Sonar X2a Crashes DAW?

Hello. I am posting here because I am having a recurring problem with my DAW.
 
The problem I am having are repeated freezes of my DAW while running Sonar X2a. The freezes bring down the entire operating system; the computer no longer responds to mouse and keyboard input, and the only way I can regain control of the computer is to turn it off and restart it.  The freezes occur intermittently: sometimes everything goes fine; sometimes I have a crash.  These freezes ONLY occur when running Sonar X2; I don't have these freezes when using Sound Forge (ver. 10), or other audio software.
 
I built the DAW specifically to run Win 7 and Sonar X2. The computer has no other functions. The specs are as follows:
Processor – Intel i5 3570 quad core @ 3.40 gHz (normal clock – NOT overclocked)
MOBO – ASUS P8Z77-VLX w/ Intel Northbridge Z77 Express chipset
Memory - 2 x Corsair Vengence CMZ16GX3M2A1600C10B (2 modules of 8 GB apiece: total 16 GB), DDR3
Power - Corsair CMPSU-750TXV2, 750 watts
Firewire - StarTech.com 4 port PCI 1394a  firewire card
OS - Win 7 Home Premium 64 bit, SP-1
Cakewalk - Sonar X2a (build 351 - if I remember correctly) (I believe I have all the Sonar X2 updates)
Audio Interface – Mackie Onyx 1604 w/ firewire card installed (driver ver. 1.7 installed – is the only driver version Mackie makes for this device and this OS)
MIDI Interface – MOTU Micro Express USB midi interface (Motu “universal” driver installed – is the only driver version Motu makes for this device and this OS).
 
What I have done so far: First, I contacted CW Tech Support. Their response was that Sonar could not possible cause a crash/freeze of the entire OS, that this behavior must be due to a problem of one of the computer drivers. They did not respond when I asked them how I might further troubleshoot this problem. I then ran a test of the physical memory using Memtest+86 (ver. 5.01). I ran two full passes of the test, which took over three hours. Zero errors were reported (and I had no freezes of the computer).
 
I think my next diagnostic will be to download the Reaper demo, use it exclusively for a week and see if I have any freezes.  I suppose I could start swapping out memory modules, but because I never have this problem while using other software, and because of the successful Memtest, I'm thinking this is not a memory problem.
 
Can anyone suggest other step I can take to troubleshoot (or maybe resolve) this problem. 
 
Sorry for the long post.  Thanks for your help.  
 

hmm... uneducated guess but I'm thinking the culprit may be the Mackie. Everything else you listed seems pretty common amongst Sonar users except that interface. Might want to google for others having similar problems with that device.
 
Just a thought.

I have seen these kinds of errors before, and I can recall a couple of things to look at:
 
1.  Is Windows maintenance up to date?  If not, some folks have had bizarre things occur, due to some of the run-time executable routines from Microsoft being out of date.  The fix for those folks was to run Windows Update over and over until all updates were applied.
 
2.  Other folks have had SONARPDR (The name of Sonar when it is running in Windows) freeze up and not be able to be flushed from memory without a restart, caused by one or more badly behaving 32-bit plugins running with BitBridge (sometimes even with JBridge) in a 64-bit Sonar installation.  You can see if this is happening to you by either already knowing that some of a failing project's plugins are 32-bit, or when Sonar freezes look in Task Manager to see if BitBridge or JBridge is running.  If so, that means that you indeed have one or more 32-bit plugins running in 64-bit Sonar.  The fix for many of these folks was to go through a process of loading a failing project in Safe Mode, but only allowing 1 plugin at a time to load, then testing out the stability of the project until one causes failure.  Then they would swap out or just remove that plugin and continue on to testing the next one in the same manner, until all loaded plugins were verified as working, or were either replaced or removed.
 
3.  It is also possible that your install or execution may have some issues, due to privileges.  Sometimes, a Sonar download and/or install can be slightly hosed, if the Run As Administrator option is not explicitly set during install, and also sometimes during launch, sometimes depending on one or more of the plugins for the 2nd case.  IF you did not install Sonar with Run As Administrator set, you may need to completely remove the X2a install, including deleting hidden appdata and registry keys, and then install again with the explicit option of Run As Administrator.  This is a different thing than just using a user account that has admin privileges.
 
