Sonar X1 could possibly the best 'serious' DAW for 'beat makers'.

Ok so far I have tried Cubase 5, Ableton Live 8, Maschine, FL Studio (of course), and Sonar X1. I have NOT tried Protools 9 and Logic yet because we have to sneak a Mac laptop away from work for the weekend.

An electronic music producer or 'beat maker' is not an engineer. We're low IQ and not that bright. However we are a massive market.

The way it works currently is like this.

The beat maker makes the beats at home. 99% using FL studio these days. It then gets emailed to the artist. The artist has a hotmail account usually called beats4xxx@hotmail.com or something like that.

The artist may pay the beat maker for the beat.. maybe not. The artist is usually making a mixtape. Although lately this style of producing is now making its way into the major album releases. It's becoming less of being an 'insider' these days.

The artist pays for studio time to rap etc over the FL track. The recordings are NOT done in FL. From what I'm hearing, the studios around London are using Logic. Around the US cities it's Protools and Cubase. They will master and record the vocals in studio.

NOW WHAT IS BEGINNING TO HAPPEN - HOME STUDIOS WITH BEATMAKER 'HOSTING' RECORDING SESSIONS

I am in touch with all the teens and such coming up. Some with amazing talent. I can tell you 100% that the big thing right now is the USB mic make shift bedroom studios. What's also happening is international trading of beats and collaborations is happening. This is currently going on with kids in their teens.

The artist will usually record into a wave recorder with a free CD that they got with their USB mic package. The beat makers (who are young and not computer savvy) cannot properly mix the audio in with FL studio as the mixing is HORRIBLE in FL.

Basically, there is NO UNIVERSAL tool to record vox and make 'beats' for the younger generation out there. This is a huge problem for everyone.

Through all the products I have tried, amazingly, Sonar X1 seems to come closest to this. It has a step sequencer which is a requirement for us, it loop records very easily as my video points out. And it has gotten attention from kids asking me if it's a good alternative to FL. I made it look easy.

I feel the software is very 'close' to have an electronic producer mode which is heavily into snap, loops, and alignment. Also the step sequencer would have to be reworked its flawed and illogical.

Well until the snap is fixed, I have given up and am going back to FL. I'll try Pro Tools and Logic but if Cubase was THAT much of a laugh (especially after all these years to improve), then I'm not holding out hope for Pro Tools/Logic.

But it's almost a 'shame' as it's so so close to being 'that tool' That Sony Vegas that does it all. That 10/10 software. I'm trying to be very clear on what my low IQ, simple mind needs. It's a shame they'd rather consult with 'power users' who *enjoy* complex puzzles. I notice these are the people on the t*t of Cakewalk the most.

You also lost me with the 99% comment using FL studio.

People I deal with the industry in Trance usually use Logic / Live / and Cubase a few protools but not many. (Electro House is similar in respect). These are industry people with album releases played on DI radio. afterhours FM, etc. so it does not reflex total volume of sales of course.

I can of course back up what I say. Simply check this link.

http://www.youtube.com/user/FutureMusicMagazine


Breakcore, and drum & bass you see a lot using renoise and some using fruityloops due to the step recording type of design.

A new contender on the market though that I think allot of folks have been watching is Presonus Studio One. Its amazing.

I also agree with billy, Sonar could do well. They need to fix up and plug the  technical holes that keep folks from producing, get on the modern plugin bandwagon, and tighten the code up.

Best,

Crush


I was talking mainly about hip hop genres. I've never spoken to one producer not using FL. Just look on Youtube for any hip hop tutorial and it's evident.

Yes there are quite a few producers using FL of course.  But your statement about 99% is a little unsubstantiated, I submit.

I'm not disagreeing in general with your comments; but I don't think it's good when someone makes claims as to market share, etc,  without having factually based data.

"Presonus Studio One. Its amazing."

No ones mentioned that.. never heard of it..

I'm definitely going to check it out through cause I see some things I really like in the automation.

I highly suggest anyone reading this watch the below video. You can see American engineering and software development at it's best. It's not what the software CAN do, it's what the software SHOULD do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qx1oKIScaeo

After watching more videos and seeing the working loops and snaps on this video here, I'm going to make testing this a priority and see what I come up with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKk6y3XCMF4

I'm sorry, but I just think this guy's treads are a hoax.
 
And he is so lacking in knowledge about the capabilities of SONAR.

There lies the problem as far as I'm concerned.  Sonar is now being aimed towards the 'beat makers' (i.e. the cut and paste 'Hey I composed this' merchants, not musicians) who I assume are representing more and more of the market.  Hence all DAWs are now converging into one type.  Those of us who are musicians have to come along for the ride as functionality and GUIs change away from what we need and like.  Bah, humbug, hrmph!

You can see American engineering and software development at it's best.

Gee.



Don't I do that every time I boot up Windows?

We're low IQ and not that bright.

Never judge others by your own standards, it's blinkered vision and not lack of intelligence that skews your impressions, if you could get past that you might be pleasantly surprised at the mental capabilities of those around you.

'We' in the context you've used there is the stuff that belongs in a urinal.

Having said that I do so enjoy your posts. Keep it up.

