Sonar X2 and Maschine 1.8 (seth OR BILL!!-i know you are in here.....HELP ME DUDE)

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bigboi
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Re:Sonar X1 and Maschine 1.6.2 (seth OR BILL-i know you are in here.....HELP ME DUDE) September 28, 12 0:12 PM (permalink)
I hate to do it...well...I actually don't.  This has not been fixed.  We have been through several updates, and an actual BIG UPDATE (X2), and this has not been fixed.  This actually drove me to Studio One.  I still upgraded, out of pure loyalty since I use Studio One now, and I was floored that this has not been fixed in 1 1/2 years.  What gives Seth?  Works perfectly in Studio One.  I support you guys because of the customer service....Love to see you here on the threads.  I just can't understand how a known bug could not be fixed in 1 1/2 years.

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Mystic38
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Re:Sonar X1 and Maschine 1.6.2 (seth OR BILL-i know you are in here.....HELP ME DUDE) September 28, 12 3:33 AM (permalink)
Is this a bug?..yes..  Is it annoying?....yeah, specifically because the ramifications are more than just the use of Maschine.

As additional information for users (and cakewalk) i will add that (assuming a 1 measure count in) this delay is:
 
a. Present when ANY audio or midi track in the project (not just maschine) is being recorded.
b. not in the tracking or sequencing of maschine... the position marker of maschine runs correctly to now time of Sonar, and midi input to maschine is registered correctly at now time.
c. represented as an audio delay of one measure from indicated now time.... ie now time = sonar measure 2, maschine indicated measure 2, Sonar maschine audio track plays measure 1.

had this been an issue with simply recording of a Maschine track then a simple workaround would be to record directly into maschine using Maschine rec button and have Sonar in Play mode.. however this bug means that the rhythm track is always one measure behind whenever any track is being recorded.... effectively this means that to use Maschine fully as a VST you must sacrifice the entire project to have zero count in for the entire duration of recording....

so the workarounds are:
a) No record count-in.
b) use midi metronome : cannot be directed to soft-synth - needs external midi synth or PC midi synth (sluggish)..
c) Record Maschine as stated above (Maschine REC/Sonar PLAY) and then freeze Maschine VST on all other record operations...
d) Use Maschine standalone and drag/drop loops or export tracks to Sonar.
 
none of these methods are efficient or ideal.. so add my +1 to "please please address this"
post edited by Mystic38 - September 28, 12 1:06 PM

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#32
perfectprint
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Re:Sonar X1 and Maschine 1.6.2 (seth OR BILL-i know you are in here.....HELP ME DUDE) September 28, 12 3:42 AM (permalink)
+1+1+1+1 please fix this. it is such a terrible bug that rears its ugly head on EACH AND EVERY ONE of my sessions.

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#33
bigboi
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Re:Sonar X1 and Maschine 1.6.2 (seth OR BILL-i know you are in here.....HELP ME DUDE) September 28, 12 10:04 AM (permalink)
thx so much for speaking up guys. maschine is the backbone of my workflow. in atlanta, clients expect nice beats and drums. i really want to try to come back to sonar, but this one glitch prevents it.  and it had been here for 1.5 years...and  the guys admit it is a bug in sonar.  i just dont get it.  mo luv on this thread from anyone at cakewalk lately scares me.

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#34
Blogman
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Re:Sonar X1 and Maschine 1.6.2 (seth-i know you are in here.....HELP ME DUDE) September 28, 12 10:27 AM (permalink)
  Works great here! Recording in sonar. Follows wherever I'm at in the song.
#35
Mystic38
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Re:Sonar X1 and Maschine 1.6.2 (seth-i know you are in here.....HELP ME DUDE) September 28, 12 11:00 AM (permalink)
Blogman


  Works great here! Recording in sonar. Follows wherever I'm at in the song.
 
I read your work(around) process in this post..http://forum.cakewalk.com/fb.ashx?m=2671407.. you are simply stating that an audio file (a frozen synth) runs in time with Sonar... yay?
 
