UnderTow
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Re:Sonar X1 could possibly the best 'serious' DAW for 'beat makers'.
2011/01/27 09:44:28
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Crush
I highly suggest anyone reading this watch the below video. You can see American engineering and software development at it's best. It's not what the software CAN do, it's what the software SHOULD do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qx1oKIScaeo
LOL. It is coded by Wolfgang Kundrus, Matthias Juwan, Maik Oppermann and Eike Jonas. Germans.  UnderTow
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UnderTow
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Re:Sonar X1 could possibly the best 'serious' DAW for 'beat makers'.
2011/01/27 09:53:29
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Scott Lee
The end result actually feels more on the line with Sonars workflow then Cubase, which leads me to believe, thier was a heavy American influence on workflow. (Never was a big fan of Cubase's workflow but liked the tools).
Scott, don't lower yourself to the level of the OP. You can not deduce national software design trends based on a couple of applications and frankly, I sincerely doubt any such trends exist. UnderTow
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Sonar X1 could possibly the best 'serious' DAW for 'beat makers'.
2011/01/27 09:57:44
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I'm completely confused now Crush. There must be some real rubbish software out there then....... A sample of some statements you've made about X1 so far......... UNFORTUNATELY WITHOUT SNAP I CANNOT USE THE SOFTWARE AND UNTIL THIS IS FIXED I WILL NOT BE USING SONAR X1. IF NEXT UPDATE IS NOT FIXED I'M GOING TO SELL MY COPY. THE FACT OF THIS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOSzxk654g4 IS SIMPLY DISTURBING TO ME AFTER SPENDING THIS MUCH MONEY AND AFTER SO MANY BUGS THAT IS YOUR PRIORITY?
I AM BOYCOTTING UNTIL THE SNAP IS FIXED! I have to stand by the video as it's clear most here (including Cakewalk) aren't in touch with what the modern electronic producer needs. Wow it falls short so severely. So many things are illogical. But wow Sonar X1 so far from what it seems is a huge let down. Guys. The software is buggy and broken. You guys seem to want to 'take it' though and rush to defend this inexcusable disaster of a release and I could probably fill several pages more............... and this is the best?  OMG the other stuff must be bad. 
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Scott Lee
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Re:Sonar X1 could possibly the best 'serious' DAW for 'beat makers'.
2011/01/27 10:00:22
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"Scott, don't lower yourself to the level of the OP. You can not deduce national software design trends based on a couple of applications"
Undertow thats otterly nonsense!
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WDI
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Re:Sonar X1 could possibly the best 'serious' DAW for 'beat makers'.
2011/01/27 10:06:44
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Crush
Here is a link to some videos of a guy using the Korg M3 that's is pretty cool. Check out the My Studio Setup video and specifically around 4:10 which is the link I pasted. http://www.youtube.com/us...sic#p/u/14/5zyj2z_GE4M But also check out him making beats with the M3. http://www.youtube.com/us...sic#p/u/10/u9cOiVT1RUM
Beats made with those machines will produce 'wack' beats or beats that are no longer desirable.
Here is what people are expecting, note that what your hearing here is a signature FL sound and you would have a lot.. a LOT of added steps trying to make this in other software:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDfv614Wsuw
Again FL's problem is the final mix is HORRIBLE.
LOL, well there you have it. You like FL studio. So just use that and you're done. If you know this all ready I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish with this and other threads you've started on Cakewalk forums. As far as "wack", do people still use that term, I haven't heard that since like the late 80's early 90's, it must again just be an opinion. After checking out that video in the link you posted, I personally like the sound of the M3 landmarqmusic guy. As far as what steps needed to be done to make a good sound, anything you use will take time to learn and understand whether it's Sonar, FL Studio or a hardware workstation. For instance the learning curve on the M3 can be steep. But with time put into it, it is actually very quick.
