Sonar & Fruity loops VST fx

If your recoridng, then you need to enable input echo so you can hear them. If not, then make sure the FX is active
Cj

No, dude.

I have tried. I also notice that most Cakewalk effects do not work in FL Studio. "Sonitux" effects work in FL, and perhaps better than they do in Sonar. Why? Well, you can use them on both Audio and MIDI. Where as in Sonar you can only use them on audio.

I think FL effects are, on the whole, better than Sonar's to be honest. Sonar has a lot of cool plugins, though; and Sonar is a better program for work with audio a traditional style recording. That said, if you're looking to make beats and Electronic music, FL Studio is better than Sonar, for sure ... especially with additional VST plugins from Sonar, for example.

I have never used "Sonitus fx" on audio in FL Studio ... "Never." Not one single time. ... Only on MIDI! Moreover, in FL Studio you can use any of their effects on either audio or midi; it makes no difference.

I find Sonar's MIDI effects to be just terrible... I end up bouncing my midi data into audio just so I can get some good effects. This is partly the reason why I find Sonar to be no good for making Electronic music or Hip-Hop/Rap beats. I just use Sonar's plugins in FL Studio for those styles of music.

Have you used FL Studio? I suggest that you download it, and then install the "Sonitus fx" in the program. If I am using these effects on audio generated by midi, then great. However, there are no waveforms present, and I have not recorded any audio. I use MIDI (and only midi) and then simply select which "Sonitus FX" I wish to use. Then apply... I usually use Sonitus Reverb, Delay or Equalizer.

It is not so simple in Sonar, where I must bounce tracks into audio before I even have access to "Sonitus FX."

Have you used FL Studio?

Of course I have. I've been using it for years. I wouldn't offer any advice about it unless I knew from first-hand experience what I was talking about.

The Sonitus FX are Audio only. Here's a link. You need to understand better how FLS works in terms of MIDI and then Audio FX. Sonitus FX are not MIDI FX.

-Susan

My point is that they work on MIDI data... Nothing more. Whether the program is manipulating MIDI directly, or the audio that is generated from that MIDI is of "absolutely" no consequence to me. All I know is that "I" make no additional efforts to use the effects on whatever I decide to use. The rest is superfluous pish-posh, as far as I'm concerned.

I'm not quite sure what is meant by "you have to insert the audio plugins on the *audio* track that's being fed by the synth." But your suggestion relating to external hardware still requires that one convert MIDI to audio in order to get access to Sonitus FX. That is not necessary in FL Studio, and that is my point.

ORIGINAL: bluecafe69

I'm not quite sure what is meant by "you have to insert the audio plugins on the *audio* track that's being fed by the synth." But your suggestion relating to external hardware still requires that one convert MIDI to audio in order to get access to Sonitus FX. That is not necessary in FL Studio, and that is my point.

I understand your point. But you're still ignoring the distinction - FL Studio's "channel" is the equivalent of a MIDI track in SONAR; FL Studio's "FX" slot is the equivalent of an audio track or bus in SONAR. In FL Studio, you're still dealing with the information separately - you just haven't realized it.

And I should also note - there's nothing wrong, specifically, with choosing not to notice the audio / MIDI distinction, if you work more quickly by viewing them as transparent; in fact, this is the intention of SONAR's instrument track - to make it more transparent and seamless to the user. But the underlying reality still exists, that MIDI and audio are two different things, and the Sonitus effects (as well as FL Studio's effects) operate on audio data, not MIDI.

So, to get back to the original poster's question (I already answered this in an earlier post, but it may have gotten buried): The effects that come with FL Studio are "keyed" to FL Studio only. That means that while they may (or may not) seem to be available in other hosts (like SONAR) as VST plugins, they will probably not work properly, and may in fact crash your system. However, the Image Line folks have made some of the more popular ones (like some of the filters and delays, as well as the vocoder and EQUO) available as a separate set of standalone VST plugins.

ORIGINAL: bluecafe69

1) I know what both MIDI and Audio are (although I would not have given such an elaborate explanation relating to audio). I really don't see your point, however. Purely academic or practical... was there a reason for this?

The reason was that you stated "I have never used "Sonitus fx" on audio in FL Studio ... "Never."" which is simply incorrect. You have, in fact, always used Sonitus FX on audio. The Sonitus effects are audio effects, and when you use them in FL Studio you are using them in the audio portion of the signal chain. And I point it out because there are many people who come to this forum for information, and if they find incorrect information that's only going to slow them down instead of helping them. It is absolutely practical, not just academic.

