live user. That observer's experiences might well differ from your own.
 
Some people complain that SONAR is one of the few Windows-only DAWs and (inexplicably) pine for a Mac port -- I feel exactly the opposite: SONAR's tight integration into and exclusive focus on Windows is a good thing!
 
P.S. I was typing my reply at the same time as Timur Born, and might not have replied had I known he was about to weigh in. Listen to this guy, he is an expert.



I want a port to something that works flawlessly with Sonar, or any other DAW and Video editing Software...on PC or parts for computer...or recording as a good scribe should.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

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jpetersen
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Re: Sonar Optimize Win 10 : MMCSS 2017/06/27 20:43:23 (permalink)
There was a thread at the top of this forum (no gone), titled something like:
"Your DAW is not a game".
 
Might be worth looking that up again. (must confess, I just skimmed over it)
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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Sonar Optimize Win 10 : MMCSS 2017/06/28 05:53:34 (permalink)
Timur Born
My opinion is that DAWs should handle their priorities, including MMCSS priorities of their audio driver thread. Unfortunately Steinberg thinks differently and did not allow me to persuade them otherwise. According to the current ASIO standard every audio driver should use MMCSS permanently for ASIO. In practice this is not the case, especially for older hardware.
 
Some software even gets in trouble when the audio driver pushes its own thread to MMCSS while the DAW threads run at lower priorities. Two examples are Reaper before it introduced MMCSS on its own and Live before it included a (non optional) workaround that forces the driver threads back down to priority 15 (non MMCSS). I know of at least one intermediate Live version where this ceased to work, but was fixed again later.
 
It's still a mess, which is why RME's driver allows to switch driver based MMCSS on/off. Since Sonar handles MMCSS by itself you should turn the RME driver MMCSS option *off*, for Cubase should turn it on, other software varies.




It would be really good if Noel could comment on that subject ... best practice in terms of what settings to use with drivers most often found in the Sonar community apart from RME ...

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#14
Timur Born
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Re: Sonar Optimize Win 10 : MMCSS 2017/06/28 07:21:02 (permalink)
In 2010 or 2011 Noel answered in an interview:
 
"In SONAR with ASIO or other driver modes, we automatically register all relevant threads to use MMCSS so there is no need for a driver to do this. I'm not sure why driver vendors are setting thread priorities for MMCSS since this is really a host function. You should make sure that MMCSS is NOT enabled at the driver level or bad things will happen."
 
I agree with Noel that this should be a host function, unfortunately Steinberg - and thus the ASIO specs - do not. In theory every current ASIO driver should use MMCSS for its driver threads now, in practice this likely is not the case. We are talking about the single main driver thread every DAW is using. All the additional multi-core threads created by a DAW are handled by the DAW. Problems can (and do) arise when the priority of these threads are different.
 
DAWs that do not support MMCSS get in trouble when the driver thread uses MMCSS (24-26) while all their own multi-core threads do not (15). Live was one example, before they implemented a workaround that forced the driver's MMCSS thread back down to 15. Reaper was another example, before they implemented MMCSS.
 
DAWs that do support MMCSS only for their own multi-core threads (24-26) may get in trouble when the driver thread does not use MMCSS (15). Cubase is an example of this, because it expects the driver to do its own MMCSS, which older drivers are incapable of.
 
DAWs that support MMCSS for driver and multi-core threads (Sonar) usually may or may not care when the driver uses its own MMCSS priority. This is where Noel suggested that Sonar may get in trouble. The reason is that Sonar may use slightly different MMCSS priorities than the driver. That being said, in the past there was a difference between Sonar and the RME driver priority (24 vs. 26) and it did not really cause much of any issues. At one point Sonar changed ASIO MMCSS priority from 24 to 26, too.
post edited by Timur Born - 2017/06/28 08:38:02
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arachnaut
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Re: Sonar Optimize Win 10 : MMCSS 2017/06/28 15:47:25 (permalink)
I've  just played with the Affinity setting (used #55555555 to allow every other core).
 
This was at
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Multimedia\SystemProfile\Tasks\Pro Audio
 
It doesn't seem to work. The technical docs from MS mentioned above
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms684247(v=vs.85).aspx
says that a lot of the registry keys in there are not even used, maybe this is one.
 
I was expecting Sonar to use every other logical core - one physical core - exclusively.
 