There is a bug, or you would not need to freeze and unfreeze maschine simply to record some other track..would you? :)
 
So while i am happy that you think your process is "great" please do not confuse the thread by intimating that there is not a bug.. There is, and both current and potential users of Sonar/Maschine are adversely affected.
 

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#36
bigboi
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Re:Sonar X1 and Maschine 1.6.2 (seth-i know you are in here.....HELP ME DUDE) September 28, 12 1:43 PM (permalink)
Alright guys.....lets make it happen.  I just called tech support and spoke to a guy about it.  He seemed to be on the ball.  He said that there was a Native Instruments guru in the house, and that he would look into it.

YOUR TURN.  Have your serial number ready and call 617.423.9021.  Ask for Dean.  I told him that we had quite a number of people looking for the fix.  Give a call, ask for him, and let him know it is a problem!

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#37
bigboi
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Re:Sonar X1 and Maschine 1.6.2 (seth-i know you are in here.....HELP ME DUDE) September 28, 12 1:48 PM (permalink)
ZO...by the way.....are you on Gearslutz?  I think i have seen you on there once or twice talking about high end mastering compressors.....that you?

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#38
Blogman
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Re:Sonar X1 and Maschine 1.6.2 (seth-i know you are in here.....HELP ME DUDE) September 28, 12 2:40 PM (permalink)
By the way, I don't 'have' to freeze, in fact I've left Mashine un-frozen and it bounces to the mix just fine. All patterns going in place (not frozen) I can click around the Sonar timeline ANYWHERE and Maschine follows exactly. I generally freeze everything (or bounce in this case) because it's not uncommon for me to have Lots of virtual synths like VEP5/MIR running strings/horns, percs, maschine, kontakt, more kontakt, etc... I personally like synths bounced/frozen prior to mixing for further eq/editing, however I love loading and automating the Effects in maschine so less treatment is used on those Post anyways. Btw, you have to have ALL of the scenes highlighted in order for maschine to follow Sonars timelines. (double click the gray area under one of the scenes, or Use the pads to select all the scenes) The problem I am having is not being able to use the host control in sonar (aside from using ACT), and customer service was no help for that yesterday.
#39
perfectprint
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Re:Sonar X1 and Maschine 1.6.2 (seth-i know you are in here.....HELP ME DUDE) September 28, 12 3:03 PM (permalink)
blogman - the issue is with recording, not navigating or freezing. again - set an audio count-in and hit record; Maschine will not play back in time. Huge bug.

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#40
Blogman
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Re:Sonar X1 and Maschine 1.6.2 (seth-i know you are in here.....HELP ME DUDE) September 28, 12 3:15 PM (permalink)
Yeah I don't use the count in as Maschine will not play back in time with the count in set. Huge bug, yeah. Just Don't use the count in. I've never used one. I just start on bar 2 or three and I use Sonar's Audio metronome.... once into the song, the pre-roll includes the metronome clicking so.
post edited by Blogman - September 28, 12 3:27 PM
#41
cryophonik
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Re:Sonar X1 and Maschine 1.6.2 (seth-i know you are in here.....HELP ME DUDE) September 28, 12 4:13 PM (permalink)
Blogman


Yeah I don't use the count in as Maschine will not play back in time with the count in set.

Me neither, which is probably why I've never noticed this bug.  I also tend to come up with many ideas/patterns using Maschine in standalone mode, then drag/drop MIDI into Sonar and do my arranging and further editing there.


But, I'll give it a go this evening or this weekend and see if I can replicate it, and request a fix as well.  Does the same bug occur when working with other DAWs (aside from Studio One)?

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#42
bigboi
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Re:Sonar X1 and Maschine 1.6.2 (seth-i know you are in here.....HELP ME DUDE) September 28, 12 4:21 PM (permalink)
Not to my knowledge.  If you dig around the Native Instruments forum, you will find other Sonar users that are having this issue.

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#43
Seth Perlstein [Cakewalk]
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Re:Sonar X1 and Maschine 1.6.2 (seth-i know you are in here.....HELP ME DUDE) September 28, 12 5:47 PM (permalink)
Bigboi,

You have done the right thing in calling tech support and letting them know about the issue, logging the bug, etc. I'm bummed to hear this is still an issue for you and others, and I wish there was something I could do directly to mitigate a fix, but this is just something out of my hands, especially since i don't have Maschine or similar plugin that exhibits this behavior. But it sounds like Dean took your issue and hopefully the devs can take it from there and get a fix done sometime.

