Stereo>mono messes your mix up, what do you do?

Personally, I'm not bothered about mono compatibility on my stuff, because the chances of anyone hearing any of it apart from me are extremely slim.

But if it does bother you, you should try building your mix at the very outset  IN MONO.

When everything is finished, then start panning stuff out L/R

Insert Channel Tools on your master bus and set it to Mono, then remove it when you're ready to pan.

tried to edit my post but mistakenly quoted it...


double post

sorry

I use a single mono speaker for checking mono compatibility. It is superior to switching your monitors into mono.  Mono means a single point source so you should also monitor it that way. It is actually a bit harder to monitor a mono mix on two speakers. (even though they are in mono) You are still hearing the sound from two sources and the sound will not arrive at your ears at exactly the same time (due to room reflections etc) so you are hearing a form of stereo. Also the image in the middle (of two speakers) is only a ghost but with a mono speaker it is very real. You need to sit directly in front of it too and up close. And please at low volume as well.

I sum the stereo output and feed a mono power amplifier and into a small speaker mounted in a small enclosure (Similar to Auratone concept)

I agree with Mike in that you don't have to create over wide mixes.  Its either a stereo sound that is going to be very wide (eg a wide synth pad for example) or a series of mono sounds that are panned wide. These are easier to get to sound OK in the mono speaker as well as your stereo monitors. Really wide pads etc can also work in mono but you have to make sure it's not phase tricks that are being used to create the width. And if it is, you need to alter the phase angle of one side so the mono sound won't collapse but the stereo will still sound good. If the width is being created in a genuine way then it will still sound great in mono and stereo.

I still believe that you can reach middle ground where a mix can sound very good on the mono speaker and still sound great in stereo on your main stereo monitors. You need to go back and forth to check how they are sounding on both. You have to make it easy to do so as well. For me I have got those two things on two separate monitor controls and it is just a matter of turning one down and the other up. But I must say I spend most of the time on the mono speaker.

Bristol has a good point though. I leave the panning to last. Just get the balance right first on the mono speaker. Once that is set you can pan then and you don't have to pan that far either before you will hear that something has moved quite a bit. People think you have to pan hard right or left before it is effective but I believe that to be wrong.

I am using Studio One a lot these days and one thing I have noticed is that as soon as you move a sound (even a small amount) away from centre it seems to sound like it has moved quite a lot. The 0db panning law seems silly to me. It will make centre panned sounds too loud. Try a different panning law and see how that works out. Studio One uses the -3db panning law. The -3db panning law is supposed to be the most natural.

If your mixes are are wildly different in mono or stereo then it means you are not mixing as well as you could be.  A great mix seems to satisfy both well. Check your mixes in mono on a single speaker and down low and you will be putting your mix through a very very hard test. The small adjustments you need to make to satisfy the mono speaker will not be so obvious on your main monitors up louder. But now you have satisfied both. I don't know how people survive without a small mono speaker. I absolutley could not. It is like mixing in the dark as far as I am concerned.

A mono button on your monitor controller will serve perfectly fine and is used by lots of very good mixers, and it's very convenient since you can flip back and forth quickly for A/B comparisons. You can reach over and press it any time you want to check whether something you are doing is causing problems.

And of course you can also just get up and walk into the next room and listen to it that way which is effectively mono, and more representative of any mono listening that real users will do, with a small system off to the side of the room or in another room and whatnot.

The mono issue is really just phase cancellation between the two sides. If you have different parts on either side it's a lot less likely. But the doubled left/right panning thing is so common that a lot of people have to worry about it.

Really, the things that will make your mix sound very wide can also be the same things that prevent mono problems, which is to avoid common content on both sides. So use different parts on each side or make sure that doubled parts have considerably different tone. So it's a win-win situation really. Also use the nudge trick if using doubled parts to get the two parts 15 or more ms apart in time, which will make them aparently wider and less likely to have mono concellation problems.

And also consider having less low end and leaving that for the center. Higher frequency content is more directional and will seem wider. That won't help mono compatibility necessarily, but in addition to the stuff above can make for a nice, wide sounding mix that is also nicely mono compatible.
Phase related tricks intended to create a super-wide sound probably almost by definition will be problematic in mono, right? In order to do what they do they pretty much have to have a significant amount of center cancellation.

Sven  mentions the mono systems he wants his mix to sound good on and they feature only one speaker so it is still best to check your mixes through one speaker, nothing compares to it. More great mix engineers use it.

The only reason why people may disagree with the mono speaker concept is because they don't have it and if they did they would never go back. I have got a mono switch too on my Yamaha digital mixer and it is nothing like checking the mix through the mono speaker.

Pan laws are vital. Because the moment you decide to pan a sound, the pan law will determine wether you have to change its level or not as well as its pan position. With the -3db pan law you don't have to be concerned about level so much because it offers a more even volume no matter where you are in the stereo field.

Walking around the room is an excellent way to check your mix too. That is not so much about mono compatibility but wether your mix is good or not and that is a great start. But sitting up close to the mono speaker at low volume simulates walking around the room at a distance very well too. And it provides much more detail at the same time.

Bristol_Jonesey

Insert Channel Tools on your master bus and set it to Mono, then remove it when you're ready to pan.

