sergiobklyn


Hi,
I could not find any mention of notation improvement in Sonar X2.  Does anybody know if there are any changes in the notation engine?
Thanks,
Sergio  

I will not be upgrading to X2 unless we can at the very least have the staff view restored to having the notation functions found in pre X1 Sonar.  Thankfully, Sonar Plus did that for X1 and I was able to use it because of that.  However, now that Benstat works for Cakewalk Sonar Plus will not be available as a second party program. I can only hope that Cakewalk will use his talents in this area.  In repsonse to those who say only a few people want staff view improvements one has only to look at how many people have read this thread. 

Bill51


Is Music XML export only, or will we be able to import also?

Export only  - which is useless if SV is not good enough to use in the first place.

Bluexrysalis


  Just a response to Brett. Protools 10 (the version which runs natively) has a 32 bit floating point sound engine, sorry mate but you're totally wrong there, get your facts right before dissing someone elses product. And it's not a piece of crap, just because you can't figure out how to use it? I've put PT 10 side by side with Sonar X1 and compared the sound engines at 32 bit floating point while recording and rendering the same material, and there is NO discernable difference in sound quality between the two DAWS, they both sound exactly the same. I did the tests using top of the line AD converters and mics, like Mytek AD / Beezneez hand made mics going into an RME PCIe card through the AES interface. I recorded a martin D16 acoustic guitar in an acoustically treated studio. No matter how I compared the samples from the recordings between the 2 DAWS, they sounded identical. Where do people get their facts from, the inside of a public lavatory wall? Always wonder about some of the disinformation being spread on this forum.

You've been using PT for 2 months and you're suddenly an expert? Well, I'm pretty sure you don't know what you're talking about and I doubt you'll make the effort to "get your facts right".

Maybe someone who hasn't been insulted by you may deign to explain the PT fixed point issues to you, but not me.

Now that this thread has been ongoing for a while I'm gonna bring the idea of a paid notation add on that integrates into Sonar again. That really might be something that could get the company moving on it so if more people bandy the idea about maybe it will become a reality. To put it another way if they are going to LOSE money updating the SV maybe a paid tool could make them some money or at least allow them to break even and keep folks using Sonar and/or draw in new customers. As I said it would be something I'd be interesting in paying for because I'm really hammering out my traditional music theory and having a stable and in depth tool within my DAW would help with that. Many others also expressed they would be into it too so yeah... let's keep that discussion open.

@ProjectM... You and I seem rather like minded individuals. It's always a pleasure chatting with you. The nice thing about this plan is they could charge for it until everything is coded and future ready and then just toss it into future versions for free after they've paid off the initial cost. It seems many people here have the opinion that the reason there aren't more people complaining about the staff view is that those people have either left Sonar or never hopped on board in the first place because of the SV. Cakewalk just might swell the Sonar ranks if they fix it because really it is an awesome program for the price. Cheers.

Another idea for a better staff view: to wit, Cakewalk publishes an application program interface (API) into Sonar and lets 3rd party developers build a better staff view. While they're at it, 3rd parties could engineer a new script engine and add other UI features that we don't even know we desperately need (until we see them in action). I'll bet some of those 3rd party developers are members of this forum. (Heck, I had my own custom macro interface hack communicating with a version of Pro Audio many moons ago.)

CW has already opened up the ProChannel API to 3rd parties, enticing them to write PC-friendly plugins. And of course, there are all sorts of supported hooks for hardware interfaces, so a set of hooks into the Staff View for custom apps doesn't seem so far-fetched to me. (Of course, a fully-functional SV doesn't seem far-fetched to me either, so shows what I know....)

So, four strategic-direction suggestions so far for Cakewalk:
1) (Current) CW repeats its intention to do something about SV someday.

2) CW "enhances" staff view as part of the Sonar package, to make it as effective for note manipulation as piano roll view.

3) CW sells an add-on SV module (call it Sonar Staffworthy Edition). I'm buying (as are others in this thread).

4) CW publishes a set of hooks into Track view for 3rd parties to add other views, staff included, or widgets or "apps" or whatamacallems.

5) (Ooops, over my limit.) Okay, wild and crazy, but maybe CW open-sources the Staff View code and lets users have at it. Lots of dots to connect here, but this is a dream thread, right?

Elffin


any updates shown in the webinar?

None.  They briefly viewed some notes in Staff View but there was no mention of improvements.  I asked twice about it but got no reply
 

hmmm.. not even a proper screenshot eh...

BTw guys -  I love the idea of paying for SV improvements.... go get some of the Sibelius guys here in the UK who were laid off by Avid.

sergiobklyn


I went ahead and did the Pre-Sale anyways.  The new stuff looks pretty cool.

TRRAAAAIIITORRRRR!!!!!!!!

keith

sergiobklyn


I went ahead and did the Pre-Sale anyways.  The new stuff looks pretty cool.

TRRAAAAIIITORRRRR!!!!!!!!

I'm struggling with this.
 
I have not seen the webinar, nor do I expect to see the X2 SV in action anytime soon.
 
X2 would have to be outrageously good (features which don't exist in other DAW's) in order for me to upgrade if there were no attention paid to the SV.
 
The rub is weighing a functional SV against the new features of X2.
 
The importance of the SV on the spectrum of DAW features determines which direction each individual goes.
 
All this is obvious.  But if SV IS IMPORTANT, then holding off on the upgrade allows you to vote with your $$$ or lack thereof.
 
 
 
 

pbognar

Elffin


hmmm.. not even a proper screenshot eh...

BTw guys -  I love the idea of paying for SV improvements.... go get some of the Sibelius guys here in the UK who were laid off by Avid.

I'll have to wait for the webinar to be available on youtube - If they showed the SV for even a moment, we should at least be able to see if they incorporated any of Benstat's Sonar Plus improvements.

It appears from the X2 webinar that SV is unchanged from X1.  This will be first release upgrade since Sonar 2 that will skip for now.  Other then that X2 looks to have some great features I don't need.

Elffin


hmmm.. not even a proper screenshot eh...

BTw guys -  I love the idea of paying for SV improvements.... go get some of the Sibelius guys here in the UK who were laid off by Avid.

Here is the X2 Staff View in all its glory
 

 
It doesn't even contain Benstat's Sonar Plus goodness.
 
I do believe that Cakewalk may be trying to send me away. 
 
 

pbognar

Elffin


hmmm.. not even a proper screenshot eh...

BTw guys -  I love the idea of paying for SV improvements.... go get some of the Sibelius guys here in the UK who were laid off by Avid.

Here is the X2 Staff View in all its glory

Where are all the note entry tools?

B

@Brett they did some work on the smart tool so they are probably hidden by default or the guys just hid them because that's how they had things set up. I'd imagine they would reappear through the View tab or launching the HUD.

I did see Noel respond in another thread that Cakewalk respond to the feature request..  so can all of you good people again send in feature requests..


But ....
Why is it so difficult to place music value icons in the SV like Benstat did????  Ben did this when he wasn't involved with Cake... so its a decision by Cakewalk not to include it... 

I just feel its like talking with somebody with their hands on their ears....