Sonar 7 PE Windows XP Pofessional (SP3) MSI K8N Neo4-F AMD Athlon 64 3500+ 2 GB PC 3200 Ram RME Fireface 800 Edirol FA-66 CM Labs MotorMix Old stuff: ARJO
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UnderTow
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Re:Sonar X1 could possibly the best 'serious' DAW for 'beat makers'.
2011/01/27 10:16:20
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Crush
Again FL's problem is the final mix is HORRIBLE.
And suddenly it dawns on me. I know why you don't play your own music in your videos even in a video about the type of music you make: You don't know how to mix it and make it sound professional! No DAW will help you with that. If you can't do it in FL Studio, you won't be able to do it in any DAW. It isn't about the tools. It is about who is using them. UnderTow
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aeosus
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Re:Sonar X1 could possibly the best 'serious' DAW for 'beat makers'.
2011/01/27 10:47:34
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I'm a HS music teacher. Virtually all of the kids that make beats use FL (not necessarily exclusively).
Those that get serious about it will then rewire FL with Sonar, Cubase or another platform.
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himalaya
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Re:Sonar X1 could possibly the best 'serious' DAW for 'beat makers'.
2011/01/27 11:15:27
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If you had any hands on experience with Studio One yet, much of the workflow feels similar to Sonar though. Its very apparent the Americans behind Presonus design team have been heavily influencing not only the modelled hardware plugins, but the workflow of the DAW. I saw in the video the OP posted that Studio One is based a lot on drag and drop...now what was the first company to make drag and drop such an important workflow design....Ableton Live! Made where? Ger....... So in effect, whatever the American employees at PreSonus came up with, was already functioning for years in another host. I'm just writing this for the OP's benefit, to show some light in his ignorant tunnel. But I suspect we are being played by a troll. LOL.
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Scott Lee
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Re:Sonar X1 could possibly the best 'serious' DAW for 'beat makers'.
2011/01/27 11:23:38
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"I saw in the video the OP posted that Studio One is based a lot on drag and drop"
Then truly you are a authority on Studio One. Carry on!
Best,
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himalaya
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Re:Sonar X1 could possibly the best 'serious' DAW for 'beat makers'.
2011/01/27 11:34:07
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Scott Lee
"I saw in the video the OP posted that Studio One is based a lot on drag and drop"
Then truly you are a authority on Studio One. Carry on!
Best,
Was that sarcasm? Drag and drop is certainly one of the major workflow features in Studio One, as I see from the spec. And this idea wasn't developed by American PreSonus employees, in case you were asking. So I may not be an expert on how Studio One works, but certain design features are obvious and where they come from, is also obvious (hint: not from America, ) . Edit: This is doubly relevant, as the OP points to Studio One and its drag and drop ( hence I refer to it) as if it were some rare beast, a Unicorn of the audio world, but in reality it has existed in at least one host for many years before Studio One was even dreamt of.
post edited by himalaya - 2011/01/27 11:41:48
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Music Miscreant
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Re:Sonar X1 could possibly the best 'serious' DAW for 'beat makers'.
2011/01/27 11:37:00
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Scott Lee
"There lies the problem as far as I'm concerned. Sonar is now being aimed towards the 'beat makers' (i.e. the cut and paste 'Hey I composed this' merchants, not musicians) Those of us who are musicians have to come along for the ride as functionality and GUIs change away from what we need and like."
Here you go for you serious musicians.
All jokes aside, modern music is complex. "Beat Makers" mixed in with live performances is common place in the industry nowadays, you should know this. All it does is streamline the process. The folks that are "arrangers" as who I think you have issues with, can easily be detected in this competitive field.
If technology isnt the tool for you, then hit the reel to reel and shut down the PC. Where all musicians and use the tools available as we see to fit our creative ideas.
No Scott, "Beat Makers" mixed in with live performances is common place in part of the industry nowadays. There is a veritable plethora of music being recorded with no need of these complexities, but still obviously need a DAW.