2) I compose music in MIDI in FL Studio, I then go to the mixer and insert effects. There is nothing that requires that I first convert my MIDI composition into Audio before the Sonitus FXs work (this is what this is all about).

There's nothing that requires that you convert your MIDI composition into audio in SONAR either - just insert the Sonitus effect on the *audio* track instead of the MIDI track (or, if you're using an instrument track, make sure to view the separate audio and MIDI portions of that instrument track; or output the instrument track to a bus and insert the Sonitus effect on the bus, etc.). You're ignoring the fact that SONAR can use the effects in real time on a bus (or on an audio track whose input source is the softsynth), just like FL Studio.

Therefore, in my opinion the effects work with use on MIDI. Whether the MIDI is converted to Audio at some point makes no differences because I (the user) have done nothing to cause this. It is simply an idiosyncratic quirk in FL Studio.

Again, incorrect. And again, I point it out because other people are going to read this and perhaps be confused by your misinformation. The Sonitus effects, quite simply, do not operate on MIDI. They operate on the audio created from that MIDI information. The fact that you think you "have done nothing to cause this" doesn't make it any less real. It's not a "quirk" of FL Studio - it's the fact that you're *choosing* not to make the distinction between the mixer and the instrument channels. And again, that's fine for you if it works for you - but try not to misinform other people.

3) I still think the use of these effects is easier in FL Studio, by far. I mean, there is no thought behind it... simply use when necessary.

Fantastic. And it's great that you've figured that out. Learning our own workflow and optimal productivity is extremely important. Just don't confuse other people by choosing to oversimplify it yourself.

Here's what I use FL Studio for. I use Sonar for mastering (sometimes): http://soundcloud.com/bernie-allen

I can do similar things in Sonar 8... However, the process is much more tricky.. Mostly because I must first convert MIDI to audio in order to get access the good effects in Sonar. Mind you, I only recently started using Sonar 8 (producer edition).

What you're saying for the most part is academic, and to me appears to be more of an excuse to argue. It has no barring on the way one would use Sonitux FX in FL Studio. I do no composing in audio in that (FL) program; I record nothing, and I do not even use a keyboard. See: http://soundcloud.com/bernie-allen

If the mixer, because of some quirk, converts what I have composed to audio in order to do its job, great. I have not done this on my own, and in the end it changes absolutely nothing. It has only made things easier for me.

The rest is blah-blah-blah. though, I will admit I need to learn Sonar better and you have made some things a little clearer. So thanks.

- Bernie

ORIGINAL: bluecafe69
What you're saying for the most part is academic, and to me appears to be more of an excuse to argue.

I would prefer not to have to argue in the first place - it's turning into a real waste of time. I'm really just trying to clarify a point that you, so far, have insisted on making fuzzy. I'm not trying to "convert" you or change the way you work - I'm simply attempting to be as accurate as possible, as you and I are not the only ones reading these posts.

It has no barring on the way one would use Sonitux FX in FL Studio.

I think you mean "bearing." (Not deliberately arguing here; just making sure I understand you.) And to answer that point, I would have to say "yes and no." It has no bearing on the way you use Sonitus FX in FL Studio, but it *might* affect the way someone else looks at it. As I've mentioned before (and I'm really repeating myself quite a lot now, because you refuse to acknowledge my point even though I've acknowledged yours), the Sonitus plugins are *not* operating on MIDI - you're just ignoring the fact that the "mixer" and "FX" parts of FL Studio are audio.

I do no composing in audio in that (FL) program; I record nothing, and I do not even use a keyboard. See: http://soundcloud.com/bernie-allen

You *hear* audio, right? Audio comes out of your speakers, or headphones, or whatever else you might listen through, right? When was the last time you "heard" MIDI? If you've ever specifically listened to someone say the words, "Note On, Number 62, Velocity 74, duration 479 ticks; Controller 7, Value 48" then I would say you've "heard" MIDI; otherwise, you're hearing the audio created from your MIDI information. If you want to call it academic, go right ahead. But it has practical real-world implications. Maybe not for you; maybe not yet. But for the rest of us - and for other people who will read this thread - it's more than just theory.

If the mixer, because of some quirk, converts what I have composed to audio in order to do its job, great. I have not done this on my own, and in the end it changes absolutely nothing. It has only made things easier for me.