SP
#44
Bill Jackson [Cakewalk]
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Re:Sonar X1 and Maschine 1.6.2 (seth-i know you are in here.....HELP ME DUDE) September 28, 12 6:26 PM (permalink)
Yes.  It's great that you have Dean on the case.  I'll touch base with him.  If you guys can't come to a solution, we'll ensure that it's prioritized in the "system" and do what we can to solve it in an update. 

Bill Jackson
Product Manager
Cakewalk

#45
mudgel
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Re:Sonar X1 and Maschine 1.6.2 (seth-i know you are in here.....HELP ME DUDE) September 28, 12 9:30 PM (permalink)
Another one waiting to hear of a fix but calling Tech support from Australia is out of the question. I've only just got Maschine in the recent fire sale before the release of version 2. 

I'm only working with Maschine and laptop at the moment and learning as I go so don't have any experience to contribute but will look on in interest as this issue develops or becomes resolved.

Mike V. (MUDGEL)

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#46
David A. Batson
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Re:Sonar X1 and Maschine 1.6.2 (seth-i know you are in here.....HELP ME DUDE) September 28, 12 10:51 PM (permalink)
Same problem here!
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perfectprint
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Re:Sonar X1 and Maschine 1.6.2 (seth-i know you are in here.....HELP ME DUDE) September 29, 12 4:42 AM (permalink)
Thanks for the response Seth and Bill, most definitely look forward to any update you can provide to resolve this.

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Mystic38
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Re:Sonar X1 and Maschine 1.6.2 (seth-i know you are in here.....HELP ME DUDE) September 29, 12 5:27 AM (permalink)
perfectprint


Thanks for the response Seth and Bill, most definitely look forward to any update you can provide to resolve this.


+1 thanks from here too

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#49
OQ
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Re:Sonar X1 and Maschine 1.6.2 (seth-i know you are in here.....HELP ME DUDE) September 29, 12 1:23 PM (permalink)
Had the same problem since I first got maschine 1.0(using 1.8 now). I had this inaccuracy or latency since I first started using maschine. I would do my composition in maschine and trigger scene changes with patch/bank changes. It would eventually throw off my changes from one scene to another resulting in audible errors. I got fed up and just started dragging dropping audio bits into sonar which I'm using maschine more as an editor-sound/pattern design tool instead of a complete groovebox like it was designed to be. I did realize it was from count in on the metronome also. I just chalked it up to some kind of latency or issue where the two programs were not commuincating effectively. +1

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#50
Blogman
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Re:Sonar X1 and Maschine 1.6.2 (seth OR BILL-i know you are in here.....HELP ME DUDE) September 29, 12 4:39 PM (permalink)
Btw, Just tested Maschine 1.8 with Studio One 2.07 and you can use the 'Count in' with NO troubles whatsoever. Not to mention the new 'Host Controls' work great as well: Insert Maschine as VST, open Controller editor, check 'enable host control', options, external devices, add mackie control, recieve from Maschine In.... Studio One Host control complete with Count in. (One thing I don't like is the erase button is the stop button, so there's no erase/replace when using host control.... tried setting the assignment to off for the erase button in controller editor, but it doesn't give the erase back, just does nothing). Side notes on Studio One version 2.07: Audio Snap works flawlessly in SO2 as well. So does VST3 stuff (loaded up vocal Rider, enabled sidechaining, went to the music bus, add send (sidechain) and Vocal rider is able to compensate for the music. Yaay!!
#51
Zo
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Re:Sonar X1 and Maschine 1.6.2 (seth OR BILL-i know you are in here.....HELP ME DUDE) September 29, 12 5:12 PM (permalink)
Guyz , let me give my humble input :

everything started with Kore and i was having synch issues as well as the first midi note skipped (not layed)!!

the when i first starting to use maschine , the first thing that jumped to my face is the incredible latency this solution create versus for exemple my Wdm based Akai MPd24 dirvers ....i mean buufer like 96 seems like 512 with other controller !! for real ... (some wrong with NI and Sonar communication)


I have no isssue in sonar since i'm using mashine to sequence in and use sonar metronome at 0 (count down)

So for all S1 users ...: do you see/feel a difference in latency (pad response for exmple) in S versus Sonar (of course same project , soundcard , same buffer..)

