John
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 30467
- Joined: 2003/11/06 11:53:17
- Status: offline
Sonar Platinum Sounds 20 to 40% better!
The title is somewhat true but its also a bit of fun. Seriously though. I recently picked up Samplitude Pro X2. I have being playing with it and the other day I loaded a song I did in Sonar; a stereo wave file into Sam and played it in the wave editor. Everything was there but it sounded a little dull. Also its stereo image didn't have a nice broad sound. Because it sounded so insipid I closed Sam and opened Sonar loaded the same file and played it back. It did not sound dull it sounded great. The stereo image was superb. I don't know why this was true there were no plugins in either program. I bring this up because I found this awhile back. http://recording.org/threads/sonar-x1-sound-quality-vs-samplitude-pro-x.50528/ I don't think that blog is well done but the conclusion is also hard to believe. What do you all think?
|
Zargg
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 10666
- Joined: 2014/09/28 04:20:14
- Location: Norway
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar Platinum Sounds 20 to 40% better!
2015/06/05 12:27:12
(permalink)
It is always reassuring to know that we are on "the right" team 
Ken Nilsen ZarggBBZWin 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
|
Brando
Max Output Level: -47.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2776
- Joined: 2003/11/06 11:47:20
- Location: Canada
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar Platinum Sounds 20 to 40% better!
2015/06/05 12:37:13
(permalink)
There's a blast from the past. I would suspect a difference in pan laws, or something more subjective - like you like the sonar gui more. I find a lot of music appreciation is aided by visual cues. i have a little laptop with a big screen receiving an output from my headphone amp into a visualizer application to provide visual stimulation when I am creating (loose term for making noise). Adds immensely to the experience. My version of the old lava lamp.
Brando
Cakewalk, Studio One Pro, Reaper Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL ASUS Prime Z370-A LGA1151, 32GB DDR4, Intel 8700K i7, 500 GB SSD, 3 x 1TB HDD, Windows 10 Pro 64
|
Brando
Max Output Level: -47.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2776
- Joined: 2003/11/06 11:47:20
- Location: Canada
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar Platinum Sounds 20 to 40% better!
2015/06/05 12:38:27
(permalink)
Scratch pan laws - i see it's a stereo mix
Brando
Cakewalk, Studio One Pro, Reaper Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL ASUS Prime Z370-A LGA1151, 32GB DDR4, Intel 8700K i7, 500 GB SSD, 3 x 1TB HDD, Windows 10 Pro 64
|
sharke
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 13933
- Joined: 2012/08/03 00:13:00
- Location: NYC
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar Platinum Sounds 20 to 40% better!
2015/06/05 12:42:02
(permalink)
None of these "DAW X sounds different to DAW Y" claims are ever backed up with science.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
|
John
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 30467
- Joined: 2003/11/06 11:53:17
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar Platinum Sounds 20 to 40% better!
2015/06/05 12:49:58
(permalink)
Brando
There's a blast from the past. I would suspect a difference in pan laws, or something more subjective - like you like the sonar gui more. I find a lot of music appreciation is aided by visual cues. i have a little laptop with a big screen receiving an output from my headphone amp into a visualizer application to provide visual stimulation when I am creating (loose term for making noise). Adds immensely to the experience. My version of the old lava lamp.
You may have a point. I really don't know why there was a sonic difference. Its funny though that you bring that up because if you know where the 20 to 40% comes from it was about pan laws. CW actually redid there pan laws to allow for different ones when that thread was posted.
|
John
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 30467
- Joined: 2003/11/06 11:53:17
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar Platinum Sounds 20 to 40% better!
2015/06/05 12:52:03
(permalink)
sharke
None of these "DAW X sounds different to DAW Y" claims are ever backed up with science.
They shouldn't. I agree. But I did hear a noticeable difference in favor of Sonar. Please don't ask me why.
|
jbow
Max Output Level: -0.2 dBFS
- Total Posts : 7601
- Joined: 2003/11/26 19:14:18
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar Platinum Sounds 20 to 40% better!