Not a quirk - a deliberate and necessary design, based on the reality that MIDI is only a way of communicating musical information, and is not actually the audio that we hear. Of course you haven't done it on your own - that's the whole reason for using a DAW host like FL Studio or SONAR or Logic or GarageBand or ProTools or Reaper or whatever else you can think of. They do the work of taking our notes and expressions (MIDI) and converting it to sound for us (audio). It's *supposed* to make things easier for you. But it doesn't make the Sonitus FX plugins MIDI plugins. They're not MIDI plugins. They never have been MIDI plugins. They don't change the MIDI information; they process the *audio*. If you want an example of a MIDI plugin, look at the Quantize MFX plugin that you can insert on a MIDI track in SONAR - it will change the MIDI information before it even hits the synth. That's not what Sonitus does.

The rest is blah-blah-blah.

I'm sorry you think it's "blah-blah-blah." That's fairly insulting, actually, after someone has had the respect to try and explain their viewpoint to you through a constructive dialogue. And your disrespectful tone will affect the way others on this forum choose to help you (or not help you) when you have a question. That's not a threat; it's just the reality of an online community.

though, I will admit I need to learn Sonar better and you have made some things a little clearer. So thanks.

Fair enough. You're welcome.

Good on ya, bro. Keep on writing... I have heard what you said. Sonitux is for audio, and FL converts MIDI to audio via the mixing board. Is that your point?? If so, then why is it you think I haven't heard you?

My point ... "Who gives a ****?" It doesn't change anything. Just use the effects on whatever the hell you want in FL Studio. There is no need to be conscious of it. MIDI and Audio are all the same in that program. Must I repeat myself? Or is what I'm saying too complicated for the readers, here. You must think people are so stupid.

I find you a little hypocritical, oh-wise-one.

ORIGINAL: bluecafe69
Good on ya, bro. Keep on writing... I have heard what you said. Sonitux is for audio, and FL converts MIDI to audio via the mixing board. Is that your point?? If so, then why is it you think I haven't heard you?

Because until *this* post, you didn't actually show any evidence whatsoever of understanding my point - you only argued that you "have never used "Sonitus fx" on audio in FL Studio" - and then accused *me* of being argumentative.

My point ... "Who gives a ****?"

Obviously, I do. Because for me, I can work faster, with fewer obstacles to creativity, by understanding what I tried to explain to you. I didn't try to make you work differently; I only tried to correct misinformation. But apparently you don't care about anything that doesn't immediately affect your own workflow. Again, you'll find that that attitude won't get you very far long-term. If you're the next Mozart, or Timbaland, or Beck, or BT, and you can afford to be arrogant because you're so incredibly brilliant, fine. More power to you. But you made a statement in this thread that was contrary to actual fact, and when I offered clarification, you argued.

It doesn't change anything. Just use the effects on whatever the hell you want in FL Studio. There is no need to be conscious of it. MIDI and Audio are all the same in that program. Must I repeat myself? Or is what I'm saying too complicated for the readers, here. You must think people are so stupid.

No, I think people are capable of understanding more than the idea that "MIDI and Audio are all the same in that program." I explain things because I think people *aren't* stupid, and that many of us have greater potential than what we're given credit for. And MIDI and Audio are NOT all the same in FL Studio - they are just integrated and interrelated in a way that makes it easy to ignore the distinction, as you're doing. Obviously it's an elegant design in that regard, and obviously very useful to you as well. But it doesn't make them the same.

I find you a little hypocritical, oh-wise-one.

That's unfortunate. I apologise if I was offensive. It was not my intent to turn this into a lecture or a fight. In my first contribution to this thread, I corrected an inaccurate statement about the Sonitus plugins. Beyond that, I have only responded to repeated refusals to accept reality, and if I am vehement in my language it is because the whole thing has gotten extremely frustrating.

ORIGINAL: bluecafe69
What I am doing now is recording a guitar track into audacity without accompaniment. Why? Because I want to learn to use the Audiosnap feature in Sonar to align my guitar and drums without having to play them in time. In other words, my post in the other thread relates to a learning exercise. But apparently you're too stupid to realize that.

How on earth did you expect anyone to know that you were doing it as a learning exercise? Telepathy? And then you call people stupid for offering suggestions that they thought might be useful to you?

Go ****, yourself.

Yeah, that's real mature.


Let's wrap up this way: You don't want to know that FL Studio handles MIDI and Audio separately, in separate parts of the program. Fine. You don't want to know that the Sonitus plugins operate on audio, not MIDI, because thinking about it gets in the way of your flow. Fine. But don't think that you're going to argue false points and not meet with a contrary response from someone - and certainly don't start insulting people.

I've nothing more to say about it, unless you feel like adjusting your attitude.