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#52
stevec
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Re:Sonar X1 and Maschine 1.6.2 (seth OR BILL-i know you are in here.....HELP ME DUDE) September 29, 12 11:00 PM (permalink)
Funny...   I just noticed this yesterday using MUX from Mulab.   No big deal for me as I simply turn the metronome count-in off - a one bar leadin does the trick.   But while it's nothing I'm concerned with I am glad I read this thread since I probably wouldn't have made the metronome connection.  At least not that quickly.
 

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#53
bigboi
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Re:Sonar X1 and Maschine 1.6.2 (seth OR BILL-i know you are in here.....HELP ME DUDE) October 02, 12 1:07 AM (permalink)
For those interested, here is the return email I got:

"I unfortunately didn't get a chance to speak with the NI Maschine specialist this afternoon. However, I sent him, Bill and Seth an email so we can get started on a solution starting Monday. Best,

Dean Capper
Product Support Representative
Cakewalk, Inc"----

If you have not called yet, please be sure to let them know you are having the problem.  This will hopefully help prioritize the fix!

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#54
bigboi
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Re:Sonar X1 and Maschine 1.6.2 (seth OR BILL-i know you are in here.....HELP ME DUDE) October 08, 12 10:35 PM (permalink)
Seth, Ryan, Bill (I know you are working on it), just checking on any progress.  THanks...we are anxiously awaiting!

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#55
Bill Jackson [Cakewalk]
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Re:Sonar X1 and Maschine 1.6.2 (seth OR BILL-i know you are in here.....HELP ME DUDE) October 08, 12 10:39 PM (permalink)
Hi,

There's no way we will be able to share a timeline.  However, we'll do everything we can to make sure this issue is addressed in X2's first official update.

Bill Jackson
Product Manager
Cakewalk

#56
Mystic38
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Re:Sonar X1 and Maschine 1.6.2 (seth OR BILL-i know you are in here.....HELP ME DUDE) October 09, 12 4:09 AM (permalink)
Bill Jackson [Cakewalk
]

Hi,

There's no way we will be able to share a timeline.  However, we'll do everything we can to make sure this issue is addressed in X2's first official update.


thanks Bill.. thats the best we all can hope for so its really appreciated... anyway..the bug has been lurking around so it hardly qualifies for a "quickfix" anymore!.. :)

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Re:Sonar X1 and Maschine 1.6.2 (seth OR BILL-i know you are in here.....HELP ME DUDE) October 09, 12 10:04 AM (permalink)
If your lucky, they'll fix it in X3 and charge you for it. I'm STILL unable to Fastbounce timecode based plugins in X1. Emailed and called repeatedly as soon as Cakewalk Broke it in X1d (march). Did they care, they might have Tried to Pretend to, but NO. They LIED and said that an update was in the works. Turns out the update was an upgrade (much different monetarily) They left all of us hanging. I'm currently doing trial versions of the competitors and the Lucky DAW company will get my crossgrade $ Plus at least $1200 for a bigger interface. General consensus in doing business is that it is ALWAYS cheaper to hold on to the customers you have as opposed to having to find new ones. It could have been X2 upgrade and 2 octacaptures... Oh well.
post edited by Blogman - October 09, 12 10:21 AM
#58
Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk]
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Re:Sonar X1 and Maschine 1.6.2 (seth OR BILL-i know you are in here.....HELP ME DUDE) October 09, 12 3:04 PM (permalink)
Blogman