Why do you need Channel Tools to switch to mono?

With Channel Tools you also have the option of panning both channels to one speaker (either left or right) for "true mono", or panning both channels to center for "phantom center" mono. As Jeff mentioned above, they are not the same thing as you will get some phase cancellation with "phantom center".

I also wonder about the configuration of your monitors. If they are too far apart relative to your listening position when mixing you might end up boosting the stuff in the center.

I had mono once? I was in bed for a week...

Thanks for all the input folks! What a load of wisdom you've contributed!

I'm definitely gonna try mixing in mono until the last phase (no pun int'd) next time I do a real project. It makes sense to try and separate tracks freq-wise before you spread them around the stereo field.

Regarding panning laws:
Am I not right in assuming that a -3 dB center level would make the mix seem wider while working? Seems to me that it would invite being more conservative regarding panning and stereo FX, which in turn would make for better mono compatibility? 


DrewFX1> I assume it's my monitor configuration you're refering to. I have them set up in a perfect equilateral triangle with regards to my listening position, so that shouldn't be a problem. After mounting some 2" thick 3'x3' absorber panels on the wall behind them I've been happy with the stereo image i perceive (the low-end behaviour of the room is another story, though).

Kev999> The interleave button on the master bus is what I'm using to check in mono (in addition to checking on my litte mono radio connected to the headphone out jack at "mastering").

Sven

craigb


FWIW - I've got at least five various iPOD docks and none of them are mono - they're all stereo...  Actually, I can't think of anything that's only mono right now - let alone popular.

Smart phones are currently one of the most popular methods of playing and sharing music.  There are many stats collected on mobile use, here is just one source http://mobithinking.com/stats-corner/global-mobile-statistics-2011-all-quality-mobile-marketing-research-mobile-web-stats-su.  Please do a search on the page and read how much music was downloaded and listened to.
 
Most current smart phones are mono and the few that attempt stereo still produce sound from a small plastic box providing a mono result.  Most modern smart phones have stereo headphones.  But, smart phone users don't always carry headphones and you can't share the listening experience with those around you while wearing headphones. 
 
My main concern is the sharing aspect.  I personally have been in countless situations, such as as concerts, around school aged kids, at music stores, etc. where the sharing of music has been a person playing a tune from his/her smart phone.  For example, I was at a concert where I overheard how much a listener liked the band and so another person said, "Hey, if you like this, you will love this!", as he played something from a smart phone.
 
I believe the average user is well aware that a smart phone and a nice stereo don't provide the same quality.  None-the-less, I don't think a good sounding mono mix can be ignored.

Jeff Evans


I use a single mono speaker for checking mono compatibility. It is superior to switching your monitors into mono.  Mono means a single point source so you should also monitor it that way. It is actually a bit harder to monitor a mono mix on two speakers. (even though they are in mono) You are still hearing the sound from two sources and the sound will not arrive at your ears at exactly the same time (due to room reflections etc) so you are hearing a form of stereo. Also the image in the middle (of two speakers) is only a ghost but with a mono speaker it is very real. You need to sit directly in front of it too and up close. And please at low volume as well.
 

Jeff, what's your thought on monitoring a mono mix on headphones?  Would doing that reduce or eliminate the problem you're talking about?

Then again, one big advantage of the fact that we all have approximately zero chance of ever actually becoming successful musicians, and if we do we wouldn't make any money anyway so it's not worth it, is that we can make music for people who love music and consider listening to music an activity unto itself, and ignore people who treat it like a commodity and listen on a crap mono phone.

Not that that gets you out of all of this, since the same things that avoid this problem most likely contribute to a better result anyway. But I certainly wouldn't bother going out of my way to compromise my music on a nice reproduction system that belongs to a most likely paying customer, in order to make it sound better for someone who probably stole it if they listen to it at all.

Just a thought...

But one concern with that is it assumes you aren't going to change things after that original mix in mono. For really experienced people maybe that's true, but probably not so much for the rest of us. Using a mono button or mono speaker means you can continuously check the mono results at any time to see how it's doing, so you don't have to leave everything in the middle and deal with later panning changing things. Just pan stuff where you want and start mixing and check your mono compatibility periodically to make sure things are still well and do something about if if not.

Not that you can't start off with everything in the middle if you want, but it's pretty nice not to have to commit to that and never change anything once you start panning stuff, without worrying that you are undoing what you did.

It's not safe to assume that your mix isn't going to be played in mono.  Walked into a venue where I discovered one of my mixes being played on the house PA system during set up.  I immediately heard that I had problems with mono compatibility.  Luckily, the mix was not for a CD for sale or I likely wouldn't have sold many to those who heard it prior to the show.

Yes Mod Bod I have been caught out there too. Many PA live sound guys wont even run a CD player through 2 channels. (slack) They will sum the outputs of the CD player and use one channel only to save channels and that is where poor mono compatibility will show up.

Just remember that walking around your main room or even the adjoining room will give you a mono effect but it still won't show up any mono compatability issues because the channels have still not been summed. (unless you flick the mono switch and then walk around)

But walking around rooms is a great mix check though. The small mono speaker from a distance is a pretty severe test too.