CAW
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Sonar dissed once again
Just got my December 05 copy of Recording Magazine and they have an article called "Why is my DAW My DAW" where they interview contributing writers and ask them to talk about their personal DAW's and why they chose them. The DAWs Represented are: Digidesign Pro Tools(not once but three times), Cubase (not once but twice) Nuendo, Digital Performer, and Ableton Live with Acid Pro. Eight contributing writers of Recording and not a single one using Sonar.
post edited by CAW - 2005/11/20 14:26:48
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Salsamac
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RE: Sonar dissed once again
2005/11/20 14:32:44
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tonester
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RE: Sonar dissed once again
2005/11/20 14:39:29
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To be honest, I never knew Recording magazine to be a big fan of any Cakewalk products. You'd be hard pressed to find a review, let alone an advertisement. That's why I cancelled my subscription. Who needs 'em! Long live Sound-On-Sound. Tony www.livesayrox.com
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Dale Aston
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RE: Sonar dissed once again
2005/11/20 14:44:22
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Advertising bucks speak loudly.
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jpkeys
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RE: Sonar dissed once again
2005/11/20 14:48:59
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The Scar
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RE: Sonar dissed once again
2005/11/20 14:49:37
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Logic is notably missing, too.
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Gerry
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RE: Sonar dissed once again
2005/11/20 14:51:38
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I get Future Music every month and nothing will ever shift Ableton Live off the top of their charts and I mean nothing. Now either it is the dogs balls they say it is or I'm missing something. Wouldn't swap it or anything else for my S5. The FM Charts are based on their own reviews and the best they have looked at over the last 18 Months. Here is their November Best Sequencer Chart:- 01 - Ableton Live 5 02 - Apple Logic Pro 7.1 03 - Pro-Tools M-Powered 04 - Cakewalk Sonar 4 Producer = Steinberg Cubase SX3 06 - Samplitude V7.2 07 - Motu Digital Performer 4.1 08 - Making Waves You can make your own minds up on their chart but I would be interested in your opinions. Oh and I'm with Dale LOL Gerry
post edited by Gerry - 2005/11/20 14:52:17
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jamsession39
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RE: Sonar dissed once again
2005/11/20 15:18:33
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ORIGINAL: tonester
To be honest, I never knew Recording magazine to be a big fan of any Cakewalk products. You'd be hard pressed to find a review, let alone an advertisement.
That's why I cancelled my subscription. Who needs 'em! Long live Sound-On-Sound.
Tony
www.livesayrox.com
The ongoing consolidation and aquisitions by larger companies, in the industry, probably isn't helping much either. Avid now effectively owns Digidesign, M-Audio, and Pinnacle Systems. Pinnacle Sytems bought Steinberg in 2003 so in actuality, Avid now owns Steinberg. Pro Tools and Cubase/Nuendo are effectively owned by the same company. Sonar has been getting pretty cutting edge with a little help from their friends at Roland. I sense a real interest in Sonar 5. I was talking to a complete newbie in a music store the other day and a store salesperson was really hyping Cubase, especially for Mac. I talked to the guy and told him how great Sonar 5 was, and he seemed to have already done some homework on it and was leaning towards Sonar. Recording magazines and ill informed sales people don't seem to be effecting whether or not the word is getting out. The internet has taken care of that.
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Razz
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RE: Sonar dissed once again
2005/11/20 15:27:08
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bah.. Recording magazine is a great magazine. I've not been up on the last 5 issues or so I let my subscription run out. But even up until my last issue It seems they are heavily focused still on hardware. so I wouldn't put too much behind it. Recording magazine is a great read to extract recording concepts/methods and detailed information on technical aspects of sound. Recording it, processing it, mixing it, and mastering it. And a user worth their salt can transfer this info to the sonar work environment. But don't look to recording magazine to help you pick a daw. or you'll find your self purchasing pro- tools..
post edited by Razz - 2005/11/20 15:33:54
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xylyx
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RE: Sonar dissed once again
2005/11/20 15:46:00
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ORIGINAL: jamsession39
Pinnacle Sytems bought Steinberg in 2003 so in actuality, Avid now owns Steinberg. Pro Tools and Cubase/Nuendo are effectively owned by the same company. Your information is a little outdated...Pinnacle sold Steinberg to Yamaha a while back.