I was trying to solve this problem:
 
Is Hyperthreading bad for Reaktor?
http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3623533
 
 

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Sir Les
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Re: Sonar Optimize Win 10 : MMCSS 2017/06/28 19:13:42 (permalink)
Well this is too deep for my understandings...sorry if I ruffle feathers, and make things difficult to understand my meanings.
As a witnessing here with PC, and windows...resetting settings....no matter what you do in regedits....if it conflicts with MS construct and will or method they want to use your machine for....if you make change to working parts of that process...and hack into to make work, ...in user controls..or edits...and it hampers their wants or desires over ruling your wants and desires...if it harms their seeking intel..or market shares of underhanded gained information of desires for to buy or sell...market shares insider knowledge of movements towards or against....ethical or moral or unions ....either or...said or made known....anything to harm their estate of so called control over....They can reset any settings...overwrite any changes...and or turn off or sabotage your belongings tied to this machine.
 
also tied to electrical...any electronic device, can and will be used against anyone trying to undermine them.
 
 
Who are they?......The fallen ones!
 
ugly war mongering bastards killing life, at a alarming rate of decay....they hate Humans?....no, they are Humans!...unkind to one who made all life live....And the only reason is....they cannot rule it long with lies and liars, bent and twisted....it goes to chaos!.
 
 
So, Give, share, caring for the whole hole of life....is the proper way to live....They hate that way?.
 
 
Yes!
 
 
So, why waste time hacking into this regedit?....they will only overwrite it with a forced update, if you undo, what they want done....turn your home into a trace track and base to launch mayhem from to attack other nations with..a bot...a node...and place of resting in your home...doing things, you know not are being done....spying on all....
 
 
 
Where is the Trust in that first put to do?...is imposing on..to make mistrust...in that...a means to continue to make warfare necessary.
 
 
Look....is internet now becoming not a safe place also?.
 
That is showing up in the news as being virus laden...and entrapments also...and debased mind is on electrical put...negative and positive thoughts....some say conspiracy theory...using assumed or assumption...and some using reasoning skills of wisdom and math....things are occurring of, nature as signs, signets, and same old stories said are myth...no longer so...animanls are being harmed now...life is being poisoned by industrial madness.
 
Food is not safe in some circles of news....Flour making people sick?.
meat not good to eat said safe?...but holds same sicknesses..is all tied to..money?...surely not all!
 
But we see some of this is abounding in measure..not decressing...it is wide spread...and the system is spreading it.
 
 
I would say...time to listen..to the spirit of Truth.
 
If my machine, was reset my settings....what do you think regedit will do, if they do not like your tweakings of it, if it hampers their desires to use or open, to use your machine for their bent attacks on ....enemy Mime?....Who is creating the mistrust?....THEY ARE....in their own bent minds, they know they do wrong...but fear being exposed!
 
 
And , they have been!
 
 
Ugly people...it is not a game!
 
Wake up!
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

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2.  USING MAC PRO, as win 10 has damaged 2 x99 systems 8.1 is also to blame for the final burnout trying to roll back!
 
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reginaldStjohn
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Re: Sonar Optimize Win 10 : MMCSS 2017/06/28 19:50:37 (permalink)
?

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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Sonar Optimize Win 10 : MMCSS 2017/06/28 20:48:49 (permalink)
All his post are like that ... following the 2nd law of thermodynamics...

Can't be bothered to read that anymore

.

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#19
arachnaut
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Re: Sonar Optimize Win 10 : MMCSS 2017/06/28 21:57:50 (permalink)
I think he means every time we change something Microsoft comes up with an update and it overwrites our choices.
I find things like Program Defaults should never be altered on updates.
 
It's an interesting philosophical point - Microsoft owns the software, but we own our personal settings. They are very careful to protect their intellectual property but nonchalant about our choices and settings.

- Jim Hurley -
SONAR Platinum - x64  - Windows 10 Pro 
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#20
taccess
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Re: Sonar Optimize Win 10 : MMCSS 2017/06/28 22:46:02 (permalink)
arachnaut
I've  just played with the Affinity setting (used #55555555 to allow every other core).
 
This was at
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Multimedia\SystemProfile\Tasks\Pro Audio
 
It doesn't seem to work. The technical docs from MS mentioned above
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms684247(v=vs.85).aspx
says that a lot of the registry keys in there are not even used, maybe this is one.
 
I was expecting Sonar to use every other logical core - one physical core - exclusively.
 