2015/06/05 13:25:52
(permalink)
Sonar Platinum is actually analog. Don't tell anyone..
Sonar Platinum Studiocat Pro 16G RAM (some bells and whistles) HP Pavilion dm4 1165-dx (i5)-8G RAM Octa-Capture KRK Rokit-8s MIDI keyboards... Control Pad mics. I HATE THIS CMPUTER KEYBARD!
|
Sanderxpander
Max Output Level: -36.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3873
- Joined: 2013/09/30 10:08:24
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar Platinum Sounds 20 to 40% better!
2015/06/05 13:45:54
(permalink)
Perhaps Sonar was playing at a slightly louder volume, or 24 bit vs 16 bit, Samplitude accidentally summed to mono (that would actually exactly make it sound "dull and lifeless"), something like that. Samplitude is a pretty professional package, I've used it in the studio where I went to school. I've never noticed it sounding any less than the other DAWs they had and I had.
|
John
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 30467
- Joined: 2003/11/06 11:53:17
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar Platinum Sounds 20 to 40% better!
2015/06/05 13:49:10
(permalink)
Sanderxpander
Perhaps Sonar was playing at a slightly louder volume, or 24 bit vs 16 bit, Samplitude accidentally summed to mono (that would actually exactly make it sound "dull and lifeless"), something like that. Samplitude is a pretty professional package, I've used it in the studio where I went to school. I've never noticed it sounding any less than the other DAWs they had and I had.
The file is 24 bits. Your other points are good ones too. I will check them out. However, it was producing a stereo output. I could tell by the meters on my mixer.
|
bitman
Max Output Level: -34 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4105
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:11:54
- Location: Keystone Colorado
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar Platinum Sounds 20 to 40% better!
2015/06/05 13:49:17
(permalink)
Oh no, not again John.
That has actually been a saying around my home now, such as my wife's cooking is 20% - 40% better than mine etc..
We are damaged goods from this forum.
|
Guitarmech111
Max Output Level: -24.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5085
- Joined: 2003/11/06 10:18:53
- Location: Bayou City, TX
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar Platinum Sounds 20 to 40% better!
2015/06/05 13:50:45
(permalink)
Still missing the audio view... ;)
Peace, Conley Shepherd Joyful Noise Productions PC config: (Win performance base score = 7.7) ASUS Sabertooth 990 FX -amd fx-8150 - core processor am3+ - 32G Corsair 1066 DDR3 - PNY GTX670 2g gddr5 - Corsair Force SSD 120G - Samsung 750G SATA drives - WD 1tb Black (Audio files) - WD 2TB for storage - RME UFX - USB ASIO 2/2016 drivers Win8  Without a mess, there is no message
|
John
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 30467
- Joined: 2003/11/06 11:53:17
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar Platinum Sounds 20 to 40% better!
2015/06/05 13:56:52
(permalink)
bitman
Oh no, not again John.
That has actually been a saying around my home now, such as my wife's cooking is 20% - 40% better than mine etc..
We are damaged goods from this forum.
That is a great story! You may be right about being damaged goods. But I also thought we could all use a laugh. I'm not convinced that what I heard was the normal way Sam sounds but the blog was so darn unscientific yet the blogger was sure of his facts. I thought you all would like to read it. I had no reason to post about it until this happened. I respect Samplitude thats why I bought it.
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar Platinum Sounds 20 to 40% better!
2015/06/05 14:21:55
(permalink)
Brando
Scratch pan laws - i see it's a stereo mix
Not sure about this, but wouldn't it still make a difference? After all a stereo mix has material in the center, which is affected even if the panpot is centered. This article I did about panning laws shows the differences graphically.
|
Jyri T.
Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
- Total Posts : 280
- Joined: 2004/01/04 13:15:35
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar Platinum Sounds 20 to 40% better!
2015/06/05 14:30:42
(permalink)
John
sharke
None of these "DAW X sounds different to DAW Y" claims are ever backed up with science.
They shouldn't. I agree. But I did hear a noticeable difference in favor of Sonar. Please don't ask me why.