4.  Some other folks have had problems where the download/install/execution (any or all of those) was done while antivirus software was running.  Weird behavior and sometimes corrupted download files have been reported (I had those myself).  It is recommended that you temporarily suspend antivirus software when installing Sonar or its additional components, and as I have had download files corrupted as well, I further recommend that even for downloading, that antivirus software get suspended or temporarily exited.  Some antivirus software does not play nicely with Sonar downloads and/or installs.
 
I HOPE that one of the above applies and can lead to a solution for your troubles.
 
I believe that since there are not widespread reports of computers crashing all over the place like yours is, that it is some set of conditions local to your system or execution environment, and therefore can likely be diagnosed and resolved.
 
Please review the above and respond, 
 
Bob Bone

Hello.  Thank you everybody for your suggestions.  I will try to address the replies.
 
1)  I using the 64-bit version of Sonar.  Mostly I have been using the stock plugs that come bundled with Sonar (Cakewalk plugs, Sonitus plugs, BreVerb, etc), and I commonly use JamStix (which I highly reccommend).  JamStix is 64-bit, and I don't know about the stock plugs that come with Sonar.
 
The HD are Seagate ST500DM002 500 gb SATA drives (I have 2 of them).
 
The drivers for the audio and midi interfaces are both the newest - and only - drivers available for these devices.
 
Update to x3?  I only bought this upgrade to X2 last summer.  About a month later X3 came out.  Given that I had to pay $150 for the upgrade to X2, and that X2 has never worked properly for me, I cannot for the life of me imagine plunking down more money for what for me is currently questionable software.
 
(BTW - I've been a CW user since it was midi only.  After my CW midi-only Home Studio, I got Pro Audio, then Sonar 2, then Sonar 4, then Sonar 6, then Sonar 8.5, and now Sonar x2.  All worked without issues except for X2 - this I really distressing for me.)
 
Thanks Equality
 
2)  Another person suggested that the Mackie firewire product was very particular about which firewire interface card it plugs into.  I will see if I can find similar reports of problems on the Mackie web-site.
 
Thanks Beepster - good suggestion
 
3) Windows updates.  The current OS is Win 7 ver. 6.1.7601 sp1 (build 7601).  This computer is a dedicated DAW.  It has no connection to the internet.  So running Windows Update will do nothing for me.  If I am to update the OS, I have to figure out how to do it manually, and from a remote computer.  The Windows Event Viewer only shows WMI (ID 10) errors, which I understand to be a artifact of the SP1 upgrade, and reported by Microsoft to be insignificant. 
 
The midi and audio device are both using the newest - and only - drivers available for this OS.
 
This DAW has no graphics accelerator card in it.  I am using the graphics capabilities that are built into the processor.  I wondered if this could be a problem for me.  It would be relatively cheap and easy to add a graphics accelerator card.
 
Thanks Alex
 
4) Plug-ins.  The freezes sometimes occur when running a plug-in and sometimes occur when no plug-in is used in a project.  I cannot access Task Manager when the computer freezes because the freezes effects not just Sonar but Windows as well.  I am forced to hard-stop the computer and re-boot.
 
While I have used many previous versions of CW, this is the first version of Sonar on this computer (I built the computer, then did a fresh install of this new version of Sonar on it).  But it is highly likely that I did not Run As Administer when installing.  Re-installing is a PITA, but it is a good suggestion.
 
This is a dedicated DAW.  It has no connection to the internet, and I have no third party antivirus/firewall program on it.  So there is no possibility of an antivirus program getting in the way of the installation of Sonar.
 
Thanks Bob - good suggestions
 
Thanks everyone - keep those ideas coming!!
 
 

OK:
 
1.  There may well be problems from not running the install with Run As Administrator.  This has definitely caused some issues for some folks, in a myriad of environments, and also it sometimes does not cause any issues for some others.  Since you ARE having issues, I would most definitely consider a complete removal of X2, including deletion of its registry keys and hidden folders and such, followed by a fresh install with the explicit setting of the installer to Run As Administrator.  I further recommend that you always launch Sonar with Run As Administrator, because some plugins get a bit persnickety without the extra elevated privileges.
 