I was trying to solve this problem:
 
Is Hyperthreading bad for Reaktor?
http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3623533
 
 


My opioin is u should leave the affinity alone ,

Sounds to me that you may need to make sure MMCSS. Is enabled in platinum , and if you have a quad core or above defiantly make sure your AUD.INI is set to : ThreadSchedulingModel=2 , this will spread the load across the threads .
My first core use to be the Peking Duck until I enabled this and now even on the biggest projects it sits lower than the rest just like the grumpy old troll (: , who lives under the bridge , of course !

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#21
arachnaut
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Re: Sonar Optimize Win 10 : MMCSS 2017/06/28 23:44:04 (permalink)
I use MMCSS and I've left it untouched. I have ThreadSchedulingModel=2.
I have, for the most part, let Windows and the DAW do the work. I have no registry tweaks for performance.
This is the first time I tried something like this and it doesn't work as I expected.
 
Spreading load across threads (or logicals cores) is exactly what I am talking about here.
 
It doesn't seem to work that way, not all logical cores are equal.
 
 

- Jim Hurley -
SONAR Platinum - x64  - Windows 10 Pro 
ASUS P8P67 PRO Rev 3.0;  Core i7-2600K@4.4GHz; 16 GB G.SKILL Ripjaws X;
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#22
taccess
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Re: Sonar Optimize Win 10 : MMCSS 2017/06/29 00:07:35 (permalink)
arachnaut
I use MMCSS and I've left it untouched. I have ThreadSchedulingModel=2.
I have, for the most part, let Windows and the DAW do the work. I have no registry tweaks for performance.
This is the first time I tried something like this and it doesn't work as I expected.
 
Spreading load across threads (or logicals cores) is exactly what I am talking about here.
 
It doesn't seem to work that way, not all logical cores are equal.
 
 


I just want to say that i Had a Alienware Laptop + 6 Core 980x and Platinum hated them both so off they went !
 
Yes it may have been my specific hardware config with those PC's but just saying computers are different and going through all of your bios and software settings from scratch again would be what i would do.
Thoroughly understand each setting you make is the key.
 
Just make sure with Reaktor that if it is a 1 core hog that your not searching for something that's not possible either.
This may help :
http://forum.cakewalk.com...lization-m3506335.aspx

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#23
arachnaut
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Re: Sonar Optimize Win 10 : MMCSS 2017/06/29 02:00:43 (permalink)
It's not specific to any DAW - Sonar, Live and Reaper show the same anomalies.
I think it is due to identical VSTs loaded in adjacent logical cores because when loaded into separate physical cores the problem goes away - see the post here:
http://forum.cakewalk.com/Is-Hyperthreading-bad-for-Audio-m3623533.aspx#3623533
and these tests from 2015:
http://www.arachnaut.net/Reaktor/This%20is%20the%20result%20of%20a%20series%20of%20tests%20I%20made%20using%20two%20DAWs.pdf
 
I can run 20 different Maschine 2 projects at once if each is different. All the while running Kasperky AV, WiFi ON, no cheating here. At 73C cpu temp like here, the clock throttling in the CPU starts to kick in. I'd have to go with water cooling to do better:



- Jim Hurley -
SONAR Platinum - x64  - Windows 10 Pro 
ASUS P8P67 PRO Rev 3.0;  Core i7-2600K@4.4GHz; 16 GB G.SKILL Ripjaws X;
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64-Bit audio, SR: 48kHz, ASIO 256 samples latency, Rec/Play I/O Buffers 512k, Total Round Trip Latency 13 ms, Pow-r 3 dither 
#24
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Re: Sonar Optimize Win 10 : MMCSS 2017/06/29 02:20:49 (permalink)
taccess
...
Just make sure with Reaktor that if it is a 1 core hog that your not searching for something that's not possible either.
...



This is precisely the issue. If Reaktor tops out in a single core, we have to split our Reaktor project into chained parts and put them in a DAW using the DAW's threading capabilities over different tracks.
 

- Jim Hurley -
SONAR Platinum - x64  - Windows 10 Pro 
ASUS P8P67 PRO Rev 3.0;  Core i7-2600K@4.4GHz; 16 GB G.SKILL Ripjaws X;
GeForce GT 740; Saffire Pro14 MixControl 3.7; Axiom 61
64-Bit audio, SR: 48kHz, ASIO 256 samples latency, Rec/Play I/O Buffers 512k, Total Round Trip Latency 13 ms, Pow-r 3 dither 
#25
taccess
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Re: Sonar Optimize Win 10 : MMCSS 2017/06/29 04:14:28 (permalink)
arachnaut
taccess
...
Just make sure with Reaktor that if it is a 1 core hog that your not searching for something that's not possible either.
...



