SonarX2 / Kontakt5 Output Assignments Issue

I've been a NI Kontakt user for years and understand the principle of multiple outputs from Kontakt and the inserting the vst with multiple outputs for tracks.  I've set up track templates and project templates for fast implementation.  Although, I just now started experiencing this issue. I've contact Cakewalk about it and they feel it's a Kontackt output issue.  I've created a screencast of the process to better understand the issue. The process I go through is to insert the Kontak5 vst (64bit) I select all synth audio out stereo and get an instance of Kontkt5 with all the appropriate outputs in the tracks. You'll see that when I add the outputs with in Kontakt they are not fulling assigning to the track outputs. They are assigned properly from outputs/tracks 1-5 but, starting with 6 they get mixed up with outputs 7 & 8 and upward. Rendering the higher outputs unusable.  I've re-installed the latest version of Kontakt5 5.0.3 and still have the issue.  Any thoughts or help would be appreciated. I'm pressed for time for large orchestral trailer project.  Thank you.  Link to Screencast: http://youtu.be/rLmskrQgEa8

I have been a long-time NI user and have Kontakt 5 currently running -x64.

I use multiple instruments in Kontakt all the time, but I reset all of the output channels using that batch function to clear the output section and recreate channels with 1 stereo channel for each loaded instrument.

I then rename them to match easy to read output channel names, like PIano, Bass, Organ, etc.  That makes for easier reading at a glance for me back in the assignments in the console.

Also, when I insert Kontakt 5 into the rack, I do NOT tall Sonar to create tracks for all of the outputs supported by K 5.

Instead, I manually insert 1 pair or tracks for each loaded instrument, 1 audio and 1 midi, so that they are ordered like:

T1 - Audio
T2 - Midi

T3 - Audio
T4 - Midi

And then each is paired appropriately associated with each of the instruments.  I do it this way because I like to that kind of order.

The process would certainly be quicker if I just told it to do it on insert of K 5, but it's really not a big deal to do time-wise.

In addition, everything is nicely named for me, which helps out a lot, and doing the above is a one-time deal per project.

I NEVER have problems with any outputs getting mixed up, or accidentally leave a bunch of unused tracks that got inserted just because the instrument supports having them.

Give it a try - I think you will find it a reasonable outcome for a reasonable amount of time, with zero problems stemming from doing it that way.

Bob Bone

Yeah, I went that route long ago, and then just chose to switch to what I outlined above - doing it the way you provided, you still then have to back to each instrument and reassign each output, as by default they all get set to ST 1.  In addition, you then have to go delete whatever unused tracks it created for instruments you didn't load.

I found myself making too many mistakes the other way, by usually having forgotten to change one or more instrument outputs, so that multiple instruments were routed to ST 1.

Anyway- personal preference.

Bob Bone

Bob Bone is correct.  :)

Yeah - I just watched some more of your video, where you are adding channels and all of that nonsense.

I would have finished my recording session by the time you finished all of that.

Just throw a 2nd Kontakt 5 into the rack, do the batch reset/create on the output channels and be done with it.

All of your track assignments would just work - EVERY TIME.

Bob Bone

Mystic, I am not at all sure why you think I had issue with you or anything you have posted about Kontakt.

Ah - I think you meant by my reference to 'all that nonsense' - I certainly did not mean it as such - I did not mean anything untoward you or your post at all.

I just was trying to end that sentence without re-explaining all of those steps - I was just meaning for the time it took to do all that.

Your post was SPOT ON for the SAME set of steps I had gone through long ways back, when I was working through the same set of issues.  It's been quite a bit on that and my memory was a bit hazy on what I had attempted in trying to deal with that.

What I was trying to say was that having to do all of that is just a lot more work than just loading up a 2nd instance of K 5 and using the batch function to create the outputs for each instrument, and it's MUCH faster to just do that.

I PROFUSELY apologize to you for any slight - I think the world of your posts.  I greatly appreciated you jumping into the thread and taking the time to list all of that out.  Your logic was quite sound - it was the same thought path that I reasoned out.  