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Scott Lee
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Re:Sonar X1 could possibly the best 'serious' DAW for 'beat makers'.
2011/01/27 11:48:25
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"but still obviously need a DAW. "
Which goes back to my point. You sequence, beat make, whatever you wish to call it. Its still using the tech to achieve your desired results. When someone comes in and says the tech makes folks "less of a musician" then really they do not grasp the full potential of the tool.
Tools are what we make of them, which, undeniably most modern music use. A abbey roads drumkit sequenced with a live guitairst? a multi track recording with a grand piano overlay? Ya MM, Id say its common.
Best,
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Music Miscreant
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Re:Sonar X1 could possibly the best 'serious' DAW for 'beat makers'.
2011/01/27 12:20:37
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And Ladysmith Black Mambazo want to use the garritan orchestra? And Madeleine Peyroux wants to use a NI New York grand. Oh, sorry, there's only your kind of music, right? :-)
post edited by Music Miscreant - 2011/01/27 12:57:24
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Guest
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Re:Sonar X1 could possibly the best 'serious' DAW for 'beat makers'.
2011/01/27 12:34:03
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Actually Sonar can do some really cool stuff that those other programs can't do. Well, it could do it until X1. I am not going to explain it to you though because they are my things.
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wormser
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Re:Sonar X1 could possibly the best 'serious' DAW for 'beat makers'.
2011/01/27 12:37:20
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Windows 8 x64 Intel i7 950 3.06ghz 6 GB DDR3 1333(1066) OCZ memory Gigabyte X58A-UD3R v.2.0 Delta 66. Seagate 1.0tb drives x4 OS, Audio, VST, Backup Stuff. Mackie MCU Pro Latest. Faderport. Sonar X2, PreSonus 2.x, Reaper.
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Funkybot
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Re:Sonar X1 could possibly the best 'serious' DAW for 'beat makers'.
2011/01/27 12:43:41
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Crush
If you had any hands on experience with Studio One yet, much of the workflow feels similar to Sonar though. Its very apparent the Americans behind Presonus design team have been heavily influencing not only the modelled hardware plugins, but the workflow of the DAW.
The weird thing is that Studio One is the only DAW that has actually used the nationalities of their developers in their advertisements. Too bad, the developers are apparently German, not American.
Intel i7 4790k, ASUS Z97-A mobo, 16GB Kingston DDR3 RAM, Windows 10 x64, UAD2 Duo, RME Fireface 800, Sonar X1/X2 Producer
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wormser
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Re:Sonar X1 could possibly the best 'serious' DAW for 'beat makers'.
2011/01/27 12:49:26
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Funkybot
Crush
If you had any hands on experience with Studio One yet, much of the workflow feels similar to Sonar though. Its very apparent the Americans behind Presonus design team have been heavily influencing not only the modelled hardware plugins, but the workflow of the DAW. The weird thing is that Studio One is the only DAW that has actually used the nationalities of their developers in their advertisements. Too bad, the developers are apparently German, not American.
Maybe they are just proud of their heritage? Or maybe it's a subtle dig at Steinberg? BMW, Audi, Mercedes do this all the time with their commercials. ie:German engineering. Doesn't bother me because the program works very well. They have done an excellent job IMHO. It's not as feature laden as X1, but what is there (a lot in the Pro version) seems to do the job. FWIW, I don't really get the FL vs X1 (or Cubase, Logic, etc for that matter) comparison? Aren't they kind of like apples and oranges? Maybe a better comparison would be FL vs Abelton? Just curious.
Windows 8 x64 Intel i7 950 3.06ghz 6 GB DDR3 1333(1066) OCZ memory Gigabyte X58A-UD3R v.2.0 Delta 66. Seagate 1.0tb drives x4 OS, Audio, VST, Backup Stuff. Mackie MCU Pro Latest. Faderport. Sonar X2, PreSonus 2.x, Reaper.
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UnderTow
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Re:Sonar X1 could possibly the best 'serious' DAW for 'beat makers'.