This is precisely the issue. If Reaktor tops out in a single core, we have to split our Reaktor project into chained parts and put them in a DAW using the DAW's threading capabilities over different tracks.
 


 
Iam in the middle of adding some missing information to the AUD.INI Alphabetical Manual, i am not sure if this will help !
 
EnableSetThreadIdealProcessor=<0,1> (default=1)
Disable only if you wish to force CPU affinity to something other than the default core chosen by SONAR, which might improve efficiency when running two or more audio programs at once. For example, an out-of-process synthesizer (via ReWire) or a bitbridged instrument.

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#26
Sir Les
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Re: Sonar Optimize Win 10 : MMCSS 2017/06/29 06:48:21 (permalink)
Rob[atSound-Rehab]
All his post are like that ... following the 2nd law of thermodynamics...

Can't be bothered to read that anymore

.


Yep like wise, continuing to solve for X..here, I read continually those using the factoring and algebra method of solving for x y z and other variables never truly solving for them, and if they do, something else comes to screw up the works....eh?....Why?...you know they will change the code or core of that tweaking of fiddling......so all you do, will need updating eventually...and all the tweaking of if so done, will only come to not be of any regards, and made redundant eventually!.
 
So, why continue to fix..what should not be broken?...and post trying methods, if they be futile?
 
Just use the 1st law of Quantum...Truth.
 
if you find lies were used....and it does not work as said when sold...return it for a full refund...asap!
 
 
Lies used, make troubles be!
 
 
And there are bugs in the pudding put!....so...Proof...or prove me wrong!....Still fiddling with what regedit, and changing key hexi?....ok....did it work out?...if it does, it will be over ruled if it cause issues with...The MS over lords of mayhem.
 
So...I believe enough Proof...or proving...algebra math..is not enough to over rule lies or liars who now use too many variables in the put form of equation of their makings...to solve for, if one or more are continually changing...YOU CANNOT SOLVE FOR ANY!...For they will only lie more so, to keep you believing, a cure is coming for the bugs put in, and more payment for, more support plans sold, more techies and such..made of,or for...or the errors made in...yet, once that is done....More error is put via the MS over lords by way of updates and mandates You know nothing about?....Well some have said, and some has been exposed!
 
lol///
 
When you finish tweaking regedit and keys.....Play some candy crush...it comes with the OS now, and pop ups galour if you do not know how to stop them..Candy Crush?...it could be a farce face put over the ugly one, so you believe it is harmless for the children!...and some you can remove, and some you cannot...although they put a button to turn it off.....What other code did they put in...to keep it there as needed if so when so needed by whom?...certainly not those wanting a clean os...and lean...performance is to keep the resources down to minimum, to allow the DAW AND THE PARTS TO WORK FLAWLESSLY....AND ALL THAT SAIL WITH HER MAKING OF USER AND THEIR MACHINES...I did not give permission for the installing of A game...but there it is and others!....interesting how the machine has a Security to stop unwanted installs....Yet the MS people believe, they have the right to install what ever they want on your machine!......Proof?
 
And while playing candy crush...try to see you get some sleep from the troubleshooting of the bugs put into to make it hickup!...
 
 
And drink plenty of river water unfiltered to get the best rest possible...and do not mind the smog in the morning...it will lift up with a good cup of poison coffee or tea...to make you expel the dirty waters you drank, because you saw not to protect the water, or the lands made defiled, or the things that make it be defiles so much....Because you and your head, now wares a electronic box on it....tinkering with supposed fixing, yet is always made not so working proper...to keep many heads in it...lead astry for their true calling of..dominion over life and the living things!...not taken care to ponder about the pollution now over loaded with heavy metals and toxins put for selfishness of greed.
 
 
Now after so many days, months, years, of newer, and newer, and more and more added into, and less and less ports used.....is it better?....no, same thing!...still crashes...still freezes...still not proper, but some work might get done if this or that or we try this or that or that or this...maybe it is the order of tweaking in certain backwards or forwards doing some, and then undoing and doing it the other way that solves it...but as soon as it is solved....something will come along and make it not solved again!.....
 
 
Right?.....So why bother?/....let them fix it...just say...that is what life time updates were paid for forward...just say, and do..and walk...it is not proper made as of time of release....and it had bugs put of many third and os doings...to keep people tied to it.
 