I just took it in a different direction - to avoid that whole thing, by just working within whatever bugs or limitations are within K 5 to as efficiently as possible have as bulletproof a methodology to getting access to the number of instruments I needed access to through using Kontakt 5 in Sonar.

OK?

Bob Bone

Thanks Ken.  

I'll try that.  

Bob Bone:  I generally don't use more than 4 instruments and 4 outputs for in Kontakt.  However, I'm working on a huge orchestral score and I love the Track Templates and Project Templates in Sonar.  X1 & X2.  I've been using them for quite sometime now.  You are right.  It's very time consuming to set it all up.  Hence, me setting up the large orchestral project templates.  When I do so, I also, create track templates of all the instances i.e. woodwinds, brass, strings, percussion so I can pull those up when I need them.  But, even those templates had been altered with the output assign issue.  

It would just be nice to have the outputs working properly.  Hopefully, Kens suggestion will get me there.  

Thanks everyone.  

I don't trust that kind of "It fixed itself" kind of voodoo thing.

If that works and keeps working, cool.

For myself, I found that just using the 2nd instance avoids even having to worry about it in the first place.

Glad you got moving forward again - however it happened :)

Bob Bone

I do agree - I think Mystic's steps DO work - and again didn't mean to imply that they didn't.  I found that for my pea-sized noggin that remembering to limit to 5 per instance was just easier on my sanity.

At least there are a couple of ways of doing this, versus none, so we got THAT going for us - hee hee.

Bob Bone

I'm just happy you are able to move forward with your project.

We want you to be as happy when you are recording as you are in that profile picture from 20 years ago.  :)

Bob Bone

Curtsong,
 
I've seen this in Kontakt for ages - in ver 4 and ver 5 (the only ones I've ever had). I found that if you just ignore the screwy labels that SONAR is reporting for the Kontakt outputs - and *use them anyway* - they actually work fine.
 
I think it's just a problem with SONAR picking up Kontakt's outputs and naming them. I guess the Kontakt aux outs do have something to do with this - and I don't disagree with what the other guys are saying - but for me, I just ignore the screwed up labels, count down the list to where ie output 7 (stereo) *should be* - and use that one.
 
I set up a template to use 16 outputs (8 stereo instruments in Kontakt and this is the one I use all the time) and another one for 32 outputs (16 stereo Kontakt instruments). I used the screwy labeled outputs, and they always work fine. 
 
Just my £0.02 (= $0.03)

Hi Ian,
 
Well, you're doing it the intelligent way
 
I was just saying that if you ignore the dodgy labels, (the lazy way) it still works fine. I'll try doing it your way though ;-)
 
(I'm pretty sure I've always turned off the aux outs, but I'll have to have another look)

You need to go into KONTAKT 5 output assignment to make your output config.
There are total 64 channels...

AH, Mystic - Now I  understood what you meant.  I did not realize you saved it with those being the default output channels - I thought this would need to be done every time it was loaded.

Cool - Maybe I will switch back from having that 2nd instance ok K 5 now.  I'll test it out and determine then.

Bob Bone

Jimbo 88


Just thought I'd throw my thoughts in here...I've done the multiple output thing with kontakt and had all the same issues everyone discribed.  Sometimes i think you have to set up the outputs in Kontakt, exit out and reload Sonar to get everything working correctly.  That might explain Curtsongs' thing where everything started working.

What I have started to do is hybrid of Bob Bone's system.  I load an instance of Kontakt for every section.  So All strings are in one instance of K5, brass in another etc.  All the sections will have there own audio track then.  Sometimes I'll add a second audio track/output and split the sections hi and low. Eventually i will have an instance of misc stuff,  solo instruments, percusion etc.  Then i will give every patch it's own audio output and need to re-label all the tracks as Bob Bone does.



   

What i described is how to setup kontakt by assigning the output channels for the vst correctly and save them as default such that there is no confusion on output routing.. Kontakt VST 16 outs will show stereo 1 to stereo 8 as the outputs...exactly what you would expect. How you use Kontakt from then on in terms of groupings and track assignments is unrelated to this :)
 
to me no matter how you want to use Kontakt..there is no downside to spending 5mins clearing up the output routing confusion :)