Why?
|
Zargg
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 10666
- Joined: 2014/09/28 04:20:14
- Location: Norway
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar Platinum Sounds 20 to 40% better!
2015/06/05 14:45:51
(permalink)
Jyri T.
John
sharke
None of these "DAW X sounds different to DAW Y" claims are ever backed up with science.
They shouldn't. I agree. But I did hear a noticeable difference in favor of Sonar. Please don't ask me why.
Why?
Hi hi 
Ken Nilsen ZarggBBZWin 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
|
John
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 30467
- Joined: 2003/11/06 11:53:17
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar Platinum Sounds 20 to 40% better!
2015/06/05 14:47:30
(permalink)
Because I have no clue why.
|
kitekrazy1
Max Output Level: -40 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3524
- Joined: 2014/08/02 17:52:51
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar Platinum Sounds 20 to 40% better!
2015/06/05 15:00:52
(permalink)
You are one of the view in DAW forums who said the app they use sounds better than DAW X. So many times it's the other way around.
|
John
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 30467
- Joined: 2003/11/06 11:53:17
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar Platinum Sounds 20 to 40% better!
2015/06/05 15:03:28
(permalink)
kitekrazy1
You are one of the view in DAW forums who said the app they use sounds better than DAW X. So many times it's the other way around.
I'm not sure if you have this right. I'm saying Sonar Plat e sounds better. Are you saying that? I may have read your post wrong.
post edited by John - 2015/06/05 15:09:32
|
ampfixer
Max Output Level: -20 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5508
- Joined: 2010/12/12 20:11:50
- Location: Ontario
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar Platinum Sounds 20 to 40% better!
2015/06/05 15:11:38
(permalink)
Intangible results are real. I get this all the time with tech stuff like tubes and components. Some products sound better even though they have the same specs. Their probably is a scientific reason buried in the listening tests, but finding it doesn't change the results.
IF you think it sounds better, then it sounds better.
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
|
John
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 30467
- Joined: 2003/11/06 11:53:17
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar Platinum Sounds 20 to 40% better!
2015/06/05 15:16:38
(permalink)
ampfixer
Intangible results are real. I get this all the time with tech stuff like tubes and components. Some products sound better even though they have the same specs. Their probably is a scientific reason buried in the listening tests, but finding it doesn't change the results.
IF you think it sounds better, then it sounds better.
Now thats something I can hang my hat on. Thanks John.
|
kitekrazy1
Max Output Level: -40 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3524
- Joined: 2014/08/02 17:52:51
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar Platinum Sounds 20 to 40% better!
2015/06/05 15:30:13
(permalink)
John
kitekrazy1
You are one of the view in DAW forums who said the app they use sounds better than DAW X. So many times it's the other way around.
I'm not sure if you have this right. I'm saying Sonar Plat e sounds better. Are you saying that? I may have read your post wrong.
Most DAW forums have enough post where Live sounds better than Logic or "Wow I just tried the Pro Tools demo and it sounds so much better". I think it's often a placebo effect.
|
Brando
Max Output Level: -47.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2776
- Joined: 2003/11/06 11:47:20
- Location: Canada
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar Platinum Sounds 20 to 40% better!
2015/06/05 16:15:39
(permalink)
Anderton
Brando
Scratch pan laws - i see it's a stereo mix
Not sure about this, but wouldn't it still make a difference? After all a stereo mix has material in the center, which is affected even if the panpot is centered. This article I did about panning laws shows the differences graphically.
Hi Craig. I don't know to be honest. I would be shocked if you could take a 24 bit stereo mix from DAW to DAW and hear a difference. Differences in pan laws would certainly affect mix decisions and ultimately the final mix but i wouldn't expect the playback of a final stereo mix to differ. But i rely on your expertise (and Bitflipper's) on matters like these to keep me honest. So ..... i dunno.
post edited by Brando - 2015/06/05 16:22:52
Brando
Cakewalk, Studio One Pro, Reaper Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL ASUS Prime Z370-A LGA1151, 32GB DDR4, Intel 8700K i7, 500 GB SSD, 3 x 1TB HDD, Windows 10 Pro 64
|
TheMaartian
Max Output Level: -47.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2774
- Joined: 2015/05/21 18:30:52
- Location: Flagstaff, AZ
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar Platinum Sounds 20 to 40% better!