2011/01/27 13:00:54
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wormser
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOSzxk654g4
Yikes! Why are they associating the brand name Cakewalk with this kind of stuff? That can't be a good idea... (And I hope they include a mini-jack to mini-jack cable for phones with a mini-jack headphone socket). UnderTow
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wormser
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Re:Sonar X1 could possibly the best 'serious' DAW for 'beat makers'.
2011/01/27 13:09:41
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UnderTow
wormser
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOSzxk654g4
Yikes! Why are they associating the brand name Cakewalk with this kind of stuff? That can't be a good idea...
(And I hope they include a mini-jack to mini-jack cable for phones with a mini-jack headphone socket).
UnderTow
Exactly. Bad marketing IMHO.
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ba_midi
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Re:Sonar X1 could possibly the best 'serious' DAW for 'beat makers'.
2011/01/27 13:12:18
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Skyline_UK
There lies the problem as far as I'm concerned. Sonar is now being aimed towards the 'beat makers' (i.e. the cut and paste 'Hey I composed this' merchants, not musicians) who I assume are representing more and more of the market. Hence all DAWs are now converging into one type. Those of us who are musicians have to come along for the ride as functionality and GUIs change away from what we need and like. Bah, humbug, hrmph!
I think a good sequencer/host program can be all things, really. But to say Sonar is being aimed toward the beat makers, I would disagree with. But if a DAW can't do the basic things needed by non-beat-maker musicians, I wouldn't even call it a DAW. Sonar can and does do both. I would say it covers it all fairly well - but could use some tweaks in a few areas as well. I've personally done everything from orchestral scores to hip-hop to house, etc., all in Sonar. And I never felt it held me back in any of those genres, even if I would have liked a little more focus in some areas of the app.
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Fog
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Re:Sonar X1 could possibly the best 'serious' DAW for 'beat makers'.
2011/01/27 13:26:19
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FBB your not the only one.. look at some of the other "wonderful insights" on the other videos .. and it does become a bit clearer..
where as you bother to write / do a guide about something, nice one :) .. crush will just sit here and moan.. what that say ?!?!
crush "we" are not amused :p
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Scott Lee
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Re:Sonar X1 could possibly the best 'serious' DAW for 'beat makers'.
2011/01/27 13:26:23
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Music Miscreant
And Ladysmith Black Mambazo want to use the garritan orchestra?
And Madeleine Peyroux wants to use a NI New York grand.
Oh, sorry, there's only your kind of music, right? :-)
Actually I work for CBS studios in Studio City California. Our Todd A/O sound stage (where many movie/tv orchestral tracks were scored and recorded) was shut down due to home studio scoring tracks (which also reminds me that Sony Studio of which I do work for as well in culiver city california has also limited its scoring stages to very few sessions). I think its fair to assume "common" wasn't out of context MM regardless of genre. Rock, dance, pop, country? I suspect most will also have a sequenced drum part, piano line overlay after the bands left, some humanized lush strings. if it quacks like a beat maker, its probably a beat maker. Best,
post edited by Scott Lee - 2011/01/27 13:34:51
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Scott Lee
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Re:Sonar X1 could possibly the best 'serious' DAW for 'beat makers'.
2011/01/27 13:30:48
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Himalaya,
There is a lot more to Studio One then drag and drop. You should really try it out then come back and tell us about your workflow experience. Its much deeper and intutive then a 2 min youtube video preview.
Best,
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himalaya
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Re:Sonar X1 could possibly the best 'serious' DAW for 'beat makers'.
2011/01/27 13:39:04
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Scott Lee
Himalaya,
There is a lot more to Studio One then drag and drop.
Best,
I bet. But do notice I was replying in relation to what the OP was pointing to, a video of Studio One demonstarting drag and drop. I think it was obvious. You should really try it out then come back and tell us about your workflow experience. Its much deeper and intutive then a 2 min youtube video preview. I suspect that it's deep, but that's not what the OP was pointing to. He was pointing to the ease of use which was demonstrated by the flexible drag and drop, which he pointed to as it was some explusive feature. I merely said, that it's not.