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GypsyJazz
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RE: Sonar dissed once again
2005/11/20 16:28:04
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ORIGINAL: jamsession39
..... Avid now owns Steinberg. I think you'll find that Yamaha actually own Steinberg now. EDIT: DAMN! I should always read through the complete thread before posting. 
post edited by GypsyJazz - 2005/11/20 16:29:23
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Guest
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RE: Sonar dissed once again
2005/11/20 17:06:17
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03 - Pro-Tools M-Powered
04 - Cakewalk Sonar 4 Producer i could see this ranking on audio perhaps .. but based on sequencing? this ranking makes no sense. jeff
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daddyfrank
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RE: Sonar dissed once again
2005/11/20 19:20:32
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That magazine is kind of a joke -- I thought it was kind of funny when one of the editors was using the magazine to hype one of his own products (an ear training program).
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thunderkyss
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RE: Sonar dissed once again
2005/11/20 19:29:45
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ORIGINAL: Gerry
I get Future Music every month and nothing will ever shift Ableton Live off the top of their charts and I mean nothing. Now either it is the dogs balls they say it is or I'm missing something. Wouldn't swap it or anything else for my S5.
The FM Charts are based on their own reviews and the best they have looked at over the last 18 Months. Here is their November Best Sequencer Chart:-
01 - Ableton Live 5
02 - Apple Logic Pro 7.1
03 - Pro-Tools M-Powered
04 - Cakewalk Sonar 4 Producer
= Steinberg Cubase SX3
06 - Samplitude V7.2
07 - Motu Digital Performer 4.1
08 - Making Waves
You can make your own minds up on their chart but I would be interested in your opinions. Oh and I'm with Dale LOL
Gerry
You've got to ask them what criteria are they basing this "ranking" on. Live use, DJ mixing, matching.....easy to use..that's the only way I can see Ableton being on top. I can't think of any real system that would rank Ableton, and PT M Powered above DP & Samplitude, much less Sonar.........then SX, and Nuendo doesn't even make the list........Traktion isn't there?? They've gotta be ranking based on advertising dollars for it to make any kind of sense.
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jamsession39
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RE: Sonar dissed once again
2005/11/20 19:54:46
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ORIGINAL: xylyx
ORIGINAL: jamsession39
Pinnacle Sytems bought Steinberg in 2003 so in actuality, Avid now owns Steinberg. Pro Tools and Cubase/Nuendo are effectively owned by the same company.
Your information is a little outdated...Pinnacle sold Steinberg to Yamaha a while back.
Oops my bad  . That's true. Well, bigger fish snapping up software companies is still true.
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jlgrimes
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RE: Sonar dissed once again
2005/11/20 20:11:58
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01 - Ableton Live 5
02 - Apple Logic Pro 7.1
03 - Pro-Tools M-Powered
04 - Cakewalk Sonar 4 Producer
= Steinberg Cubase SX3
06 - Samplitude V7.2
07 - Motu Digital Performer 4.1
08 - Making Waves
That is probably just a popularity contest. I thought Motu deserved better and M Powered Pro tools deserved worse. Matter of fact how is Ableton #1? They have a lot of innovative features that a lot of the classic sequencers don't think about, but at the same time Abelton is missing a few serious features. Abelton probably is the #1 software for actual "Live" use in a club or concert but I don't think it is the best for Studio use. But then again I hear how its audio engine is glitch free. I guess that says a lot these days.
post edited by jlgrimes - 2005/11/21 18:34:55
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davidchristopher
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RE: Sonar dissed once again
2005/11/20 23:03:19
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EDIT: Sorry. my post repeated another user. I got trigger happy myself.
post edited by davidchristopher - 2005/11/20 23:05:08
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Razz
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RE: Sonar dissed once again
2005/11/20 23:17:19
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In fairness to Recording Magazine they have done cakewalk reviews in the past and generally speaking the reviews have always been positive. Especially the Sonar 3 review in "Vol Seventeen Number twelve september 2004 edition." by Bill Stunt.
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xabiton
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RE: Sonar dissed once again
2005/11/21 00:03:54
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how is that a Sonar diss tho? Im new to Sonar myself and I have used all of those programs mentioned except DP and to be honest they arent bad programs. I didnt like Pro Tools but I loved Acid Pro. Cubase wasnt too bad either. Sonar is just a sleeper out there Ill even admit to sleeping on it the only reason I bought it was kuz I wanted a rewire host and I was very impressed when I got into it tho Ive only had it for a week
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eric_peterson
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RE: Sonar dissed once again
2005/11/21 10:19:53
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That magazine is kind of a joke -- I thought it was kind of funny when one of the editors was using the magazine to hype one of his own products (an ear training program). I'm guessing that most of the audio rags have a fairly small readership. To me, the product reviews read more like manufacturer's advertisements. They are afraid to say anything too negative for fear of losing much needed advertising revenue. I don't put a lot of weight on them. I tend to focus more on the tips/tricks, techniques sections.
