Sonar video sync issue

Hello folks, I'm having an issue involving Sonar with certain video file types. I compose for film and tv and receive various types of video files to work with. The most popular format these days sent around to composers in post production is MP4 or H.264. > Good quality and smaller file size. 
 
The issue is that my final cues that are in sync with the video inside of sonar, shift after they are exported. (by about 2.5 frames)
Even a broadcast wave file. This doesn't seem to happen when using WMV or AVI files (but nobody really uses those file types in tv post prod. and converting them is not an option for my work flow)
 
So, if I export a music cue from sonar and check it against picture in another program like Sony Vegas for instance, the cue is off by 2.5 frames. 
 
I still use Sonar X1d currently but I read that the newer versions (after X3e) now have better video support and don't use the direct show engine etc. I started a demo of Sonar platinum last night but the same issue persists! (I was able to test this by bouncing a clip internally and grabbing it from the audio folder to test it, as the demo won't allow any exporting) > The file was slightly less out-of-sync but still off by almost 2 frames.
 
The only reason I can think of at this point, is whatever codec is running when I'm working with MP4s. I think I'm using LAV video encoders. I'm wondering if that could be the issue? Although, if I did the same test using only Sony vegas I wouldn't get the issue, which still points to Sonar... 
 
Anyone have any thoughts on this? Codec? Sonar? 
 
Thanks!
JG
 
 

Thanks! I think I had kLite at one time, always tricky to find the right codec pack. I think I have the shark 007 codec pack currently. I'll look more into it. But, to you it sounds like a codec issue? I think sonar's sync is sample accurate across the board, I feel like this issue is related to how the video file gets imported and how the visual time code relates to the project.
 
Thanks for the reply.
JG

How do you mean "shift" after exporting?  Does it start in sync and by the end be off by 2.5 frames?
 
One trick to try.  i send my music to the client or mixer(who is using Protools 99% of the time) in an OMF file.   So I...
1)  "save as"  a new file
2) "Bounce to Tracks" a stereo mix,  then 5-6 stems. Depending on what the mixer asks for.
3)  Delete all the midi and raw audio tracks...everything but the mix and stems.
4)  Remove silence (I create my own setting for this with a -89db threshold so i do not miss any soft intros or exits.
5)  Export the OMF.
 
If i have properly put in the SYMPTE offset and have the correct frame rate in >Preferences>Clock, the OMF drops into perfect place.  I get nothing but compliments on how all my cues or OMF files sync up.    

Thanks for the replies!
I'm sure it's not a frame rate issue or any user related thing. I'm suspecting the codec or even possibly Sony Vegas which is what I'm using to test the problem. The video FR is at 23.97 and others tested were at 29.97 ND. I have an offset in sonar's clock settings and have it set to export any waves with the offset. 
 
Another strange thing is that when I insert the video into Sonar, the first frame of video which displays a visual time code of let's say: 00:59:58:00, will show up in Sonar as 00:59:58:01. And that 1 frame isn't consistent with the 2.5 frames that it's off by.
 
 
Anyhow, I've sent some test files to a colleague to test for me, if everything is fine then it has something to do with Sony Vegas. I'll report back with the result.
Thanks again!
JG
   

How are you doing your test?   What is 2.5 frames late? How do you determine that?
 
 

Hey markyzno,
Still trying to get to the bottom of the Sonar/ mp4/quick time sync issue. I've posted a new thread on it here:
http://forum.cakewalk.com/Sonar-with-QuickTime-MP4-or-H264-not-functioning-correctly-still-m3261535.aspx#3261535 
 
You are using Sonar for sound design so I thought I'd ask you to look at it. I've asked if someone could try a small test, exporting audio out of Sonar from an mp4 on the time line. Bring it back into another program and check the sync. I've tried with every scenario I can think of, different machines etc. same result. Anyhow, trying to figure it out.
Cheers!
JG

I've thought about plug in latency and sound card latency but the tests I've done don't have any plugs or synths loaded. i do have jbridge on some things but not in the test sessions. I've done tests on my sons computer that has no sound card or audio apps at all..same result. My issue is with sonar files that are running any quick time, mp4 or h.264 video. There is no issue with AVI or WMV and especially not just audio with no video, all that syncs up perfectly..
 
Someone suggested that lossy files like mp4s get padded, adding a short top and tail to the video. Looking into that one. 
Cheers!
JG