If your lucky, they'll fix it in X3 and charge you for it. I'm STILL unable to Fastbounce timecode based plugins in X1. Emailed and called repeatedly as soon as Cakewalk Broke it in X1d (march). Did they care, they might have Tried to Pretend to, but NO. They LIED and said that an update was in the works. Turns out the update was an upgrade (much different monetarily) They left all of us hanging. I'm currently doing trial versions of the competitors and the Lucky DAW company will get my crossgrade $ Plus at least $1200 for a bigger interface. General consensus in doing business is that it is ALWAYS cheaper to hold on to the customers you have as opposed to having to find new ones. It could have been X2 upgrade and 2 octacaptures... Oh well.
Hi Blogman, I keep reading posts from you about how you feel about our support (this post http://forum.cakewalk.com/fb.ashx?m=2685922 among many others). I think it is unfortunate considering that these guys work extremely hard. I will defend them till the end of time that they're very smart and hard-working individuals. If you think otherwise, maybe you had a unique poor experience? It just seems uncharacteristic because these guys are knowledgeable and have a lot of experience and are honestly doing the best they can. They're not random people we picked up off the street with no background. We're also a very small team and not some huge call center. We also don't charge for support. In fact, I have hundreds of emails from end users praising us for having a support team where people pull from their own knowledge and don't read off scripts to find solutions for what can sometimes be insanely complicated issues.

Anyhow, nobody is perfect and of course we get complaints. Sometimes they're warranted, and sometimes not. This is just the nature of any service related work ever. I've had people complain about me too which really bummed me out since I show up day to day making an honest best effort always. Sometimes I strike out occasionally with resolving issues and sometimes people just want to yell at someone, anyone. I'm sure there's plenty of knowledge you have that I don't and vice-versa.  I'm sure there are plenty of forum members with more knowledge then myself on a VARIETY of topics. I've learned quite a lot from the folks here as well. At the end of the day though, I would hope we could all treat each other as equals and with respect. We're all working in the same industry after all, and this shouldn't be a battle between the company and the end users. We should be working together.

The reason I'm writing you is I'm wondering are you perhaps misquoting us? Because it seems you are and that things are being taken out of context completely. Since you seem determined to call us out on lying repeatedly and publicly, I'd like to attempt to set the record straight and clear up the possible confusion here. 

I followed up months ago with one of our support reps asking him why he promised a fix to something that might not have happened. I was legitimately concerned about it myself since we were past development for SONAR X1 and our support reps never promise fixes for things unless they've already happened and are available for customers. The rep you worked with clarified for me that he did not promise any fixes regarding this Fast Bounce issue. He even sent me the email he had sent to you. Here's the exact quote:

From: [Removed]
Date: Mon, May 14, 2012 at 1:33 PM
Subject: Melodyne issue
To: [Removed]
Hey Michael,
Just wanted to give you a heads up - in talking with another Melodyne user having crashing based issues in SONAR Producer X1d, I stumbled on this forum thread:
http://www.celemony.com/userforum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=9316
You aren't getting these crashes from what I gather, however, I'm wondering if this resource leak could be a part of the issue.  Stay tuned, because it looks like an update is in the works.

--
Best Regards,
[Name Removed]
Product Support Specialist
1-888-CAKEWALK
http://www.cakewalk.com

It looks like he was referring to a crashing issue with Melodyne specifically... which was an update in the works from Celemony. This did end up happening, but it wasn't something on our end. So, how is this us lying to you? I don't understand. It's very possible I don't know the whole story, but based on all of the back and forth I can dig up on our end I don't think anybody lied to you. If you have information I don't have, please let me know. 


If you had a poor experience with a representative or something we're unaware of, perhaps we could take care of this appropriately by submitting a complaint via the proper channels?

Ryan Munnis
Cakewalk
#59
John
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Re:Sonar X1 and Maschine 1.6.2 (seth OR BILL-i know you are in here.....HELP ME DUDE) October 09, 12 3:52 PM (permalink)
Ryan I can testify to the quality of the support staff. I had a problem that was quickly cleared up by one call. But what was very remarkable was that I mentioned that my store account was to say the least mess up. He said he would take care of it and he did. He did as soon as I got off the phone. Now this may seem nothing much but keep in mind that I did not ask him to fix it he volunteered to and he did.

Its been that way with CW support as long as I have been a customer. I have never had anything but outstanding service from all the CW people I have every contacted. 



Best
John
#60
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