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tomhan
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RE: Sonar dissed once again
2005/11/21 13:02:22
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I think one of the reasons is that Sonar is still viewed as kind of a toy app in the pro-audio world. It's an unfair assessment no doubt but maybe it's because the majority of cakewalks customer base surrounds the home studio as opposed to commercial enterprizes. I personally use Samplitude for the majority of my higher end audio work even though Sonar offers a vastly more flexible mixing environment. For the most part, sonar is viewed as a writing/composing tool rather than a recording/editing tool. That in and of it'self make it more attractive to the home based studio. Also, Pro-tools has established such a name for it'self that most wealty clients assume that you must have an $80,000.00 setup to get true high end sonic results. Of coarse, we all know better but that's just the way the music world works. It is very similar to the analog days when the smaller studios with Tascam recorders and mixing consoles were dissed in comparison to Studer recorders and SSL consoles. It's just the nitch that Cakewalk has carved out. I wouldn't get discouraged by all that. You have a gold mine setting on your desktop with far greater bang for the buck than Pro Tools could ever hope to provide. Look at all the incredible things you can accomplish for a minimum investment. Those features and function would have cost you $100,000.00 just 15 or 20 years ago. Amazing isn't it? Also, Pro Tools doesn't offer half of the functionality that Sonar does, even though it can cost 20 times more than Sonar.
To have peace, teach peace.
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underblu
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RE: Sonar dissed once again
2005/11/21 15:20:32
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My Ratings:
1. Sonar5PE Sonar's got V vocals and the others don't. Better than autotune and comprable to Melodyne
2. Ableton Live 5, the ultimate grove box workstation. if you work primarily with a lot of loops this is your tool.
3. Cubase In a lot of ways similar to Sonar both have strenghts, Cubase GUI seems a little more convoluted.
4. Motu DP5: As always very elegant GUI and work flow but maybe showing its age feature wise MAC Only.
5. Protools a lot more expensive rstrictive hardware requirements but the "choice of professionals" and a lot of sheep.
6. Logic 7. Frankly imo a company that abandons half its user base like true sc*m bags doesn't deserve consideration.
The only person that has attempted to do more than Bill Gates to stifle inovation of the personal computer is Steve Jobs.
At least Buffalo Bill doesn't want to tell you whose hardware to buy.
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kb420
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RE: Sonar dissed once again
2005/11/21 16:46:05
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ORIGINAL: Gerry
I get Future Music every month and nothing will ever shift Ableton Live off the top of their charts and I mean nothing. Now either it is the dogs balls they say it is or I'm missing something. Wouldn't swap it or anything else for my S5.
The FM Charts are based on their own reviews and the best they have looked at over the last 18 Months. Here is their November Best Sequencer Chart:-
01 - Ableton Live 5
02 - Apple Logic Pro 7.1
03 - Pro-Tools M-Powered
04 - Cakewalk Sonar 4 Producer
= Steinberg Cubase SX3
06 - Samplitude V7.2
07 - Motu Digital Performer 4.1
08 - Making Waves
You can make your own minds up on their chart but I would be interested in your opinions. Oh and I'm with Dale LOL
Gerry
If this is truly a best "sequencer" list, then I don't understand how PT M is above Sonar. Does anyone really use PT as a midi sequencer? I went to a PT LE (M-Box) presentation at Guitar Center in Cherry Hill New Jersey earlier this year and the representative from Digidesign focused strictly on using PT as a midi sequencer. He went out of his way to show that you can sequence midi in PT because, it was his opinion that PT is overlooked as a midi sequencer. I really wasn't thoroughly impressed with PT as a midi sequencer. It will get the job done, but I don't think that midi sequencing is one of it's strong points. As a matter of fact, the only thing that I was truly impressed with in PT was a plug-in that he used called "Smack". It is a compression plug-in. When the presentation was over I went to the counter to find out how much that plug-in costs.................. $400 And it only works on PT. http://www.digidesign.com/products/details.cfm?product_id=4461 Pro Tools and Digidesign are "wealthy musician only" clubs. I think I'll stick with Cakewalk. Even if I one day make it big, I'm sticking with Cakewalk!
post edited by kb420 - 2005/11/21 16:47:37
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Platano
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RE: Sonar dissed once again
2005/11/21 17:35:01
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Yes, it's about advertising dollars, make no mistake about that. The software listed as being on top might actually be catering to those who want to use that technology to make music, but not necessarily that they play (or have to play) a single instrument themselves. Yes, there are people making a lucrative living making music or sound, and that do not actually play an instrument themselves (the technology and the toys become the instruments).