2015/06/05 17:47:09
(permalink)
John
Sonar Platinum Sounds 20 to 40% better! I know this to be true...since 87.5% of all statistics are made up on the spot!
Intel i7 3.4GHz, 16 GB RAM, 2 TB HD Win10 Home 64-bit Tascam US-16x08 Studio One 4 Pro Notion 6 Melodyne 4 Studio Acoustica 7 Guitar Pro 7 PreSonus FaderPort Nektar P6 M-Audio BX8 D2 Beyerdynamic DT 880 Pro NI K9U XLN AK, AD2 AAS VS-2, GS-2, VA-2, EP-4, CP-2, OD Toontrack SD3, EZK
|
Sanderxpander
Max Output Level: -36.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3873
- Joined: 2013/09/30 10:08:24
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar Platinum Sounds 20 to 40% better!
2015/06/05 18:36:37
(permalink)
If your ASIO device supports multiple clients you could try loading both programs and A/B more effectively. Better yet, first match volumes and then have a family member alt+TAB and play back without you looking.
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar Platinum Sounds 20 to 40% better!
2015/06/05 18:41:24
(permalink)
Brando
But i rely on your expertise (and Bitflipper's) on matters like these to keep me honest. So ..... i dunno.
Well I'm not sure about this so...I dunno either. Maybe Bitflipper will weigh in. But there can be valid dumb reasons why something sounds better or worse. I remember someone saying Live's audio engine was horrible. I advised him that playing a 120 BPM loop at 90 BPM was not exactly a fair test
|
Doktor Avalanche 
Max Output Level: -32.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4294
- Joined: 2015/03/26 18:02:02
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar Platinum Sounds 20 to 40% better!
2015/06/05 18:44:19
(permalink)
I've just been to a motorhead concert. I can confirm.
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
|
John
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 30467
- Joined: 2003/11/06 11:53:17
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar Platinum Sounds 20 to 40% better!
2015/06/05 18:52:04
(permalink)
Sanderxpander
If your ASIO device supports multiple clients you could try loading both programs and A/B more effectively. Better yet, first match volumes and then have a family member alt+TAB and play back without you looking.
I use WDM when ever possible. I have thought of having someone else listen and will when I can. I did retry this today to check and it was the same as before. The file is stereo and the output is stereo. I double checked for plugins and found none. To be completely candid the title is an exaggeration. The difference is much smaller but very noticeable. Putting a percentage on it is silly. I will look into this with greater care and detail. Actually I am not happy to notice this. It means I have a problem with Samplitude. No other wave player such as Sound Forge gives any difference. Nor does Studio One or Reaper.
|
sharke
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 13933
- Joined: 2012/08/03 00:13:00
- Location: NYC
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar Platinum Sounds 20 to 40% better!
2015/06/05 19:45:56
(permalink)
Surely a pan law would not affect the relative balance of elements within a stereo track that's at 100% width i.e. both channels hard panned? For instance if your pan law is set to -3dB center then panning both left and right to center is going to attenuate both sides (and hence the whole mix). But if both sides are hard panned and you switch the pan law from -3dB center to 0dB center then nothing is going to happen because neither channel is panned to the center. There will be, of course, sounds in the stereo mix that are coming from the center, but they're centered by virtue of them existing at the same level in both channels, not because they're being "panned" by any mechanism within Sonar.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
|
bapu
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 86000
- Joined: 2006/11/25 21:23:28
- Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
- Status: offline
Re: Sonar Platinum Sounds 20 to 40% better!
2015/06/05 19:48:00
(permalink)
JohnI recently picked up Samplitude Pro X2. I have being playing with it and the other day I loaded a song I did in Sonar; a stereo wave file into Sam and played it in the wave editor. John, Post a before and after or it did not happen. 
post edited by bapu - 2015/06/05 19:56:38
|