Candy crush on a business machine in office...is something to entrap the workers not working?.
 
 
or is it the other way around...cannot work in business because too much gaming is pushed or the temptation to play...when work it should be doing it cannot do ...what it said it could do.
 
but is sure tied em up!...eh?
 
 
 
cheers
 
 
 

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#27
arachnaut
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Re: Sonar Optimize Win 10 : MMCSS 2017/06/29 16:56:19 (permalink)
taccess
 
 
Iam in the middle of adding some missing information to the AUD.INI Alphabetical Manual, i am not sure if this will help !
 
EnableSetThreadIdealProcessor=<0,1> (default=1)
Disable only if you wish to force CPU affinity to something other than the default core chosen by SONAR, which might improve efficiency when running two or more audio programs at once. For example, an out-of-process synthesizer (via ReWire) or a bitbridged instrument.




 
I have 
 
EnableSetThreadIdealProcessor=True
 
I'll try setting it to False.
 
I presume True=1 and False = 0
 
I don't know if I changed this from the default.
 

- Jim Hurley -
SONAR Platinum - x64  - Windows 10 Pro 
ASUS P8P67 PRO Rev 3.0;  Core i7-2600K@4.4GHz; 16 GB G.SKILL Ripjaws X;
GeForce GT 740; Saffire Pro14 MixControl 3.7; Axiom 61
64-Bit audio, SR: 48kHz, ASIO 256 samples latency, Rec/Play I/O Buffers 512k, Total Round Trip Latency 13 ms, Pow-r 3 dither 
#28
arachnaut
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Re: Sonar Optimize Win 10 : MMCSS 2017/06/29 17:11:00 (permalink)
Let me summarize my problem again.
 
I have a monstrous Reaktor ensemble that takes about 90% of my fast system CPU in one core running at 4.3GHz.
I want you to be able to run this on your laptop at 2.8 GHz.
 
I am forced to split it into parts and let a DAW place these parts in separate cores. I have the ability to adjust the load in this Reaktor ensemble.
 
So, first I make two copies.
 
As a test, I chose 70% as a max for me (for you I  might chose 30%, but this is just a test).
 
When I do this and test with Live as my DAW, I find Live always places these two instances in adjacent logical cores, both are always in the same physical core.
 
I can't get two instances to run in Live - audio glitches.
 
Now I try Sonar.
 
Sonar places them in separate physical cores but it has a lot of overhead. I can get three copies to run, but sometimes it glitches.
 
Now I try Reaper. It is similar to Live. Only 2 instances glitch.
 
But if I tell Reaper to use cores 1, 3, 5 and 7, I can load 4 instances.
 
If I turn Hyperthreading off I can also run 4 instances.
 
I would prefer a solution that doesn't involve hand-selecting a DAW or having a user do anything. Especially not something that involves changing BIOS parameters.
 
I am willing to believe that I might have something weird set up, or that I am misunderstanding or mis-using something - I just don't know what to do next.
 
I've been facing this issue since I first saw it in 2015.
 
I have never been able to find someone who will try to replicate my tests or replicate my results except for one programmer sent me some thread testing software and we experimented for some time with no resolution.
 
 
 
 
 

- Jim Hurley -
SONAR Platinum - x64  - Windows 10 Pro 
ASUS P8P67 PRO Rev 3.0;  Core i7-2600K@4.4GHz; 16 GB G.SKILL Ripjaws X;
GeForce GT 740; Saffire Pro14 MixControl 3.7; Axiom 61
64-Bit audio, SR: 48kHz, ASIO 256 samples latency, Rec/Play I/O Buffers 512k, Total Round Trip Latency 13 ms, Pow-r 3 dither 
#29
Timur Born
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Re: Sonar Optimize Win 10 : MMCSS 2017/07/01 08:59:21 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby taccess 2017/07/02 00:33:53
Either set core affinities for the DAW process manually via Task-Manager or get "Process Lasso" and tell it to set affinities for your specific DAW programs automatically. The latter means that you can set it once for each program and then every time you start a program it uses the same affinities. PL even comes with a simple one-click entry for setting affinity to only physical cores.
 
The reason why Hyperthreading causes trouble in this scenario is because Hyperthreading uses only free core resources for the second logical core, practically "left-overs". Usually only 20-30% of a physical core can be used for Hyperthreading, the rest of the hardware is already used by the other logical core. Interestingly this is an area where AMD Ryzen is said to work quite well, I did not find time to check that yet, though.
#30
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