Understanding that that is a huge market these days, and those that use technology along with playing one or more instruments just have different needs... I miss my Voyetra Digital Orchestrator for the MIDI, but I love my Sonar! Just my dos centavos... Joe
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jlgrimes
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RE: Sonar dissed once again
2005/11/21 18:45:20
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If this is truly a best "sequencer" list, then I don't understand how PT M is above Sonar. Does anyone really use PT as a midi sequencer? Yes they actually do. I've seen sequences made with it. And to be fair Pro Tools does have Auto Quantize. That is about it on the midi side of things. All of the other midi functions I'd think Sonar would Crush Pro Tools. Having used Pro Tools LE for audio I'll have to admit it has an almost excellent workflow for actually editing audio that is hard to compare with other DAWs. Maybe those guys did give their honest impression on the software. (Not saying I agree with it). It is all depending on what they are expecting a DAW to do (every user has different expectations). Still don't understand why Live got #1. I tried the demo and the program didn't seem too intuitive.
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thunderkyss
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RE: Sonar dissed once again
2005/11/21 20:12:45
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ORIGINAL: tomhan
I think one of the reasons is that Sonar is still viewed as kind of a toy app in the pro-audio world. It's an unfair assessment no doubt but maybe it's because the majority of cakewalks customer base surrounds the home studio as opposed to commercial enterprizes. I personally use Samplitude for the majority of my higher end audio work even though Sonar offers a vastly more flexible mixing environment. For the most part, sonar is viewed as a writing/composing tool rather than a recording/editing tool. That in and of it'self make it more attractive to the home based studio.
The issue at hand, is that Abbleton Live is #1. Samplitude isn't even on the list.......
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tomhan
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RE: Sonar dissed once again
2005/11/21 23:23:20
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ORIGINAL: thunderkyss
ORIGINAL: tomhan
I think one of the reasons is that Sonar is still viewed as kind of a toy app in the pro-audio world. It's an unfair assessment no doubt but maybe it's because the majority of cakewalks customer base surrounds the home studio as opposed to commercial enterprizes. I personally use Samplitude for the majority of my higher end audio work even though Sonar offers a vastly more flexible mixing environment. For the most part, sonar is viewed as a writing/composing tool rather than a recording/editing tool. That in and of it'self make it more attractive to the home based studio.
The issue at hand, is that Abbleton Live is #1. Samplitude isn't even on the list.......
Sorry, I wasn't clear enough. I was referring to the original post where it was noted that none of the contributing writers were Sonar users. My response was to convey my opinions as to why they were not Sonars users. My referrance to Samplitude was to illustrate that I also do not use Sonar anymore as an audio recorder/editor/mixer (although I'm seriously considering taking another stab at it). Sonar is an outstanding composition tool IMHO. Still, the pro-audio market doesn't take it seriously.
To have peace, teach peace.
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AnthonyRoss
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RE: Sonar dissed once again
2005/11/21 23:30:14
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i've made my switch to ableton and i just purchased S5 not 4 weeks ago. i'm sorry but for what i'm doing ableton fits my needs better. i was a long time sonar user too
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Razz
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RE: Sonar dissed once again
2005/11/21 23:39:40
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Still, the pro-audio market doesn't take it seriously. I think that says more about the pro-audio market than about sonar IMO
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Steve Mac
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RE: Sonar dissed once again
2005/11/21 23:52:16
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To be honest, I never knew Recording magazine to be a big fan of any Cakewalk products. You'd be hard pressed to find a review, let alone an advertisement.
That's why I cancelled my subscription. Who needs 'em! Long live Sound-On-Sound. Damn right. Sound-on-Sound is far and away the best music hardware/software magazine, even if a little pricey due to its British roots. After discovering it I did not review most of my other magazines (Recording, Keyboard), though I might keep EM and/or EQ. And there is something about those Brits and their magazines. I got tired of Rolling Stone Ragazine's constant, knee-jerk, ridiculous (and tired) diatribes about the Bush Administration (and the endless advertisements), along with little in the way of actual music journalism. Then I discovered the British MOJO magazine just in time. Fantastic for reviews of music, and nothing but. Highly recommended. So let the readers of Recording magazine suffer for their ignorance!!! <G> We know better.
Steve McNamara ~~ SignatureTunes Studios~~ SoundClick avatar courtesy of my son
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