"There lies the problem as far as I'm concerned.  Sonar is now being aimed towards the 'beat makers' (i.e. the cut and paste 'Hey I composed this' merchants, not musicians) Those of us who are musicians have to come along for the ride as functionality and GUIs change away from what we need and like."

Here you go for you serious musicians.



All jokes aside, modern music is complex. "Beat Makers" or "sequenced music" mixed in with live performances is common place in the industry nowadays, you should know this. All it does is streamline the process. The folks that are "arrangers" as who I think you have issues with, can easily be detected in this competitive field.

If technology isnt the tool for you, then hit the reel to reel and shut down the PC.  Where all musicians and use the tools available as we see to fit our creative ideas.
 

Hi Himalaya,

Presonus is a American company ran by Jim Odom. Jim not only was a lead guitarist in the band LeRoux back in the 80s, but worked on the soundtrack for Grammy nominated "Dirty Dancing", European Vacation, etc.

Presonus is a hardware manufacturer with years of technical data that was implemented and helped shape Studio Ones core design by a few of Nuendos/Cubase programmers that left Stienberg after buying KristalLabs Software in 2006.

The end result actually feels more on the line with Sonars workflow then Cubase, which leads me to believe, thier was a heavy American influence on workflow designs mixed in with fantastic german code. (Never was a big fan of Cubase's workflow but liked the tools. Sonar always felt more at home).

Best Regards,

Scott Lee


"There lies the problem as far as I'm concerned.  Sonar is now being aimed towards the 'beat makers' (i.e. the cut and paste 'Hey I composed this' merchants, not musicians) Those of us who are musicians have to come along for the ride as functionality and GUIs change away from what we need and like."

Here you go for you serious musicians.



All jokes aside, modern music is complex. "Beat Makers" mixed in with live performances is common place in the industry nowadays, you should know this. All it does is streamline the process. The folks that are "arrangers" as who I think you have issues with, can easily be detected in this competitive field.

If technology isnt the tool for you, then hit the reel to reel and shut down the PC.  Where all musicians and use the tools available as we see to fit our creative ideas.

Got one of those in my studio closet, as a matter of fact. 

I gave my 3340 away 10 years ago. :-)


I'm just glad to learn that rappers are figuring out that they can use a USB mic and that they don't each have to own a monogrammed Neumann U87.

Used U87s should be hitting the market soon!

FL Studio seems like a very good program.

best regards,
mike

Thomasabarnes

I'm sorry, but I just think this guy's treads are a hoax. 
  
And he is so lacking in knowledge about the capabilities of SONAR.

Yeah, I'm not sure whether to take Crush seriously after this thread... http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?&m=2206447&mpage=1

He deleted my comments on YouTube that mentioned better ways to do things in Sonar and leaves up any comment making Sonar look foolish.

Crush, you can use any program mentioned just fine for electronic music whether it's hip hop or what ever. Sonar works great for this. If you are really serious about it you might want to check out hardware workstations such as Roland Fantom series or Korg workstations such as M3 etc. On the cheaper side of things even things like the Korg Electribe are cool. Hardware can be good because you don't have the hassle of issues associated with computers. Flip the switch and you're ready to go. Computers are cool because they give you a better interface for editing. It's really just a matter of personal taste which no one is going to be able to answer but you.

Here is a link to some videos of a guy using the Korg M3 that's is pretty cool. Check out the My Studio Setup video and specifically around 4:10 which is the link I pasted. 
http://www.youtube.com/user/landmarqmusic#p/u/14/5zyj2z_GE4M

But also check out him making beats with the M3.
http://www.youtube.com/user/landmarqmusic#p/u/10/u9cOiVT1RUM

I don't suppose this guy even realises the CA$H DAWG is on these forums...

I'm wondering if he's even heard of him!

"Did you follow the link? PreSonus is American, but Studio One is based on code by German programmers"

I sure did. As I said in my last post, Presonus is working with KristalLabs Software aka the germans programmers behind Nuendo aka Cubase/Steinberg.  If you had any hands on experience with Studio One yet, much of the workflow feels similar to Sonar though. Its very apparent the Americans behind  Presonus design team have been heavily influencing not only the modelled hardware plugins, but the workflow of the DAW along side of the german developers.


Best,

Scott Lee


"There lies the problem as far as I'm concerned.  Sonar is now being aimed towards the 'beat makers' (i.e. the cut and paste 'Hey I composed this' merchants, not musicians) Those of us who are musicians have to come along for the ride as functionality and GUIs change away from what we need and like."

Here you go for you serious musicians.



All jokes aside, modern music is complex. "Beat Makers" mixed in with live performances is common place in the industry nowadays, you should know this. All it does is streamline the process. The folks that are "arrangers" as who I think you have issues with, can easily be detected in this competitive field.

If technology isnt the tool for you, then hit the reel to reel and shut down the PC.  Where all musicians and use the tools available as we see to fit our creative ideas.

scott i have this teac ..though its not the 2340 it looks just like it..i used to use it for mastering back in the late 80's because it was 1/4 inch tape and not 1/8 like conventional cassette
 
ps.are those pro channel vu's?