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Scott Lee
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Re:Sonar X1 could possibly the best 'serious' DAW for 'beat makers'.
2011/01/27 13:45:37
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" bet. But do notice I was replying in relation to what the OP was pointing to, a video of Studio One demonstarting drag and drop. I think it was obvious."
I am not the OP, Crush is. For one I never spoke of drag and drop, so Id suggest taking it up with him
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himalaya
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Re:Sonar X1 could possibly the best 'serious' DAW for 'beat makers'.
2011/01/27 13:51:43
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Scott Lee
" bet. But do notice I was replying in relation to what the OP was pointing to, a video of Studio One demonstarting drag and drop. I think it was obvious."
I am not the OP, Crush is. For one I never spoke of drag and drop, so Id suggest taking it up with him
I was. Then you came and answered to me, obfuscating what was being said to the OP, so I felt oblidged to reply. Anyway. I'm out of this thread.
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Scott Lee
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Re:Sonar X1 could possibly the best 'serious' DAW for 'beat makers'.
2011/01/27 13:59:05
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"I was. Then you came and answered to me, obfuscating what was being said to the OP, so I felt oblidged to reply. Anyway. I'm out of this thread. " Again Himalaya, I responded to you about a completely different subject then drag and drop. That should be directed towards the OP Crush.
"The weird thing is that Studio One is the only DAW that has actually used the nationalities of their developers in their advertisements. Too bad, the developers are apparently German, not American. " German coders, American company. Since its a american company, its safe to say they have input on design and a heavy hand in the mechanics of the software. Also, as I pointed out, Presonus are a hardware manufacture of audio gear so they contribute to the technology with hardware specs for modeled host plugins. The Germans/ex steinberg coders are very skilled coders, no one is denying that. But like in cubase, the workflow is quite different from other software packages including Sonar. I've felt over the years that different software packages you can connect with just by design. Im not stating that its a completely German or American product, simply Studio One is a merging of great international ideas. Best,
post edited by Scott Lee - 2011/01/27 18:56:11
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J.O.P
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Re:Sonar X1 could possibly the best 'serious' DAW for 'beat makers'.
2011/01/27 14:00:43
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Oh man this thread... 
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Crush
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Re:Sonar X1 could possibly the best 'serious' DAW for 'beat makers'.
2011/01/27 14:42:56
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I'm a HS music teacher. Virtually all of the kids that make beats use FL (not necessarily exclusively). Those that get serious about it will then rewire FL with Sonar, Cubase or another platform. Thank you. I have a home recording studio now and am trying to get serious. I can't use FL's mixing.
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Crush
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Re:Sonar X1 could possibly the best 'serious' DAW for 'beat makers'.
2011/01/27 15:07:50
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I personally believe that American engineers are the best in the world.
The Germans have historically been great inventors and have won the majority of Nobel Prizes I believe until the mid 1900's.
When it comes to software development, it's most important that the project is being led by Americans and the developers are basically not outsourced from the 3rd world.
Basically, if this was a German company heading the project, I think you would have seen the software come out a lot different.
Germans seem to like 'criptic process' and millions of mouse clicks. Germans like having a dozens of 'mouse tools'. The more the better. Makes the program look more powerful and well engineered. Supposedly if you get a disposable water cooler cup in Germany, there is 'ml' marking points on the side of it. As a home beer brewer myself, the German have all these crazy laws regarding beer purity etc. How high the glass is filled from the top.. all this crazy, criptic stuff.
Americans prefer 1 universal mouse button that does it all.
I think that's the big difference between the two.
(the 3rd world engineers have no place in this discussion and should never be associated with these sorts of projects. It doesn't matter who's heading the project it will turn into a disaster.. familiarity of X1.)
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