2.  For SURE, there are some Microsoft run-time executable routines that if not up to date, cause flaky weird errors and/or crashes.  This too could be an issue with your computer, as it is not connected to the internet.  Several folks, including me, spent a bit of time for at least a couple of threads in the last couple of months or so, where it ended up that getting these particular routines up to current maintenance levels made their weird and flaky errors go away.  For this reason, I would HIGHLY recommend that you find a way to at least temporarily hook this computer up to the web long enough to run Windows Update over and over until no more updates are left to apply.  You can then disconnect it again from the web, until some other weird and flaky issues crop up.
 
If doing step 2 makes your skin crawl, you could go through a process of using something like Dependency Walker to map out the various routines that Sonar accesses, and this would show the maintenance info for these particular run-time Microsoft routines.  Of course, if they are out of date, which may well be the case, they would still need to be brought up to date.
 
3.   I used to have $450 graphics cards (2 of them), but now just use the built in graphics, like you do.  I have ZERO problems running with the on-board graphics, and have two displays hooked up with no issues, so that should not be a problem on your system, either.
 
4.  It is possible that your X2 upgrade purchase within the approximate month of X3 coming out may qualify you for a free upgrade to X3 - CERTAINLY worth digging up your purchase date of the X2 upgrade and comparing it to when X3 came out.  I recall on at least a couple of occasions, Cakewalk looked things up for a couple of folks and ended up granting them upgrades to X3 at either no charge or some reduced rate.
 
5.  There is not a number 5 at this point, but based on your review and posting back per the above, perhaps I will leave room for one, in case we end up needing it.  :)
 
IF you decide to do a removal of the current X2 and a new install of it, please indicate that, and I will post back with a detailed list of steps to do so.  I will also block out time tonight and over the weekend to be available to assist you through whatever we can do to get this resolved for you.
 
Bob Bone
 

I'm with Alex and Bob on this one. I can't count how many updates have happened to Windows 7 just in the last few months, and I've had many issues related to graphics cards not having up-to-date drivers. Sonar is tied very deeply into the Windows OS and when drivers and the OS get out of sync, anything can happen.

Sure - I just typed these up last night for someone else, so I just copied the permalink to that post:
 
http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/2988375
 
In the above post, I typed in X2, but really meant X3.  The instructions work for either version - just substitute X2 or X3 as needed and you will be fine.  
 
I am not sure what your ISO downloads are for - are you not connecting the computer directly to the web, for updating Windows?  (if not, I have never done it that way, and can give you no guidance one way or another on whether or not that is a good thing to do or a potentially problematic way to do it).
 
I always connect directly to the web and run Windows Update for the computer needing the updates.
 
Bob Bone
 

Funny Window 7 normally has all those drivers? I haven't had that issue since XP. My solution in those days, was to use a PCI Network card that I had the drivers for. 
Did you check that you had not disabled the drivers in device manager?  
Did you try using another computer to download the drivers for your MoBo ? Looks like you have ASUS. 
 
https://www.asus.com/Moth..ards/P8Z77V_LX/#support

What I read on the Mackies is they seem to work real well with Locic and Pro Tools. Not much about them being used with Sonar other that reported issues and then the threads are never finished. 

I like my old Mackie board but they are not the first name I think of when I think of interfaces. Also not a fan of the whole firewire thing when USB is more than capable of handling most audio needs. We get soooo many complaints from firewire users on here it really does seem like a gamble. However those that do indeed get their FW stuff playing nice are indeed quite happy. There is some magical formula of cards, interfaces, drivers and settings that I personally wouldn't want to mess with. If I for some reason ever needed ultra mega connectivity (like if I was gonna start recording 40 channels at once or something) I'd probably go the PCIe route over FW.
 
I however am not a tech. Just going by what I read here and elsewhere in my travels. USB works fine in my humble little one man set up though so I'm happy.

Sorry I didn't realize you now have the TI card. That was not clear to me. Looks like you have tried everything. Just your other threads were never concluded. It is nice when you post an issue that you keep it updated until resolved. All issues must be resolved or some of us will not sleep at night... :) 

Beepster has some good advice.  A BIOS flash is something to be very careful with, but might be worth looking at doing, at this point, as a last resort to finding a new interface.
 
Bob Bone